Summer Rumour Mill

[S8TY]

13 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I dont think a single person has said we should get rid of Hourihane to have a Bird-Knight midfield 2, so it's odd that you're now using that as an argument to support your original point - you would sell one of then to 'rebuild' the side.

Bird and Hourihane combined played in 78% of the available minutes for a 2 man midfield. That 78% contributed to more goals than 100% of Plymouth's midfield usage, and were 2 or 3 goals behind Ipswich's. Add in the additional 22% of players and we matched Ipswich's 2 man midfield. Your statement of "need more goals in midfield" is factually incorrect since the two clubs which got automatic promotion didn't get more than us from that area of the field.

Bannan is another poor example to compare him against. Bannan is given absolute freedom to pick up positions to create goal scoring opportunities for his team. He has very little defensive responsibility, as shown by making almost half as many tackles per game as Bird. Bannan is often playing in much more advanced positions.

Once you strip out games played at AM, wing, or CF, there are only 6 players who gained more assists from CM than Bird in the league: Bannan, Hourihane, Phillips, Kane, Morrell, Morsy.

Try leaving your stats to one side please stato

I'm quite old fashioned in that I see what i see on the actual pitch

Why keep comparing us to Plymouth when the main comparison point  is they got a lot more points than us ! 

Didn't compare Bannan to Bird in any way what I am saying is if you actually care to read it without rose tinted glasses is Knight and Bird, as good a players as they are....( good players!!) when I watch them they are NOT going to get the goals required to help our forwards out....Hourihane at his age is not worth what we could get for Bird or Knight so going back to my original post ....selling one of them and IF the money was invested properly we could realistically get 2 maybe 3 decent players ( thats not rebuilding the side but wheeling and dealing yes to keep us financially sound ) and for me 1 should be a more attack minded midfielder, i'm not going to get into an argument because its not an argument ...thats your take on it My opinion stands and I'm saying no more ....

id sell one of Knight or Bird , preferably Knight and then use the money wisely ....thats it ...because I don't and won't see Bird,Knight and Hourihane scoring enough ....and for me Bird could be more of a box to box player but he's not played in that way ....Bielik showed how to play the CDM role and Max for me would be better if we tried to get him to play with more attack in mind because I think he could do it ....I think Bird could be one of the best midfielders in L1 if he was more forward thinking but if he's not going to play that role then we need a goalscoring midfielder 

[angieram]

6 hours ago, Ambitious said:

Bird was good last season, for the most part. He was a key component in our unbeaten run last season, equally his injury coincided with our downturn and that Harvey White, who came in to help cover him, wasn’t up to much.

I was more disappointed in Knight and Sibs. Bird was at least showing up as one of our best players, albeit momentarily. Knight played his best football ‘out of position’ earlier in the season. You would hope that all three would do well in the proposed formation. Sibley in an advanced role behind the striker, Bird and Knight in midfield playing box-to-box. It’s unlikely we will get to see it, but if all three could pull themselves together then you’ve got a brilliant midfield to build on. 

I can never understand why it's those three getting all the criticism when it was other areas of the pitch letting us down. 

Particularly up front. Despite McGoldrick's goals.

[kevinhectoring]

26 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

if we keep giving 3 year contracts to players who won’t hack it in the Championship will we rebuild again but have players sitting around for 2 years on decent wages?

yes    perhaps the consolation is:  if we go up it should be relatively easy to sell to other div 1 sides the players we need to replace.  And against Championship metrics the £numbers involved won’t be enormous 

Edited June 28, 2023 by kevinhectoring

[S8TY]

24 minutes ago, angieram said:

I can never understand why it's those three getting all the criticism when it was other areas of the pitch letting us down. 

Particularly up front. Despite McGoldrick's goals.

Totally agree Angie, For the record I'm not criticising Bird or Knight but just think for a better balance an attack minded CM would be great but don't want us to overspend  ..Up front we were woeful and in some games we should've been out of sight by HT with better strikers and attacking options  we should hopefully address that this season 

[Ambitious]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

I can never understand why it's those three getting all the criticism when it was other areas of the pitch letting us down. 

Particularly up front. Despite McGoldrick's goals.

They are three players who so much was expected, that’s why, and honestly - rightly so. 

They were playing with players who largely were bought for nothing on relatively low wages. All three I would guess are going to be on £10k plus wages based on when they signed their deals. 

Three players who had shown whilst teenagers they were able to star in the championship should be able to consistently beat the piss out of players at this level - especially as young men. You saw how easy it was for McGoldrick and NML at times, yet none of them flashed the heights of their two performance even during the best games this season. Pressure is a privilege. 

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

They are three players who so much was expected, that’s why, and honestly - rightly so. 

They were playing with players who largely were bought for nothing on relatively low wages. All three I would guess are going to be on £10k plus wages based on when they signed their deals. 

Three players who had shown whilst teenagers they were able to star in the championship should be able to consistently beat the piss out of players at this level - especially as young men. You saw how easy it was for McGoldrick and NML at times, yet none of them flashed the heights of their two performance even during the best games this season. Pressure is a privilege. 

But many fans seem to be expecting them to play at the top of their game consistently. They are still developing.

Edit: Dobbin is 20 yr old, how much leeway was he allowed by many? He's not even vaguely consistent nor at the top of his game (or is he?).

Edited June 28, 2023 by RoyMac5

[angieram]

1 minute ago, Ambitious said:

They are three players who so much was expected, that’s why, and honestly - rightly so. 

They were playing with players who largely were bought for nothing on relatively low wages. All three I would guess are going to be on £10k plus wages based on when they signed their deals. 

Three players who had shown whilst teenagers they were able to star in the championship should be able to consistently beat the piss out of players at this level - especially as young men. You saw how easy it was for McGoldrick and NML at times, yet none of them flashed the heights of their two performance even during the best games this season. Pressure is a privilege. 

That says more about the fans' expectations, than it does about the players. 

They honestly were very good at times, it's just that our fans ARE so expectant, THAT'S the problem. 

As I said, if the forwards had been more efficient, we'd have scored the goals that said we had one of the best midfields in the league. 

I'd include Hourihane and Smith in that, we had good options in midfield all season. It was a loanee that was the only disappointment. 

And I'm not sure how you can hold our players responsible for who they were playing alongside? I'd still wager they were on lower wages than most of the older players, but somehow, we paint this picture of them earning big wages and under-performing. I think it's nonsense.

[Ambitious]

17 minutes ago, angieram said:

That says more about the fans' expectations, than it does about the players. 

They honestly were very good at times, it's just that our fans ARE so expectant, THAT'S the problem. 

As I said, if the forwards had been more efficient, we'd have scored the goals that said we had one of the best midfields in the league. 

I'd include Hourihane and Smith in that, we had good options in midfield all season. It was a loanee that was the only disappointment. 

And I'm not sure how you can hold our players responsible for who they were playing alongside? I'd still wager they were on lower wages than most of the older players, but somehow, we paint this picture of them earning big wages and under-performing. I think it's nonsense.

They will be amongst our highest earners, the restriction on wages for players coming in will see to that. 

It’s obviously our expectations that drive frustration, but on one hand we know how good they can be and we’ve seen how good they can be. If we had just signed them as free agents, released by Championship clubs, the expectation would therefore be much lower. I don’t think anyone is saying they struggled to compete in League One or they aren’t good enough - we didn’t get enough from them and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying that. 

You’re within your right to expect more from Jason Knight than you are Korey Smith, for example. 

[EnigmaRam]

2 hours ago, angieram said:

I can never understand why it's those three getting all the criticism when it was other areas of the pitch letting us down. 

Particularly up front. Despite McGoldrick's goals.

I think it’s just down to the fact that Bird and Knight in particular are 2 players that have had interest shown in them by other clubs. Some believe they should be sold to fund a rebuild in areas we are short ie attackers, and some believe we should keep them as they are good players.

As we don’t know what funds are available for buying players, these are the only way people can see us generating funds for the required rebuild.

If other players had interest shown in them I’m sure we would all be debating their worth for either staying or being sold

 

[kevinhectoring]

7 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

You’re within your right to expect more from Jason Knight than you are Korey Smith, for example. 

well it’s quite a message, even to someone with Jason’s spirit and determination: “ go out there are run until you feel nauseous,  then run some more and faster.  oh and don’t be dispirited by - week in week out - being along side senior players who are paid more, who tell you what to do and who don’t deliver anywhere near the % of effort you are cranking out. PS and you’ll be playing out of position. 

And even then we got a decent season out of him. Good luck Jason you’ve been massive 

[BobdeBilder]

Any rumours?

 

[hintonsboots]

5 minutes ago, BobdeBilder said:

Any rumours?

 

What ? In a summer Rumour mill thread. No mention of the wardrobe yet.

[Gerry Daly]

God you are right. Nobody has mentioned the wardrobe! Cue several pages of discussion about him

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

2 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said:

God you are right. Nobody has mentioned the wardrobe! Cue several pages of discussion about him

Last I heard Ainsworth was seen feeding him into an industrial chipper.  No amount of WD40 on those old hinges would stop the squeaking.  McClaren was seen running through the gates in tears offering scrap value over 4 years at 25k a week but it was too late.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

well it’s quite a message, even to someone with Jason’s spirit and determination: “ go out there are run until you feel nauseous,  then run some more and faster.  oh and don’t be dispirited by - week in week out - being along side senior players who are paid more, who tell you what to do and who don’t deliver anywhere near the % of effort you are cranking out. PS and you’ll be playing out of position. 

And even then we got a decent season out of him. Good luck Jason you’ve been massive 

According to Salary Sport website, Jason Knight is currently the second highest earner in the squad on £10k pw, behind Hourihane who is on £12k pw. McGoldrick is reported to have been on £7.4k pw as was Curtis Davies; Collins on £8.1k, Sibley on £8k and Bird on £7.9k are the 3rd, 4th and 5th best paid.

[Gerry Daly]

5 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

According to Salary Sport website, Jason Knight is currently the second highest earner in the squad on £10k pw, behind Hourihane who is on £12k pw. McGoldrick is reported to have been on £7.4k pw as was Curtis Davies; Collins on £8.1k, Sibley on £8k and Bird on £7.9k are the 3rd, 4th and 5th best paid.

Yeah but do you believe that? How would such a website get hold of the confidential details of individual players wages. Don't believe all you read

[Kernow]

It’s probably more a joke about CD playing as a striker given that he did it quite well for us on the odd occasion. But 10 is Alfie May’s number, and we’re on the verge of our first sale of the summer, so things might be starting to happen on that front. If he was going to Charlton, why hasn’t he by now? He could be waiting for us who had to wait to bring in some funds first.

[Ambitious]

17 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said:

Yeah but do you believe that? How would such a website get hold of the confidential details of individual players wages. Don't believe all you read

Don't trust them sites at all, but if you piece together what we know - Bogle signed a 4yr deal in 2018 on £9000 per week. We know this because it was disclosed during a court case when he was hit with a driving offense. 

Jason Knight signed his deal early 2020 after his breakthrough and importantly when the cash was still forthcoming. 

Bird and Sibley signed on the back of their excellent form in 2020 - both establishing themselves in the first team. I would therefore interpret that £9500 per week would be the floor of their contracts for all three of them. 

I certainly don't see any of the three being on less than £9k a week (anyway). 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Ambitious

[Foreveram]

15 minutes ago, Kernow said:

It’s probably more a joke about CD playing as a striker given that he did it quite well for us on the odd occasion. But 10 is Alfie May’s number, and we’re on the verge of our first sale of the summer, so things might be starting to happen on that front. If he was going to Charlton, why hasn’t he by now? He could be waiting for us who had to wait to bring in some funds first.

 

15 minutes ago, Kernow said:

It’s probably more a joke about CD playing as a striker given that he did it quite well for us on the odd occasion. But 10 is Alfie May’s number, and we’re on the verge of our first sale of the summer, so things might be starting to happen on that front. If he was going to Charlton, why hasn’t he by now? He could be waiting for us who had to wait to bring in some funds first.

Joking about taking AMs no.10 shirt with a winking 😉 interesting… very interesting.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Ambitious said:

Don't trust them sites at all, but if you piece together what we know - Bogle signed a 4yr deal in 2018 on £9500 per week. We know this because it was disclosed during a court case when he was hit with a driving offense. 

Jason Knight signed his deal early 2020 after his breakthrough and importantly when the cash was still forthcoming. 

Bird and Sibley signed on the back of their excellent form in 2020 - both establishing themselves in the first team. I would therefore interpret that £9500 per week would be the floor of their contracts for all three of them. 

I certainly don't see any of the three being on less than £10k a week (anyway). 

I agree. The pattern of the quoted wages fits in with what we were offering pre and post administration. The only one that seems an anomaly is Hourihane on £12k, which is more than the other new or renewed contracts last year. But I think it's often been said on here that he is the top earner on £12k. They explain their sources on the website but anyone is of course free to take it or leave it. The EFL are always willing to earn money from what they consider legitimate concerns.