Is expectation too high .

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

22 minutes ago, Curtains said:

That’s your prerogative.

I enjoyed the away games at Burton and Peterborough they were brilliant days out. .

Still had a good time in Bolton but didn’t enjoy the result .

I don’t care about anything other than the result sorry. 

I think we’re going round in circles so this is the last thing I’ll say, I want to watch a football team that I can feel proud of and optimistic about, I was really flat after the Fleetwood game because I just found nothing in that performance to make me look forward to watching the next game. I hated the football we played under Rowett but at least I knew what his tactics were and what his gameplan was, I didn’t like it, but I understood it, I genuinely don’t see what Warne is trying to do, talks up a big pressing athletic game but signs loads of ageing players and is reluctant to give our young talent a go. I remember a game away at Bristol under Cocu where we lost 3-2 having been 3-0 down but we genuinely played really well throughout the game and took the game to Bristol whilst having some young players on the pitch and Bird who’d just broken through, we dominated the ball and had plenty of shots, yet I see how we play now even when we win sometimes and feel completely flat about what I’m watching because there’s no real end goal to it, just complete short termism from most of the recruitment to the team selection to the way we set out on the pitch, I genuinely can’t even tell our formation most of the time.

[Ambitious]

You can’t sign 11 players with a combined 1000 matches at a higher level and complain about the expectation being too high. You can’t have the biggest wage bill in the league and complain about the expectation being too high. You can’t have almost three times the average number of fans coming through the door and complain about the expectation being too high. 

The expectation is to win the league, because if we don’t then another team in a worse situation is doing something better than us to achieve it. There is a difference between needlessly slagging players, i.e. Bradley, and wanting the club to find solutions to improve. 

Everyone is up for a critique: Clowes, Warne & Thomas. Clowes hired both Warne and Thomas, he is continuing their employment and letting them have influence over the future of this football club, his long-term investment and ultimately the general feeling and wellbeing of the people in the city of Derby. Clowes will never deserve criticism for being Derby owner, but we can critique and analyse how he could make it better. That is the difference. I don’t want anyone to lose their job or suffer abuse, although it happens, but we all have a right to say what we like and what we don’t - there is just ways to do things. ‘I don’t like 3-5-2, I wish we played XYZ’ is not that same as ‘Warne is a baldy, bobble-headed w*****’ - most people go with the former, the latter is just completely unnecessary. 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

9 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Mature

You was wrong but still try and find a way to be right. 
 

Sometimes you have to admit defeat. You’d be a better person for doing that. 

[Tamworthram]

9 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

no, we are talking about our way of playing and lack of control

I must have missed the bit where we morphed from talking about whether we were lucky or not to win at Peterborough (I believe that is the only point I took issue with) into the way of playing and lack of control in 9 out of 10 games.

[Jayram]

13 hours ago, Curtains said:

Just don’t agree with you. 
 

Fair enough Curtains, that’s what a forum like this is for. We’ll have to agree to disagree.

[Tamworthram]

50 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

You was wrong but still try and find a way to be right. 
 

Sometimes you have to admit defeat. You’d be a better person for doing that. 

In your opinion.

Has the referee admitted that he guessed when making the decision? If he has then I will freely admit that my interpretation of events were indeed wrong. If he hasn’t, then we still don’t know if I was wrong or not. 
 

if you go back through my posts you will see that originally I thought it was handball. I later after seeing the short slow motion video, was a better person and agreed that it wasn’t and that the club should appeal. I am only disputing whether the referee guessed or made a decision based on what he believed he saw (as I say, refs must have to do that all the time). Unless he admits it was a guess then we’ll never know if I was wrong or not.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Tamworthram

[BramcoteRam84]

14 hours ago, JustOneBiblicalKazim said:

 

1 solitary shot on target, which was a penalty. We played 48 minutes plus stoppage time with 11 men and still looked so poor, we only looked a threat from set pieces, potentially the worst on the ball I’ve ever seen us, 119 accurate passes with 57% pass accuracy is genuinely disgusting, there was games last season where Cashin did over 100 on his own, when we beat Man United away under Lampard Bradley Johnson had over 50 in the opposition half, so in a 90+ minute spell to have 119 accurate passes is awful, add to that after 3 minutes Bolton had 92% of the possession. I’ve never felt so unenthusiastic about watching us play, particularly after the injuries to Rooney and Thompson, not one part of me can be bothered to watch 9/10 ageing players look like they’ve never met each other for 90 minutes. I just wanna see something to feel optimistic about, an intention to play entertaining and attacking football and to see some of our exciting young players used in a way that can utilise the best of their abilities. I’m actually missing Cocu at the minute because at least I knew and liked what he wanted us to do.

Those stats show practically identical xG despite playing a whole half nearly with 10 men, with a performance even the manager wasn’t happy with first half hour. Doesn’t show the chasm of difference some have been implying on here. Bolton had 71% of the ball and barely created anything. Can’t also deny the material impact the ref had on this game.

Also - just a reminder - we’re only SIX GAMES into the season in what is a wide open league with no stand out teams. We have ELEVEN new players so to throw last year into it is largely irrelevant.
 

Those who want Warne out now thank goodness you’re not David Clowes. 
 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

13 hours ago, oodledoodle said:

Wildsmith was sent off on 48 mins. So here are the first half stats. I know you're trying to defend Warne, as per, but what you're saying is easily disproven by anyone who watched the game, or a 2 second search for the stats.

 

 

I'm repeating myself but those passing stats are absolutely shocking. Not many passes and only 56% accurate. Let's be honest, the players can pass the ball better than that so it's got to be the tactics they are trying to employ. 

Sorry, but Im very disappointed with the management team. 

[alram]

As an answer to the original question of the thread as soon as you settle for mediocrity you will get mediocrity in return

[RoyMac5]

35 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Those stats show practically identical xG despite playing a whole half nearly with 10 men, with a performance even the manager wasn’t happy with first half hour. Doesn’t show the chasm of difference some have been implying on here. Bolton had 71% of the ball and barely created anything. Can’t also deny the material impact the ref had on this game.

Also - just a reminder - we’re only SIX GAMES into the season in what is a wide open league with no stand out teams. We have ELEVEN new players so to throw last year into it is largely irrelevant.
Those who want Warne out now thank goodness you’re not David Clowes. 

So we were awful in our play, the league is pretty ordinary and there's still lots of games to play. So why shouldn't expectation be high? I don't want another season of oh the ref's to blame, or if only that one mistake hadn't happened, etc. That will be something all the teams say.

So we have to be good enough to create enough chances to outplay teams in a wide open league with no stand out teams - it shouldn't be too much to expect.

[alram]

43 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Those stats show practically identical xG despite playing a whole half nearly with 10 men, with a performance even the manager wasn’t happy with first half hour. Doesn’t show the chasm of difference some have been implying on here. Bolton had 71% of the ball and barely created anything. Can’t also deny the material impact the ref had on this game.

Also - just a reminder - we’re only SIX GAMES into the season in what is a wide open league with no stand out teams. We have ELEVEN new players so to throw last year into it is largely irrelevant.
 

Those who want Warne out now thank goodness you’re not David Clowes. 
 

I don’t really care if they created nothing with 71% possession… we didn’t either because we didn’t have the ball

 

we will not get out this league if we concede an embarrassing amount of the ball

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

1 hour ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Those stats show practically identical xG despite playing a whole half nearly with 10 men, with a performance even the manager wasn’t happy with first half hour. Doesn’t show the chasm of difference some have been implying on here. Bolton had 71% of the ball and barely created anything. Can’t also deny the material impact the ref had on this game.

Also - just a reminder - we’re only SIX GAMES into the season in what is a wide open league with no stand out teams. We have ELEVEN new players so to throw last year into it is largely irrelevant.
 

Those who want Warne out now thank goodness you’re not David Clowes. 
 

I don’t care what Bolton were doing I care about our performances, we could barely string two passes together, including all the stoppage time we averaged 1.05 successful passes per minute, that is grim, I really don’t want to watch that sort of football for the rest of the season. You say it’s 11 new players but the starting 11 has largely been made up of the squad that was already here last season, certainly for the first few games, and we’ve seen all the same issues as we were seeing during our dip in form last season. 1 shot on target in 90 minutes of football coming from a penalty is simply unacceptable, whether Bolton were poor or not.

[i-Ram]

8 minutes ago, JustOneBiblicalKazim said:

I don’t care what Bolton were doing I care about our performances, we could barely string two passes together, including all the stoppage time we averaged 1.05 successful passes per minute, that is grim, I really don’t want to watch that sort of football for the rest of the season. You say it’s 11 new players but the starting 11 has largely been made up of the squad that was already here last season, certainly for the first few games, and we’ve seen all the same issues as we were seeing during our dip in form last season. 1 shot on target in 90 minutes of football coming from a penalty is simply unacceptable, whether Bolton were poor or not.

1.05 successful passes per minute 😂 We must have kicked off 3 times - did we find our man on those occasions?

[Blondest Goat]

19 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

1.05 successful passes per minute 😂 We must have kicked off 3 times - did we find our man on those occasions?

We often employ that stupid diagonal hoof upfield from kick offs.  With about 6 players lined up down one side to run onto the ball.  Looks more like rugby than football and I don't think we ever retain possession.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

In your opinion.

Has the referee admitted that he guessed when making the decision? If he has then I will freely admit that my interpretation of events were indeed wrong. If he hasn’t, then we still don’t know if I was wrong or not. 
 

if you go back through my posts you will see that originally I thought it was handball. I later after seeing the short slow motion video, was a better person and agreed that it wasn’t and that the club should appeal. I am only disputing whether the referee guessed or made a decision based on what he believed he saw (as I say, refs must have to do that all the time). Unless he admits it was a guess then we’ll never know if I was wrong or not.

Of course it was a guess, you only need to see the referees position and you can see he's guessed it's bounced off his arm and not chest. 

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

I'm repeating myself but those passing stats are absolutely shocking. Not many passes and only 56% accurate. Let's be honest, the players can pass the ball better than that so it's got to be the tactics they are trying to employ. 

Sorry, but Im very disappointed with the management team. 

It reminded me of the Wycombe game when Rooney first became manager where he wanted to beat the opposition at their own game. He wanted to out football Brentford, and play hoofball better than Wycombe. I was critical of that approach, but you could argue it yielded results - we got 10 points out of his first 6 games without losing.

That Wycombe game was horrendously ugly. We still managed 441 passes in that game (70% accurate) and 5 shots on target. Despite playing different styles of football every week, the coaching staff got the message of how Rooney wanted them to play across very effectively and even though I didn't like the style of play, I could see a clear game plan in place.

[Tamworthram]

6 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Of course it was a guess, you only need to see the referees position and you can see he's guessed it's bounced off his arm and not chest. 

I really don’t know why we’re falling out over this or how you seem to have the capability to see the incident through the referees eyes and read his mind.

You’re adamant he guessed, I’m suggesting he made a call based on what he believed he saw (as I have said, it must happen a lot and I don’t know what the bar is set at for making such calls). You don’t know I am wrong anymore than I know I’m right. We should probably just leave it at that rather than calling for the other party to admit they were wrong unless/until the referee publicly explains his decision.

I originally thought it was handball (and said so) but subsequently changed my opinion (after seeing the slow motion replays) and don’t think it was (I have also said so). The fact the club is appealing against the decision may prove the referee was wrong but it doesn’t provide evidence of the thought process or rationale the referee used in arriving at his decision.

Call it twaddle again if you like but you can’t possibly know how the referee arrived at his decision anymore than I can. Ironically, we’re both guessing.

[Chris_Martin]

4 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Those stats show practically identical xG despite playing a whole half nearly with 10 men, with a performance even the manager wasn’t happy with first half hour. Doesn’t show the chasm of difference some have been implying on here. Bolton had 71% of the ball and barely created anything. Can’t also deny the material impact the ref had on this game.

Also - just a reminder - we’re only SIX GAMES into the season in what is a wide open league with no stand out teams. We have ELEVEN new players so to throw last year into it is largely irrelevant.
 

Those who want Warne out now thank goodness you’re not David Clowes. 
 

the penalty makes up 0.79 of the xg though, so we really only created 0.5xg according to that app. Most others had us at 1.01xg for the game so take off the 0.79 penalty, plus we never had a shot on goal outside of the penalty and it actually looks pretty bad.

You say Bolton had a lot of possesion and created barely anything, but that is generally the pattern when a team goes down to 10 men they just put everyone deep behind the ball and it's very difficult to break down.

Yes i agree the ref was bad to say the least, but not sure how you can say last year is largely irrelevant? We were better last season despite having an entire new squad thrown together.

[Walkley Ram]

35 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

the penalty makes up 0.79 of the xg though, so we really only created 0.5xg according to that app. Most others had us at 1.01xg for the game so take off the 0.79 penalty, plus we never had a shot on goal outside of the penalty and it actually looks pretty bad.

You say Bolton had a lot of possesion and created barely anything, but that is generally the pattern when a team goes down to 10 men they just put everyone deep behind the ball and it's very difficult to break down.

Yes i agree the ref was bad to say the least, but not sure how you can say last year is largely irrelevant? We were better last season despite having an entire new squad thrown together.

In fairness, Bolton's penalty would also be cancelled out, so we were (goal chances) quite evenly matched.

[Chris_Martin]

21 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

In fairness, Bolton's penalty would also be cancelled out, so we were (goal chances) quite evenly matched.

😅 good point. Take away both pens and the xg was about 0.6 for them, 0 2 for us