Summer Rumour Mill

[Ambitious]

8 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

After 76 games.  Half of which are in League1 and half in a side that were relegated.  That's obscene.  On the Knight barometer of what I keep reading we should thankful to get, they should be accepting 50p and some gruel.

Ronnie Edwards is a fantastic prospect, finished last season very strongly too.

The fact is that whatever we want as fans for our players it ultimately doesn’t matter, if we held out for £10m for Knight instead of £2.5m it doesn’t automatically mean that the bidding goes up to that range. Edwards is also wanted by Premier League teams whereas Knight isn’t, again that’s nothing to do with us - we haven’t made the market for Knight exclusive to Championship clubs only. 

We all want as much money as possible for Knight but equally there is a balance whereby the received fee and benefits of it outweighs the benefit of having the player. Knight is a steady League One player in the same way he’s a steady Championship player, ultimately his impact in terms of tangible production was hugely disappointing for us last season. The club will make a decision on merit and what they feel helps the club the most. I’d love him to stay, but equally if he goes then I feel the money generated gives us a fantastic opportunity to replace him with a player more impactful for our club in its current state. 

[MickD]

On 23/06/2023 at 06:32, RoyMac5 said:

 

I heard Nelson is trying to get us to sign Joe Hardy from Accrington for some reason. 🥰

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

29 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Ronnie Edwards is a fantastic prospect, finished last season very strongly too.

The fact is that whatever we want as fans for our players it ultimately doesn’t matter, if we held out for £10m for Knight instead of £2.5m it doesn’t automatically mean that the bidding goes up to that range. Edwards is also wanted by Premier League teams whereas Knight isn’t, again that’s nothing to do with us - we haven’t made the market for Knight exclusive to Championship clubs only. 

We all want as much money as possible for Knight but equally there is a balance whereby the received fee and benefits of it outweighs the benefit of having the player. Knight is a steady League One player in the same way he’s a steady Championship player, ultimately his impact in terms of tangible production was hugely disappointing for us last season. The club will make a decision on merit and what they feel helps the club the most. I’d love him to stay, but equally if he goes then I feel the money generated gives us a fantastic opportunity to replace him with a player more impactful for our club in its current state. 

He's a player with 76 games half in league 1.  I've yet to see him get MOTM awards at international level against France and The Ukraine.  Once again I'll stand by my opinion that Knight was very good last season and covered huge amounts of pedestrian play with his willingness too carry other peoples arses.  This poor season is a myth. There is no chance of replacing him for the money offered.

[Ambitious]

6 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

He's a player with 76 games half in league 1.  I've yet to see him get MOTM awards at international level against France and The Ukraine.  Once again I'll stand by my opinion that Knight was very good last season and covered huge amounts of pedestrian play with his willingness too carry other peoples arses.  This poor season is a myth. There is no chance of replacing him for the money offered.

I do disagree, while he didn’t have a poor season - he was no more than adequate. McGoldrick looked head and shoulders above him, a 36 year old who has decided to move to League Two. Players in the same division in worst teams were able to outperform him. The only teams interested are bottom half championship sides or recently promoted League One sides. 

Understand football is very subjective at times, but if you consider if the shoe was on the other foot and we had spent £2.5m on a transfer fee and up to £1m per annum in wages and his performances last season was the result. I don’t think many people would’ve been happy. He wasn’t in the running for our POTY award. He didn’t give himself a sniff again the competition was a player released by Sheff Utd aged 36. A goalkeeper released by Sheff Wed. A centre back in his first full year in professional football and a left back on the back of three ACL injuries playing at centre back consistently for the first time in his career. It wasn’t exactly the treble winning United side, let’s say. 

I appreciate his ability, his upside and what he brings to the team. Equally, I understand that if he’s here next season that he still isn’t a match winner or a creative influence that we so desperately need and could flip him in order to get. 

[kevinhectoring]

20 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

He's a player with 76 games half in league 1.  I've yet to see him get MOTM awards at international level against France and The Ukraine.  Once again I'll stand by my opinion that Knight was very good last season and covered huge amounts of pedestrian play with his willingness too carry other peoples arses.  This poor season is a myth. There is no chance of replacing him for the money offered.

knight has had a year with people in his ear telling him he shouldn't be playing in div 1.  They are probably right. He was fine last season overall but he didn't boss div 1 as some predicted. You can debate why - but I’d say partly because of the type of player he is, and partly because of the team set up he was in : there’s only so much carrying other people’s arses that even he will do. 

He needs to leave and if he stays we won’t get the best of him. As to whether we can replace him with the transfer fee, that’s a lottery. Let him get on with his career with a big thank you 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

I do disagree, while he didn’t have a poor season - he was no more than adequate. McGoldrick looked head and shoulders above him, a 36 year old who has decided to move to League Two. Players in the same division in worst teams were able to outperform him. The only teams interested are bottom half championship sides or recently promoted League One sides. 

Understand football is very subjective at times, but if you consider if the shoe was on the other foot and we had spent £2.5m on a transfer fee and up to £1m per annum in wages and his performances last season was the result. I don’t think many people would’ve been happy. He wasn’t in the running for our POTY award. He didn’t give himself a sniff again the competition was a player released by Sheff Utd aged 36. A goalkeeper released by Sheff Wed. A centre back in his first full year in professional football and a left back on the back of three ACL injuries playing at centre back consistently for the first time in his career. It wasn’t exactly the treble winning United side, let’s say. 

I appreciate his ability, his upside and what he brings to the team. Equally, I understand that if he’s here next season that he still isn’t a match winner or a creative influence that we so desperately need and could flip him in order to get. 

That same 36 yr old said Knight was a joy to play with and that he playing way below his level.   Cocu said he was the best midfielder at 18-19 he'd coached.  2.5 million would pay Arsenal for a bloke who's not going to be here and wages for Washington who'd get 20 a season at Belper Town- maybe. I really don't see the point. Any decent player will look at Derby losing a prized asset for little and their leading goal scorer out the door and see a club that isn't progressing.  We can look forward to seeing these match winners winning against us elsewhere.. 

  

[jimtastic56]

11 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Where do you get that from?

One of the low level rags . I can’t see it myself. Liam Rosenior is like all the top managers - He loves to play out from the back. Bird won’t take the ball from the keeper , so I don’t see the reason why Liam would want him.

[sage]

8 hours ago, MickD said:

I heard Nelson is trying to get us to sign Joe Hardy from Accrington for some reason. 🥰

It's fate 

[sage]

8 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

He's a player with 76 games half in league 1.  I've yet to see him get MOTM awards at international level against France and The Ukraine.  Once again I'll stand by my opinion that Knight was very good last season and covered huge amounts of pedestrian play with his willingness too carry other peoples arses.  This poor season is a myth. There is no chance of replacing him for the money offered.

He played well at full back but was only ok in midfield.

[Stuniverse]

I do like Jason Knight, a lot, but for an attacking midfielder anybody looking at his numbers from the outside would surely say he didn’t score enough goals last season, nor did he have enough assists. And that’s playing in League One.

Also, it doesn’t matter how much we think he’s worth, he’s only worth what someone is willing to pay.

—

On the other hand, there’s a gamble to be had here in that if we don’t sell Knight, and we get promotion, he may be willing to stay and sign a new contract in the Championship with Derby but, if we don’t go up, or he’s unwilling to extend his stay, he can leave for nothing next summer.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Stuniverse

[Ram-Alf]

8 hours ago, MickD said:

I heard Nelson is trying to get us to sign Joe Hardy from Accrington for some reason. 🥰

[Srg]

14 minutes ago, Stuniverse said:

I do like Jason Knight, a lot, but for an attacking midfielder anybody looking at his numbers from the outside would surely say he didn’t score enough goals last season, nor did he have enough assists. And that’s playing in League One.

Also, it doesn’t matter how much we think he’s worth, he’s only worth what someone is willing to pay.

—

On the other hand, there’s a gamble to be had here in that if we don’t sell Knight, and we get promotion, he may be willing to stay and sign a new contract in the Championship with Derby but, if we don’t go up, or he’s unwilling to extend his stay, he can leave for nothing next summer.

Played as much anywhere else as he did as any form of attacking midfielder, but therein lies the Knight conundrum.

[swanny]

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/football/midfielder-poised-to-become-latest-departure-from-wigan-athletic-4197194?fbclid=IwAR3nIpbiOGStZF60I9v-FSiNoCnR_zMhH--g_4zYUPMNGkkwICZ7gQEd258_aem_AZeMzFYcmqjuU9-RSaW7PmaVMf9c7MhOXl7BNJjH0VkSOqMM8V4FhI5HPO2c6cH-Fqo#3vw9kvalq5r

[S8TY]

To generate a meaningful rebuild where we can spend a bit of money on transfer fees and wages I very much suspect means losing Bielik and one or both of Knight and Bird 

as much as they’re  good players I do think the rebuild if the money is spent wisely could benefit us more 

Knight is so industrious we all know but he did not stand out in a lot of games last season 

Bird another good player but doesn’t impose himself enough 

both good players but I think if we spend the money correctly it might be best 

what both don’t do is score enough goals that’s a fact and the team in general need to be scoring more from midfield 

I’m not a massive Bradley Dack fan but he regularly scored 15+ goals from mid for Gillingham in league1 when my lad was there as an academy player 

that sort of input would bridge the gap between 7th and top 2 

 

[Ambitious]

7 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

That same 36 yr old said Knight was a joy to play with and that he playing way below his level.   Cocu said he was the best midfielder at 18-19 he'd coached.  2.5 million would pay Arsenal for a bloke who's not going to be here and wages for Washington who'd get 20 a season at Belper Town- maybe. I really don't see the point. Any decent player will look at Derby losing a prized asset for little and their leading goal scorer out the door and see a club that isn't progressing.  We can look forward to seeing these match winners winning against us elsewhere.. 

  

I can't remember that quote from Cocu, personally, plus with him coaching the likes of Memphis Depay, Steven Bergwijn and Donyell Malen (amongst others) at the same stage (18-19) I would find it very difficult to believe. Max Bird was always the one who seemed to get the most praise from Cocu, then Rooney in my recollection. 

It remains to be seen what Jason Knight does with his career and what Derby does with the money from any sale. If it was my decision I would look to gain as much value from the deal as possible and reinvest in the team, obviously your stance is very different - you see him as a catalyst to winning promotion next season.

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, S8TY said:

To generate a meaningful rebuild where we can spend a bit of money on transfer fees and wages I very much suspect means losing Bielik and one or both of Knight and Bird 

as much as they’re  good players I do think the rebuild if the money is spent wisely could benefit us more 

How much extra would we make from selling Knight and Bird? How much would it cost to replace them? We ran last season within budget and so would assume that the proceeds of that and similar this season plus the loss of Bieliks wages should be plenty of leeway when even Bonis or May are talked about as costing a few £100k.

Edited June 27, 2023 by RoyMac5

[simmoram1995]

10 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

He's a player with 76 games half in league 1.  I've yet to see him get MOTM awards at international level against France and The Ukraine.  Once again I'll stand by my opinion that Knight was very good last season and covered huge amounts of pedestrian play with his willingness too carry other peoples arses.  This poor season is a myth. There is no chance of replacing him for the money offered.

Derbys biggest problem is not selling players at the right time 

 

from memory 

hulse 4m- Middlesbrough ended up going to qpr for 200k

martin I think was wanted for somewhere between 3-5m ended up with multiple loans and free 

knight - 5-7m a few seasons ago - now be lucky to get 2m +

[MackworthRamIsGod]

9 minutes ago, simmoram1995 said:

Derbys biggest problem is not selling players at the right time 

 

from memory 

hulse 4m- Middlesbrough ended up going to qpr for 200k

martin I think was wanted for somewhere between 3-5m ended up with multiple loans and free 

knight - 5-7m a few seasons ago - now be lucky to get 2m +

Sturridge another big example.

However Rob Hulse told me himself that he point blank refused to sign for Middlesbrough, it wasn't derby refusing. We were ready to pack his bags and ship him off for 4 million.

Clough would have 10 more players with that 😆

[therams69]

11 minutes ago, simmoram1995 said:

Derbys biggest problem is not selling players at the right time 

 

from memory 

hulse 4m- Middlesbrough ended up going to qpr for 200k

martin I think was wanted for somewhere between 3-5m ended up with multiple loans and free 

knight - 5-7m a few seasons ago - now be lucky to get 2m +

Dean Sturridge..............😑

[S8TY]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

How much extra would we make from selling Knight and Bird? How much would it cost to replace them? We ran last season within budget and so would assume that the proceeds of that and similar this season plus the loss of Bieliks wages should be plenty of leeway when even Bonis or May are talked about as costing a few £100k.

I predict we will go up this season as div3 looks weak 

if we were in championship and Bird and Knight were in our midfield we aren’t going to be scoring many from that area

We need more goals from midfieId and therefore selling one of those players will not be the end of the world if we use it to get a more forward thinking CM 

already mentioned Dack who’s on a free but this is where our scouting comes in we don’t need to spend a fortune to get a more attack minded CM and may even get a striker or another player with what we could get for Knight or Bird 

I don’t think we need to keep both