Who enjoys Warne's football poll?

[Walkley Ram]

7 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Good question, if we don’t get promoted this season then we are looking at a missed £10m plus a natural drop off in attendances. It could be around £12-15m if we aren’t promoted this season, in which is the worst third tier in living memory, it suddenly becomes harder if Boro, Swansea and Wednesday come down.

Don't belittle this league, there are some massive teams above us. Show some respect to Lincoln, Exeter and Cambridge.

Brb, gonna go top myself.

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, Ambitious said:

It needs to be said that we are paying people footballers wages, £5-10k a week, whereas teams in this league pay about the same as what a good car salesmen earns - £1.5-2k a week. The disparity is massive. Not in pound and pence, maybe, but definitely in marginality. 

Is this something you've researched or just a throwaway comment?

11 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Good question, if we don’t get promoted this season then we are looking at a missed £10m plus a natural drop off in attendances. It could be around £12-15m if we aren’t promoted this season, in which is the worst third tier in living memory, it suddenly becomes harder if Boro, Swansea and Wednesday come down.

Worst third tier in living memory, how many third tier games did you ever watch before Derby played in it out of interest?

[Guest]

Ever since Warne came to the club, the question has been asked whether or not he will ever be able to adapt a to a possession and passing game and abandon his concentration on the more direct pressing game that he brought with him from Rotherham that has become known as Warne-ball or hoof-ball on here. The question is particularly pertinent to what happens if he gets us back to the Championship. If he has a budget to bring in better players who can play a possession game more akin to what we saw with Mac1, would he be able to implement it? I think the majority of us see that as being the way to most effectively challenge for promotion to the Premier League and then develop a team that might survive there.

Going through this thread today, we have identified that the academy continues to play a possession-passing game, contrary to how the first team is set up now. This will mean if Warne continues down this route, as players step up from the academy, if they are given the chance, to win a place under Warne in the first team, overnight they would have to adapt to a system that is completely alien to them and contrary to what they have learned in their football education in the academy. They will all face the difficulties that Knight, Bird, Sibley, Thompson and maybe even Cashin and some of the older players, particularly Forsyth, have to face in coming to terms with Warne's method.It is not what they have been brought up on.

It cannot be right that the head coach should be so one-dimensional that the whole football philosophy of the club has to be built to accommodate his coaching limitations. He should have a sufficient understanding of football to be able to formulate alternative playing systems to best suit the abilities of the players at his disposal.

It is becoming more apparent with every passing week that Paul Warne can't do that because he is limited in his coaching ways. I think that at some stage David Clowes is going to have to consider if he needs to change the course of his long-term project.

[RoyMac5]

It's probably just my age, but when posters put there team selections on the game threads most of the time I can't remember who it is that they've chosen to leave out. Someone normally has to post 'but what about...' mostly there's no-one that has to start bar maybe Wildsmith. Most of the time it's difficult to know where to play lots of the players, not just if they should play.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

5 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

What you say and what Warnes says is a real conundrum for me at the moment. I watch all of the first team games and I go to watch the academy teams when I can. I have been going to the academy for the past eight years and during that time I have enjoyed seeing all of the age groups from U9 through to U21. The academy approach has always been to play possession based passing football and that has not changed at all so far. Those players who are now scholars but have been with the academy since they were nine or more will confirm that too. The possession-passing approach, playing out from the back, is thematic throughout all of the academies in PL2. I hate to think of the affect upon the academy sides if there was a sudden switch to Warne-ball. I think the retention of our Category 1 status could be in jeopardy. Just on that, the younger age groups, below U16, played most of their games against other PL2 clubs in friendly games, rather than a competitive league. But occasionally they played against School of Excellence from below PL2. A lot of these teams from clubs such as Chesterfield, Barnsley, Scunthorpe, Mansfield and not forgetting Rotherham were made up of lads who were generally physically taller than our boys; size was clearly an important factor in their recruitment whereas ability on the ball was more of a factor with the PL2 clubs. Those teams generally played a much more direct game with an emphasis on long-ball as opposed to possession and passing. The outcome was normally Derby handed out some fearful thrashings to these physically bigger boys, regularly hitting 10 goals or more, because they were were able to retain much more possession and it was usually one-way traffic in Derby's favour.

So all I can say is that at the moment we are unusual for an academy in as much as the academy sides are not replicating the style of play adopted by the first-team. As for what is said by Warne and the academy coaches in their 'weekly meetings,' only they know. But I hope you might understand that I don't want the academy turning into 'a mini-Warne type player factory.' Far from it, watching the U18s yesterday morning was far more pleasing on the eye than watching the first team in the afternoon.

Maybe a conflict with the academy approach might lead to Warne's downfall? We'll see. 

Agree 100%

I'm lucky enough to watch quite a few academy games and they are exactly as you describe.

There's no way the current set up is going to work, none whatsoever.

When Bucko said his job was to get players ready for the first team, I think he knows the style of football the academy plays isn't what Warne wants.

[Ghost of Clough]

8 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

That's one thing I found strange from the fans forum. Warne said he will select an academy player if he can play the way he wants. But shouldn't the academy and first team play the same style? The club should have one style of play running right through it so that players and managers can easily be replaced without disrupting the whole team. 

The club has spent the last 10 years heavily investing in developing technical players. When Clowes took over, there was an entire review on our academy.

The outcome of that probably highlighted us not developing rounded players (players who are more adaptable and suit various play styles). I can therefore understand a change in our development programme.

However, Warne has done nothing to convince me that he will ever give our academy players a serious runout in the first team. From not giving game tiem to young first team players, not taking a serious interest in how the U18s/U21s are doing (didn't even know the score from a couple hours earlier), hoping not to be quizzed on names, and the number of debuts given to academy players.

[Ghost of Clough]

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Is this something you've researched or just a throwaway comment?

Worst third tier in living memory, how many third tier games did you ever watch before Derby played in it out of interest?

Burton, who're roughly midtable for wages, pay an average of less than £2.5k per week.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

12 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The club has spent the last 10 years heavily investing in developing technical players. When Clowes took over, there was an entire review on our academy.

The outcome of that probably highlighted us not developing rounded players (players who are more adaptable and suit various play styles). I can therefore understand a change in our development programme.

However, Warne has done nothing to convince me that he will ever give our academy players a serious runout in the first team. From not giving game tiem to young first team players, not taking a serious interest in how the U18s/U21s are doing (didn't even know the score from a couple hours earlier), hoping not to be quizzed on names, and the number of debuts given to academy players.

Or the players name that had just scored 3 goals - if that was me who'd just scored I'd be asking myself what's the point. 

The only players he mentioned in that U21 game was his two first team players. And I'd guess that's the only reason he went to watch the game.

I'm pretty sure he was asked about watching games and he said he watches the U21s on a Saturday just before they leave the training ground to get the Pride Park for the game. That's not the 21's, that's the 18's. 

I've watched loads of 18's games on a Saturday and the only people from the first team who come to watch are some of the players. Never have I seen Warne - he's too busy running around Oakwood to get his 5K run in. 

[Ram-Alf]

On 16/09/2023 at 20:45, Brailsford Ram said:

. I'm not sure how much the players believe in him. And if you want to watch entertaining football, I think you can forget that while he is here because he and his coaches simply don't know how to deliver that. 

That's a sad indictment on our professional coaches at DCFC, One dimensional football will get you either the sack or ridiculed for lack of knowledge about the game, There's enough posters on here that talk a very good game who know what the best formation is, Where to play players, How to manage a game, When to make a substitute, But with this 7 league games even the ones we've won have come with a fare amount of criticism.

Our available fit players are getting thinner and thinner, Is this down to bad luck(heaven knows we've had a lifetimes full)or are they being worked to hard in training and come a match day the players aren't to enthused?

   

[angieram]

28 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The club has spent the last 10 years heavily investing in developing technical players. When Clowes took over, there was an entire review on our academy.

The outcome of that probably highlighted us not developing rounded players (players who are more adaptable and suit various play styles). I can therefore understand a change in our development programme.

However, Warne has done nothing to convince me that he will ever give our academy players a serious runout in the first team. From not giving game tiem to young first team players, not taking a serious interest in how the U18s/U21s are doing (didn't even know the score from a couple hours earlier), hoping not to be quizzed on names, and the number of debuts given to academy players.

This I can't understand. It's his job and that should be his sole focus in working hours. There is no attention to detail. 

I worry about what he's doing instead of this stuff.

[BondJovi]

34 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The club has spent the last 10 years heavily investing in developing technical players. When Clowes took over, there was an entire review on our academy.

The outcome of that probably highlighted us not developing rounded players (players who are more adaptable and suit various play styles). I can therefore understand a change in our development programme.

However, Warne has done nothing to convince me that he will ever give our academy players a serious runout in the first team. From not giving game tiem to young first team players, not taking a serious interest in how the U18s/U21s are doing (didn't even know the score from a couple hours earlier), hoping not to be quizzed on names, and the number of debuts given to academy players.

I know Cocu has his haters, but I loved his willingness to give the younger players a go. On occaision he chose a youngster to bring on over an experienced player, and not always in easy situations. I cannot see Warne doing that. Players in the U18s/ U21s need to see that there is a path.  I don't understand the reluctance to use something which could save us a lot of cash and potentially generate a lot. I haven't understood that for a lot of Derby managers. I am not entirely convinced Warne takes that side of the club seriously. Bless him.

[Ghost of Clough]

20 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Or the players name that had just scored 3 goals - if that was me who'd just scored I'd be asking myself what's the point. 

The only players he mentioned in that U21 game was his two first team players. And I'd guess that's the only reason he went to watch the game.

I'm pretty sure he was asked about watching games and he said he watches the U21s on a Saturday just before they leave the training ground to get the Pride Park for the game. That's not the 21's, that's the 18's. 

I've watched loads of 18's games on a Saturday and the only people from the first team who come to watch are some of the players. Never have I seen Warne - he's too busy running around Oakwood to get his 5K run in. 

The U21s played on a Saturday one last year - vs Villa in October.

It was me who requested a few questions on the academy via email. Not to catch Warne out, but in the hope of easing some of the concerns I had. Those questions related to watching U18/21 games, what's he doing to get the youngsters into the first team, and should more be used last season to avoid burn out.

As a reminder of what was said, these are the notes I made from the Fan Forum:

Quote

Warne and Pearce bother referenced 2-3 years to get the academy up to speed again. There's a focus on signing 15 year olds as U21 signings are expensive.

Warne made a joke about not wanting to be quizzed on who the academy players are (faces on a wall and naming them). This has irked me, as he should make it his job to know every single one of the U18s and U21s, so he knows who's likely to get through into the first team. He did however say he wants as many players to come through the academy into the first team. Either the club generates cash from sales or they form part of thr first team. In both cases that's more budget which can be put towards the rest of the squad. Suggestions that not many academy players were involved in training last season, but a lot more already this season. Buxton tells him a lot about where U18 and U21 are in their development. I got the feeling Warne really likes DBrown, so we should see him get opportunities this season.

Warne watches U21 and U18 games, (but didn't get the score right for the U21s earlier that day). Tries to watch the first half of U21 games on Saturdays prior to first team games.

How can someone who doesn't know which age group he's watching, what the scores were, and who the players are, be the man to judge if these youngsters should or shouldn't be given first team games?

[angieram]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The U21s played on a Saturday one last year - vs Villa in October.

It was me who requested a few questions on the academy via email. Not to catch Warne out, but in the hope of easing some of the concerns I had. Those questions related to watching U18/21 games, what's he doing to get the youngsters into the first team, and should more be used last season to avoid burn out.

As a reminder of what was said, these are the notes I made from the Fan Forum:

How can someone who doesn't know which age group he's watching, what the scores were, and who the players are, be the man to judge if these youngsters should or shouldn't be given first team games?

I thought those questions had your name all over them! 

We're you there?

[Ghost of Clough]

6 minutes ago, angieram said:

I thought those questions had your name all over them! 

We're you there?

I didnt realise it was happening until it was too late. My wife probably wouldn't have let me go anyway 😂

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

11 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The U21s played on a Saturday one last year - vs Villa in October.

It was me who requested a few questions on the academy via email. Not to catch Warne out, but in the hope of easing some of the concerns I had. Those questions related to watching U18/21 games, what's he doing to get the youngsters into the first team, and should more be used last season to avoid burn out.

As a reminder of what was said, these are the notes I made from the Fan Forum:

How can someone who doesn't know which age group he's watching, what the scores were, and who the players are, be the man to judge if these youngsters should or shouldn't be given first team games?

This is very worrying.

For both the short and long term future of the club, PW needs to be taken out of the club sharpish. This isn't an overreaction, this really does need to happen asap. 

[G STAR RAM]

9 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The U21s played on a Saturday one last year - vs Villa in October.

It was me who requested a few questions on the academy via email. Not to catch Warne out, but in the hope of easing some of the concerns I had. Those questions related to watching U18/21 games, what's he doing to get the youngsters into the first team, and should more be used last season to avoid burn out.

As a reminder of what was said, these are the notes I made from the Fan Forum:

How can someone who doesn't know which age group he's watching, what the scores were, and who the players are, be the man to judge if these youngsters should or shouldn't be given first team games?

Its called delegation and why he has, can't remember if he said daily or weekly, meetings with Jake Buxton.

How do you know that Buxton hasn't told him that none of the players are ready for the first team yet?

[Anag Ram]

I think Warne would benefit from a bit more interaction with the fans. If he came out and admitted things aren’t working as he would like.

Please be patient, I know you have spent your hard-earned money to be entertained etc.

The players have had amazing support from the fans. Who else would get close to 30,000 watching this turgid nonsense?

An acknowledgment of our sacrifice would be nice. At the moment I feel it’s all about his struggle, not ours.

[ollycutts1982]

I just don’t see what we are trying to do or how we are trying to play. It’s a painful watch at the minute. We haven’t got any player to get us out our seats. In football you are not entitled to anything and tend to get what you deserve. Us fans turn out in numbers and we do deserve better. I just wonder how long it will be before attendances start to drop to the lower 20’s. There doesn’t seem to be any glimmers of hope. In my eyes we were lucky to get a point against Pompey. Trying to be funny and witty in interviews is all well and good when you’re doing well but becomes tiresome and boring when the style is dire. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by ollycutts1982

[YouRams]

Although I'm not enjoying the football at the moment I do think PW has been very unlucky. He was clearly told he had a bigger budget in the transfer window before something happened? Then he seemed very reliant on Ward and Bird who both went out injured, plus all the other injuries. Sonny Bradley on paper looked one of the best signings in the division and hasn't yet settled, the Embleton signing showed how far down the list of targets we were, he looked like he'd just been captured by the Taliban.

People are calling for this passing football yet we get in a decent position up the field and they can't complete a 2 yard pass to each other, who and what could actually change what we have right now? 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Its called delegation and why he has, can't remember if he said daily or weekly, meetings with Jake Buxton.

How do you know that Buxton hasn't told him that none of the players are ready for the first team yet?

That's even worse - if he's relying on the judgement of others to decide if players make his matchday squad or not.

The only person making that choice should be Warne, and he didn't even know the name of the hattrick scorer a few hours earlier.