Who enjoys Warne's football poll?

[hintonsboots]

7 minutes ago, The_Sheriff said:

Scored every single league game this season

Russell Brand ?

[Barney1991]

I will always go to games but this season is a struggle to get the motivation to go tbh. It’s like being invited to a relatives party you don’t like and you need to show your face for a bit. To not have a single shot on target since Peterborough apart from 2 penalties is criminal. 
 

what the hell he has done in 2 weeks training is beyond me. In fact we might aswell scrap training because all we are doing is getting players injured and practicing kicking the ball 60 yards.

[May Contain Nuts]

11 minutes ago, The_Sheriff said:

Scored every single league game this season

 

 

[eddielewis]

41 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

That's one thing I found strange from the fans forum. Warne said he will select an academy player if he can play the way he wants. But shouldn't the academy and first team play the same style? The club should have one style of play running right through it so that players and managers can easily be replaced without disrupting the whole team. 

Exactly I mentioned this a couple weeks ago. Before we hired Warne the first footballing thing Clowes should have done was figure out what style of football should this club adopt and what will fans enjoy and then hired a manager who fits that or a director of football to implement this from a wider club standpoint so therefore we are impenetrable from the manager merry go round. Currently we have a plan in which if Warne goes by sacking or if he gets snatched by being successful (if pig's fly!) then what? What direction do we go next?

It's so counter-intuitive to not have every single age group playing the same formation because you have potentially a talent in the youth who could never make his breakthrough because the first teams tactic's are so alien to them. Max Bird is an early example. He's been moulded by playing 4-3-3 learning off Thorne/Huddlestone. From what i've seen of the Under 21 and 18's they both still playing 4-2-3-1. How are we ever going to find out if there is a wing back in the youth for Warne's 5-3-2 if that's the case.

Arguably i think the majority of us enjoy a possession based 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 because that's what we've been used to over the last 10 years that's why Warne's football is so grating to a lot of us because we have not been used to this style of play. You could say patience and time could help it but I just see clear gaps in the future progression of the club on the pitch.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by eddielewis

[oldtimeram]

Something has got to change.  Either Warne admits his style is not working and changes things, or we carry on into mediocrity with football that is better than any sleeping pill can achieve

[Ambitious]

16 hours ago, DCFC1388 said:

Have we really even seen Warne's football here yet?

Last season he tried the 352 but with the squad he had & inuyries went to a 4231 before back to a 352 for the last set of games.

This season is similar, started 352 but injuries has meant back to a 4231.

We havent had the fast paced, high intensity & constant press that Warne openly states he wants. Maybe we will see it when players are back fit.

But as it stands I think we're just trying to do what we can with what we actually have fit.

Warne’s style is predicated on chaos - catching the opposition out of shape and moving the ball forward quickly. There isn’t much more to it. 

The reason we look so out of sorts at times is that there just isn’t a controlled progression to our play, it’s zero to a hundred. Individualised system. We beat bad teams, we struggle against organised teams. We lack simple game management, anyone who would slow the tempo is told essentially not to do it. They play to the manager’s beat. 

Warne hasn’t helped himself with recruitment. We haven’t signed players suited to percentage football, we’ve carried on signing technical players but we don’t play the ball to feet - they are categorically told to pass into space, not to feet. I get the feeling the players are a little disillusioned with how the club is run, both from coaching point of view and from the top down. How many of our out of contract players are going to want to stick around? Fans too are a little disillusioned. I don’t think the approach/mindset is much different to that under Mel Morris, but just run on a sustainable budget. 

It needs to be said that we are paying people footballers wages, £5-10k a week, whereas teams in this league pay about the same as what a good car salesmen earns - £1.5-2k a week. The disparity is massive. Not in pound and pence, maybe, but definitely in marginality. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Ambitious

[Barney1991]

1 hour ago, oldtimeram said:

Something has got to change.  Either Warne admits his style is not working and changes things, or we carry on into mediocrity with football that is better than any sleeping pill can achieve

No wonder he leaves and Rotherham stay up. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

You want to give Warne time to turn the Academy into a mini-Warne type player factory? Because that is what is happening, they have weekly meetings and as Warne commented he'll play Academy players when they play how he wants, oh and when they are fit enough.

That's not I want to see from our Academy let alone our first team.

What you say and what Warnes says is a real conundrum for me at the moment. I watch all of the first team games and I go to watch the academy teams when I can. I have been going to the academy for the past eight years and during that time I have enjoyed seeing all of the age groups from U9 through to U21. The academy approach has always been to play possession based passing football and that has not changed at all so far. Those players who are now scholars but have been with the academy since they were nine or more will confirm that too. The possession-passing approach, playing out from the back, is thematic throughout all of the academies in PL2. I hate to think of the affect upon the academy sides if there was a sudden switch to Warne-ball. I think the retention of our Category 1 status could be in jeopardy. Just on that, the younger age groups, below U16, played most of their games against other PL2 clubs in friendly games, rather than a competitive league. But occasionally they played against School of Excellence from below PL2. A lot of these teams from clubs such as Chesterfield, Barnsley, Scunthorpe, Mansfield and not forgetting Rotherham were made up of lads who were generally physically taller than our boys; size was clearly an important factor in their recruitment whereas ability on the ball was more of a factor with the PL2 clubs. Those teams generally played a much more direct game with an emphasis on long-ball as opposed to possession and passing. The outcome was normally Derby handed out some fearful thrashings to these physically bigger boys, regularly hitting 10 goals or more, because they were were able to retain much more possession and it was usually one-way traffic in Derby's favour.

So all I can say is that at the moment we are unusual for an academy in as much as the academy sides are not replicating the style of play adopted by the first-team. As for what is said by Warne and the academy coaches in their 'weekly meetings,' only they know. But I hope you might understand that I don't want the academy turning into 'a mini-Warne type player factory.' Far from it, watching the U18s yesterday morning was far more pleasing on the eye than watching the first team in the afternoon.

Maybe a conflict with the academy approach might lead to Warne's downfall? We'll see. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Brailsford Ram

[vonwright]

13 hours ago, Rich3478 said:

Was going to say, he’s had a year! How many managers get that long. And people still want to say is not his team yet. 

I'm also quite interested, out of the many players he did bring in this summer, which ones epitomise the 'fast, pressing' game he apparently wants to play? Because it seems to me he brought in quite a lot of older, slower, not-especially-mobile players? And pretty much ignored our midfield (which was designed for passing, not pressing) until signing an unknown (Fornah) at the last minute? What about pressing from the front? Was Washington the magic forward who was going to unlock this bold new strategy? Or was it the 33-year-old Martyn Waghorn?

It's one thing saying we need more time to finish the job, but at the moment I can barely see what he's started. 

[Ambitious]

I’d also add that you can see the inner workings of some managers that just haven’t had enough time or a difficult situation: Cocu was one of them. I don’t see that with Warne. He isn’t a manager that is coaching his game on development. You can see why he worked on a Steve Evans coaching staff for so many years. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Ambitious

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

52 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Warne’s style is predicated on chaos - catching the opposition out of shape and moving the ball forward quickly. There isn’t much more to it. 

The reason we look so out of sorts at times is that there just isn’t a controlled progression to our play, it’s zero to a hundred. Individualised system. We beat bad teams, we struggle against organised teams. We lack simple game management, anyone who would slow the tempo is told essentially not to do it. They play to the manager’s beat. 

Warne hasn’t helped himself with recruitment. We haven’t signed players suited to percentage football, we’ve carried on signing technical players but we don’t play the ball to feet - they are categorically told to pass into space, not to feet. I get the feeling the players are a little disillusioned with how the club is run, both from coaching point of view and from the top down. How many of our out of contract players are going to want to stick around? Fans too are a little disillusioned. I don’t think the approach/mindset is much different to that under Mel Morris, but just run on a sustainable budget. 

It needs to be said that we are paying people footballers wages, £5-10k a week, whereas teams in this league pay about the same as what a good car salesmen earns - £1.5-2k a week. The disparity is massive. Not in pound and pence, maybe, but definitely in marginality. 

Well said 👍🏻

[hintonsboots]

14 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

What you say and what Warnes says is a real conundrum for me at the moment. I watch all of the first team games and I go to watch the academy teams when I can. I have been going to the academy for the past eight years and during that time I have enjoyed seeing all of the age groups from U9 through to U21. The academy approach has always been to play possession based passing football and that has not changed at all so far. Those players who are now scholars but have been with the academy since they were nine or more will confirm that too. The possession-passing approach, playing out from the back, is thematic throughout all of the academies in PL2. I hate to think of the affect upon the academy sides if there was a sudden switch to Warne-ball. I think the retention of our Category 1 status could be in jeopardy. Just on that, the younger age groups, below U16, played most of their games against other PL2 clubs in friendly games, rather than a competitive league. But occasionally they played against School of Excellence from below PL2. A lot of these teams from clubs such as Chesterfield, Barnsley, Scunthorpe, Mansfield and not forgetting Rotherham were made up of lads who were generally physically taller than our boys; size was clearly an important factor in their recruitment whereas ability on the ball was more of a factor with the PL2 clubs. Those teams generally played a much more direct game with an emphasis on long-ball as opposed to possession and passing. The outcome was normally Derby handed out some fearful thrashings to these physically bigger boys, regularly hitting 10 goals or more, because they were were able to retain much more possession and it was usually one-way traffic in Derby's favour.

So all I can say is that at the moment we are unusual for an academy in as much as the academy sides are not replicating the style of play adopted by the first-team. As for what is said by Warne and the academy coaches in their 'weekly meetings,' only they know. But I hope you might understand that I don't want the academy turning into 'a mini-Warne type player factory.' Far from it, watching the U18s yesterday morning was far more pleasing on the eye than watching the first team in the afternoon.

Maybe a conflict with the academy approach might lead to Warne's downfall? We'll see. 

Excellent post. It appears then, that Warne has been appointed with the brief to get us back into the Championship and not develop academy players to increase their value and sell on. It’s seems there is a massive disconnect between academy and first team, in that each are being coached to play in a different style. It doesn’t make sense at all if true.

[Rich3478]

9 minutes ago, vonwright said:

I'm also quite interested, out of the many players he did bring in this summer, which ones epitomise the 'fast, pressing' game he apparently wants to play? Because it seems to me he brought in quite a lot of older, slower, not-especially-mobile players? And pretty much ignored our midfield (which was designed for passing, not pressing) until signing an unknown (Fornah) at the last minute? What about pressing from the front? Was Washington the magic forward who was going to unlock this bold new strategy? Or was it the 33-year-old Martyn Waghorn?

It's one thing saying we need more time to finish the job, but at the moment I can barely see what he's started. 

Yeah it’s hard to see what the plan is, I was initially worried would be hoofball and smacking it up to big guys up top for second balls. It’s not that though. 
 

Think is get it forward and wide pretty quickly, and cross it as soon as we can. But we don’t really have people to cross to. Our wingbacks are pretty slow so ended up crossing from pretty deep and easy to defend.

Washington looking very underwhelming so far, waghorn a pleasant surprise with how well has fitted it.

[Shuff264]

2 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

That's one thing I found strange from the fans forum. Warne said he will select an academy player if he can play the way he wants. But shouldn't the academy and first team play the same style? The club should have one style of play running right through it so that players and managers can easily be replaced without disrupting the whole team. 

That's another issue with having warne as manager, clubs higher up the league want to play football and want to sign players that they know can do that.

We want the academy to produce players that can play football in the right way and so are attractive to higher level clubs to pay big money for.

Warneball doesn't do this, there's no point in the academy producing good footballers if they are just going to be wasted by Warne.

Peterborough always had a knack for making strikers look great by playing attacking football, so they could sell them off the back of a high scoring season.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

Excellent post. It appears then, that Warne has been appointed with the brief to get us back into the Championship and not develop academy players to increase their value and sell on. It’s seems there is a massive disconnect between academy and first team, in that each are being coached to play in a different style. It doesn’t make sense at all if true.

Or don't the academy coaches have a clue on how to play Warne-ball? I could buy into that theory 😂.

[hintonsboots]

3 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Or don't the academy coaches have a clue on how to play Warne-ball? I could buy into that theory 😂.

Difficult to coach I imagine. You can see that with the confusion amongst the first team squad. I think James Collins said he was told to stay up there, run around and make a nuisance of himself and score( which he did from the spot ). Can’t imagine De Zerbi giving out such highly technical instructions.

[TINMANTED]

19 hours ago, Gerry Daly said:

Maybe we can't afford to not sack him. I hated it today

It's more a question of can we afford to keep him

[Gerry Daly]

40 minutes ago, TINMANTED said:

It's more a question of can we afford to keep him

lol thats the same thing

[Ambitious]

42 minutes ago, TINMANTED said:

It's more a question of can we afford to keep him

Good question, if we don’t get promoted this season then we are looking at a missed £10m plus a natural drop off in attendances. It could be around £12-15m if we aren’t promoted this season, in which is the worst third tier in living memory, it suddenly becomes harder if Boro, Swansea and Wednesday come down.

[BramcoteRam84]

The football is grim right now. No question. It’s the worst it’s been since Warne has taken charge. However I would also say it’s a poor league proven yesterday by Pompey who are unbeaten this season and fancied by some for promotion. They were also shocking. 

The only mitigation you can argue for Warne is we have a lot of injuries, a good few that are freak or impact injuries. The players he brought in haven’t played for a while and are still not fit. Fornah looks promising, Embleton isn’t fit yet, Wilson Barkhuizen and Sibley weren’t fit enough to start. Barkhuizen in particular only looked about 60% fit yesterday. We had no choice but to play Mendez who had a poor game, unsurprising given the amount of travelling he’s had to do this week. If Warne was saying we played well I’d be more concerned. We’re not playing how he wants to play, we’re not playing as well as we did in that unbeaten run last season. But fact is right now we are massively under strength and IMO the ceiling of this team is higher than what is currently being shown. That’s what I’m clinging to. 

We have a decent run of fixtures coming up, with more match fitness for the new signings, players like Bird to come back I would expect things to improve. I think Vale away at the end of November will be the time to make a call if one is going to be made. If the football is still as bad and we’re not threatening the playoffs by then, I’ll be moving into the Warne out camp. But right now is still too early for the reasons I highlight above. We need his players to get fit and see where we’re at.