Palestine

[Alph]

15 minutes ago, sage said:

As awful as those bombings were, the cost on both sides of continuing a conventional war would have been higher.

 

Is that not the kind of logic that any world leader could use to justify mass destruction to achieve the desired result? 

[maxjam]

15 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Can't that be seen as inciting violence? 

I posted that tweet because if you give The BBC et al the benefit of the doubt (I don't, they are quick to point out the errors of others with their Trusted News Network and BBC Verify, yet are slow to respond to their own errors and biases - but thats a topic for another thread) the rush for instant news without verification could lead to 'unjustified' escalation.

Secondly, the tweet was from a former Derby MP - so some relevance here has quite tellingly not been removed, as is typically the case when people post things in the heat of the moment.  It is absolutely inciting violence equivalent to the Nazi's in WW2, wanting to wipe an entire country including its people - most of whom no doubt just want to go about their daily lives in peace from the planet.  Shocking and disgusting. 

[Ram-Alf]

41 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Can't that be seen as inciting violence? 

Israel has not forfeited it's right to exist. I doubt most of the people supporting Palestine around the world think like that. What a lunatic. 

 

Williamson is so far left that if the earth was flat he'd fall off California

He was Derby City Council leader then Derby North MP for Labour, Labour elbowed him in 2019, Ran as an Independent for Derby North came last and lost his deposit. 

[Alph]

2 minutes ago, The Last Post said:

Williamson is so far left that if the earth was flat he'd fall off California

 

Not much to laugh about right now but thanks for that one! 🤣

[sage]

41 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Is that not the kind of logic that any world leader could use to justify mass destruction to achieve the desired result? 

As America's Island hopping campaign got into Japanese territory, the defender's tactics changed. They started using suicide bombers, kamikaze pilots and herding Japanese civilians off cliffs. This was before reaching the mainland, where they were issuing women and children with bamboo spears and suicide bombs.

They were faced with a difficult choice, one I'm glad I didn't have to make.

 

[sage]

5 minutes ago, The Last Post said:

Williamson is so far left that if the earth was flat he'd fall off California

He was Derby City Council leader then Derby North MP for Labour, Labour elbowed him in 2019, Ran as an Independent for Derby North came last and lost his deposit. 

When Corbyn was leader, Williamson went around moderate Labour MP constituencies, trying to get them de-selected.

 

[Ram-Alf]

14 hours ago, ramit said:

If this is the strike, then it is a large missile, much bigger than anything Hamas has

 

I like all on here get our information from the internet/TV, We're now into a War of words with he said she said and trying to convince  the world that the other side did it 🤷‍♂️

I'm on neither side...only those innocents who've already lost their lives and those in the future...especially those Children who've yet to experience growing up...on both sides 😒

[Stive Pesley]

16 minutes ago, The Last Post said:

Williamson is so far left that if the earth was flat he'd fall off California

He was Derby City Council leader then Derby North MP for Labour, Labour elbowed him in 2019, Ran as an Independent for Derby North came last and lost his deposit. 

I will never forgive him for what he did. He wasn't a bad MP for us here, until he suddenly became a militant Corbynite and decided that the Israel/Palestine issue was the hill he would die on. The party had no choice but to remove him, and then he insisted on standing as an Independent - which split the Labour vote and allowed Amanda Solloway - literally the worst, most ineffectual MP I've ever had - back in for a surprise second term, after she was resoundly booted out by the people of Derby North after her first woeful stint

For him to still be tweeting this garbage (and with a blue tick no less) is despicable

[Ram-Alf]

3 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I will never forgive him for what he did. He wasn't a bad MP for us here, until he suddenly became a militant Corbynite and decided that the Israel/Palestine issue was the hill he would die on. The party had no choice but to remove him, and then he insisted on standing as an Independent - which split the Labour vote and allowed Amanda Solloway - literally the worst, most ineffectual MP I've ever had - back in for a surprise second term, after she was resoundly booted out by the people of Derby North after her first woeful stint

For him to still be tweeting this garbage (and with a blue tick no less) is despicable

When Derby City council leader he didn't seem to be a "bad un" When he became an MP and Corbyn became Labour leader it looked to be the time for change...and boy did he change, As for Salloway PMSL...the old adage is "as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike" she's the perfect example as to why I've no time for MPs 😉

Our MP Heather Wheeler is just as bad, I wrote to her lambasting our then PM Boris the Johnson, Telling her he's the biggest piss take since Richard the 3rd said "I had nowt to do with the death of the Princes in the Tower", Her very very long reply was in essence "give him time he'll prove you wrong"...I'm still waiting for the letter from her to say I was right 👍😊 

[Alph]

24 minutes ago, sage said:

As America's Island hopping campaign got into Japanese territory, the defender's tactics changed. They started using suicide bombers, kamikaze pilots and herding Japanese civilians off cliffs. This was before reaching the mainland, where they were issuing women and children with bamboo spears and suicide bombs.

They were faced with a difficult choice, one I'm glad I didn't have to make.

 

I'm not very educated on WW2. I like my history much older than that. I should probably educate myself but it just seems such an extreme and a dangerous precedent.

Obviously Russia kept refering to it which was either an empty threat or they were justifying something horrific that was/is about to happen.

 

 

[sage]

2 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I'm not very educated on WW2. I like my history much older than that. I should probably educate myself but it just seems such an extreme and a dangerous precedent.

Obviously Russia kept refering to it which was either an empty threat or they were justifying something horrific that was/is about to happen.

 

 

Part of the equation in deciding to use the atomic bomb was a) it was a shot across the bows of Russia as the war was ending and b) Russia would have invaded Japan had the war go on much longer, increasing their sphere of influence.

These weren't the main reasons, but possibly the clincher in a difficult situation.

 

[ariotofmyown]

8 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I'm not very educated on WW2. I like my history much older than that. I should probably educate myself but it just seems such an extreme and a dangerous precedent.

Obviously Russia kept refering to it which was either an empty threat or they were justifying something horrific that was/is about to happen.

 

 

A few years back, I listened to the 35 hours of Antony's Beevor's History of the 2nd World War.

After so much death, brutality and mass rapes, the nukes almost came as a blessed relief.

The war in Western Europe: Dunkirk, D-day, The Blitz, The Battle of Britain etc, was pretty much light entertainment relative to what happened in other parts of the world.

Edited October 18, 2023 by ariotofmyown

[sage]

2 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

A few years back, I listened to the 35 hours of Antony's Beevor's History of the 2nd World War.

After so much death, brutality and mass rapes, the nukes almost came as a blessed relief.

The war in Western Europe: Dunkirk, D-day, The Blitz, The Battle of Britain etc, was pretty much light entertainment relative to what happened in other parts of the world.

There is a YouTube show called WW2 Week by Week. 25 mins for every week of the war.

It's currently on Oct 1944, but if you watch from the start and have 2 hours free a week, it only takes a year to complete it 🙂

[Mostyn6]

in terms of war, having watched a lot of after-the-fact documentaries, and unsealing of classified information etc, any war that the Yanks are involved in in the last 60-70years, there appears to have been an ulterior-motive and they are (in my opinion) on the wrong side of Good vs Evil.

https://images.app.goo.gl/UwwvqNLHQU55hJ9n9

 

 

[Alph]

43 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

in terms of war, having watched a lot of after-the-fact documentaries, and unsealing of classified information etc, any war that the Yanks are involved in in the last 60-70years, there appears to have been an ulterior-motive and they are (in my opinion) on the wrong side of Good vs Evil.

https://images.app.goo.gl/UwwvqNLHQU55hJ9n9

 

 

Pretty harsh mate to call them evil! 

Perhaps imperialist is more suitable. 

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

A few years back, I listened to the 35 hours of Antony's Beevor's History of the 2nd World War.

After so much death, brutality and mass rapes, the nukes almost came as a blessed relief.

The war in Western Europe: Dunkirk, D-day, The Blitz, The Battle of Britain etc, was pretty much light entertainment relative to what happened in other parts of the world.

I watch all things WW2 and WW1 as I had my Mother to thank for that...If you ever get the opportunity...watch..."The Savage Peace" It was on PBS concerning what happened to Germans once peace was declared...especially in Sudetenland...you'll need a strong stomach 😪

[Highgate]

2 hours ago, sage said:

As awful as those bombings were, the cost on both sides of continuing a conventional war would have been higher.

Is that necessarily the case? It certainly seems to be the received wisdom on the subject, but there are plenty of people who disagree. Certainly it seems that there were many senior figures in the American military at the time who didn't think dropping the bombs was necessary at all.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-08-05/hiroshima-anniversary-japan-atomic-bombs

Could simple revenge have had something to do with it too after all the pain that Japan had caused the US and others, as well as showing Stalin what weapons the US now had? Given that one of the bombs dropped was plutonium and the other uranium, there was a whiff of weapons testing about the attacks also.

Although obviously the good guys, the allies did commit many war crimes during WWII, it's just that the victors tend not to put themselves on trial in afterwards, not the guys at the top anyway. 

It must be very difficult after atrocities have been committed against you by an enemy to behave ethically during a war.  That's the fear now, while though those who attacked Israeli civilians are clearly enemies and a legitimate target for the IDF, that Israel's response will be completely disproportionate (as well as counter-productive in the long run), and the Palestinian civilians will suffer enormously once more...

[Mostyn6]

13 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Pretty harsh mate to call them evil! 

Perhaps imperialist is more suitable. 

the decision-makers and war-mongers are just that. They've planned to go to war with every nation not in the world banking system since the early 70s and have invaded each one systematically since. They've planned to undermine all the oil-rich countries they can, and have done so. They've got army bases everywhere, with no justification.

[Ram-Alf]

19 minutes ago, Highgate said:

 

 

Could simple revenge have had something to do with it too after all the pain that Japan had caused the US and others, as well as showing Stalin what weapons the US now had? Given that one of the bombs dropped was plutonium and the other uranium, there was a whiff of weapons testing about the attacks also.

 

Vyacheslav Molotov was invited to a meeting with President Truman before the 2 nukes hit Japan, And Truman told him that the USA had a bomb that would inflict tremendous damage on mankind, Truman didn't get the response he was hoping, Molotov just nodded and left the room 

[Stive Pesley]

24 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Could simple revenge have had something to do with it too after all the pain that Japan had caused the US and others, as well as showing Stalin what weapons the US now had? Given that one of the bombs dropped was plutonium and the other uranium, there was a whiff of weapons testing about the attacks also.

It's the fact they felt the need to drop a second bomb that I can never fathom.