Football is done

[WestKentRam]

It's an interesting conundrum we face here.

Football is a game of fine margins, and if decisions like this seemingly go against us more often than not, then we're going to have to try to win games 3 or 4 nil to overcome this, that is nigh on impossible.

It's easy to extrapolate how this will lead on to further problems...

If we don't want to give away 'soft' penalties, then don't touch or attempt to touch any opposition player in the penalty area. But then, it gives them an advantage if we stand off, fearful of over zealous referees, and are too cautious in tackles.

All rather tricky.

[BaaLocks]

I remember the play off final against WBA, Tyrone Mears made not one but two inch perfect tackles on Koumas and, iirc, Kamara. Both were well inside the box and both of them, watching it live, I was convinced were penalties. Neither were given and, watching it back, both were excellent refereeing decisions. We can do it, we don't always need technology as the solution but we just need good refs. And when we have good refs players will learn that simulation and diving (inside the box or elsewhere) has no benefit. There will always be players who over react to gain advantage (Franny Lee anyone) but the Plymouth one was playing to the letter of the law and not the spirit of the game. Only when refs focus on the latter as the driving force of their decisions will things change.

[Alan Ramage 4 EVA]

On 07/03/2023 at 22:17, Loughborough Ram said:

Watching SKY it's easy to see that football is eventually going to die. 

Whatever her name is, Jamie Mackie and Cowley 1 or 2 discussing tonight's penalty, said its a hard one to call, justifying the player cheating by saying White stuck his leg out so minimal if any contact was enough to dive, and praising the ref for giving a positive decision.

THE GAME IS DYING, and this mealy mouthed approval is just helping it on his way.

The Plymouth guy dived, they beat us because they cheated and that is apparently OK. We'll it isn't ok with me, you make your own minds up

 

I can recall Franny diving and getting a penalty against dirty leads think it was the same match as the fight with *unter 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Carnero]

Unless denying a clear goalscoring chance, I've always thought it would be better if only a free kick were awarded for "fouls" like the other night, rather than a free shot at goal from 12 yards.

In the case of most penalties the punishment clearly doesn't fit the crime and this in itself encourages diving in the box.

[Ram-Alf]

15 hours ago, JJs dms said:

The last time I watched us on sky(through now tv) was Birmingham a couple of seasons ago. The commentator, presenter, pundits all made out it was a good game, it wasn't both sides were awful, that Lee Bowyer was a tactical genius, basically a bunch of journeymen bullied a team of kids ,and that Troy Deeney signing for Birmingham was equalivant to Ronhaldo going back to Man Utd Jeez even blues fans aren't that sad I vowed from then on to stick with Ed Dawes and all his faults until last night. I,ve been laid up with a prolapsed disc so haven't been to a game since Bolton so decided to watch. Didn't put i on till 8 to miss the pre match drivel but did watch those three nobodies after. Pathetic absolutely pathetic. As the chant says sky tv ducking s***!!

I cancelled my Sky Sports subscription last November, The reason, Commentators, Purrrring over what they consider to be beautiful football, Refusing to call out the cheats, Talking tosh at every opportunity and just being crap , The football aint much better, Plus the price and getting less for more, I don't watch the EFL highlights, I fast forward MOTD and League 1 football is Bo***x, Officials make it worse for me.

Football is losing/lost it's soul imo ?  

[Ram-Alf]

43 minutes ago, Alan Ramage 4 EVA said:

I can recall Franny diving and getting a penalty against dirty leads think it was the same match as the fight with *unter 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was, Lee would run into the box and trip himself, The result a feud with Hunter until the melee. 

[BondJovi]

Recently, certainly in the premier league, players have been initiating contact, rather than being fouled. You only have to see it once to know that it is a totally unnatural movement, but for a while the refs would buy it. Not quite so much now thankfully. Whilst it is cheating, at least you can see some art to it. The Plymouth player did none of that, he was going to go down before the boot even came close to his. A completely unnatural fall and reaction. Not even clever cheating.

In womens game recently, a Man U player was sent off for violent conduct. It was later reviewed and the ban reversed and the opposing player banned for trying to deceive officials. The only way we will rid this problem is with more of that.

The ref reviews the game, sees no contact. Player gets a ban for deceit. It doesn't help at the time, but in the long run it would go some way to help. Look at Bruno Fernandes, his antics are embarrassing. His attempts to cheat are long overdue a punishment. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

1 minute ago, BondJovi said:

Recently, certainly in the premier league, players have been initiating contact, rather than being fouled. You only have to see it once to know that it is a totally unnatural movement, but for a while the refs would buy it. Not quite so much now thankfully. Whilst it is cheating, at least you can see some art to it. The Plymouth player did none of that, he was going to go down before the boot even came close to his. A completely unnatural fall and reaction. Not even clever cheating.

In womens game recently, a Man U player was sent off for violent conduct. It was later reviewed and the ban reversed and the opposing player banned for trying to deceive officials. The only way we will rid this problem is with more of that.

The ref reviews the game, sees no contact. Player gets a ban for deceit. It doesn't help at the time, but in the long run it would go some way to help. Look at Bruno Fernandes, his antics are embarrassing. His attempts to cheat are long overdue a punishment. 

100% this. The sooner this wretched cheating gets punished the better. 

[kevinhectoring]

On 07/03/2023 at 22:47, Steve How Hard? said:

Why did the ref apologise afterwards then? ?

He didn’t. He wanted to get Smith out of his face, write his report and get in his car for the long, cold ride home. So he said (allegedly) “IF I got it wrong I’m sorry... “ 

[ram59]

 Do we need referees to consider the circumstances when awarding these soft penalties? 

If it's a questionable decision and the attacking team were in a position to have a good goal scoring opportunity, I can understand the ref awarding a penalty. But when a player is going away from the goal and there is 'contact' or the ball hits an arm on the way out for a goal kick, surely the ref should need a greater level of certainty before awarding a penalty.

Virtually all of the penalties given against us this season have fallen into the latter category and as seasoned football fans, you know when a player is looking for a penalty when there is no better option available, surely referees should also be aware of this.

[Ram-Alf]

13 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

He didn’t. He wanted to get Smith out of his face, write his report and get in his car for the long, cold ride home. So he said (allegedly) “IF I got it wrong I’m sorry... “ 

I was told he said...I'll sing a song about a lorry ?

[kevinhectoring]

14 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

 

Recently, certainly in the premier league, players have been initiating contact, rather than being fouled

 

Agree and we’re seeing more and more of it. Grealish is one scallywag who’s mastered the dark art. This is much harder for referees
 

And a slightly different one - some players deliberately trip themselves up  - I’ll swear I saw one of the Newcastle players do it last week.  If it becomes habitual maybe we’ll get lucky and one of them’ll do it coming down the stairs 

It all means more goals we should be delighted 

[SKRam]

Retrospective punishment will rid the game of this. ‘Self-tripping’ will have a whole new meaning and the OED will have to offer an alternative meaning from the original 60s 

[kevinhectoring]

32 minutes ago, ram59 said:

 

 Do we need referees to consider the circumstances when awarding these soft penalties? 

 

It’s becoming clear they need a radical rule change. 
 

I think the sub gk should be allowed to join the gk on the goalline for the pen. Would be win win

1. the game would be free of the disgraceful spectacle of the stuttering penno 

2. managers and fans alike would be thrilled by the ghastly possibility of the DKC (double keeper concussion) 

[DavesaRam]

On 07/03/2023 at 22:38, Mr Tibbs said:

What are we giving him the benefit of the doubt for? Was he stopped in his tracks? Obstructed in any way? The answer is no. 

There's no contact from that "dangling leg" that would make a human being go down like that. It's pure simulation. His knee's have given way from potential brushing of his toe? That's even if there's any contact at all.

I'm not normally that bothered with refs and dodgy decisions but that one's just pathetic. It's a dive, there's not a foul there - let's not beat around the bush. 

 

Absolutely, because if we beat too close to it, the bush would fall over and it would be a penalty.

[MadAmster]

6 hours ago, S8TY said:

I remember the Italian ref Collini responding to a question of why did he think he was one of the best referees and he said regarding penalties DO NOT give a pen unless you are 100 per cent that it is a pen because you're in effect giving a team a goal and if you're not 100 per cent don't give it.

Funny how players didn't simulate so much when he was in charge of a game because they knew he would not give penalties easily 

If this stance of ONLY giving a pen if 100 per cent sure was followed it would be a massive step in the right direction

A ref should only give any decision if he's 100% sure. 

[MadAmster]

2 hours ago, BondJovi said:

Recently, certainly in the premier league, players have been initiating contact, rather than being fouled. You only have to see it once to know that it is a totally unnatural movement, but for a while the refs would buy it. Not quite so much now thankfully. Whilst it is cheating, at least you can see some art to it. The Plymouth player did none of that, he was going to go down before the boot even came close to his. A completely unnatural fall and reaction. Not even clever cheating.

In womens game recently, a Man U player was sent off for violent conduct. It was later reviewed and the ban reversed and the opposing player banned for trying to deceive officials. The only way we will rid this problem is with more of that.

The ref reviews the game, sees no contact. Player gets a ban for deceit. It doesn't help at the time, but in the long run it would go some way to help. Look at Bruno Fernandes, his antics are embarrassing. His attempts to cheat are long overdue a punishment. 

Looking for a foul is nothing new. Check this one out at 15:30 in. Last minute of injury time. ManU 3-1 up against us at OT. If I remember correctly, ha also "manufactured" a free kick in the same game.

 

[Grumpy Git]

18 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Looking for a foul is nothing new. Check this one out at 15:30 in. Last minute of injury time. ManU 3-1 up against us at OT. If I remember correctly, ha also "manufactured" a free kick in the same game.

 

'So cleverly', so cleverly my arse, he's a cheating barstard.

[OssieEnd]

5 hours ago, WestKentRam said:

It's an interesting conundrum we face here.

Football is a game of fine margins, and if decisions like this seemingly go against us more often than not, then we're going to have to try to win games 3 or 4 nil to overcome this, that is nigh on impossible.

It's easy to extrapolate how this will lead on to further problems...

If we don't want to give away 'soft' penalties, then don't touch or attempt to touch any opposition player in the penalty area. But then, it gives them an advantage if we stand off, fearful of over zealous referees, and are too cautious in tackles.

All rather tricky.

Like all the "Big" teams/clubs who find themselves in the third tier, we are a "target" . A target for opposition fans, players , clubs and , and , the officials. My observations on this league thus far are 

 

1. Cheating/simulation/diving , diving like you've been shot in the back by a German WWII sniper in Stalingrad at the merest brush of contact . This has genuinely surprised me. It is worse in this league than the championship.

 

2. Cheating in constantly moaning to the Ref , attempting to get opposition players booked and sent off. Again this has surprised me. You'd think the further you go down the football pyramid the less this would occur. 

 

3. The officials. They have been rotten. Sometimes ridiculously corrupt rotten. When I saw the ref for our Port Vale game at PP had written a letter of apology to PVFC for not awarding them a penalty in a previous fixture ( think it was v Sunderland) , I just knew it would be raining penalties for them . And guess what ? It did ! The refs have been unbelievably bad. So much so that it goes beyond trying to be rational with their decisions. They must also know they are reffing Derby . 

 

4. Opposition fans forums tend to be respectful of our size and stature , but also completely deluded into thinking we are spending loads of money . Not realising we are still under various EFL restraints ect...  consequently when we win we get no credit. But when we lose.. Oh my.. we put one over on Billy Big Boots ect.. Though I would say most of the opposition forums have a decent core bunch posting. 

 

5. At the start of this season I wanted us to follow or look at the Norwich/Leicester/Southampton models for when they dropped down here and pretty quickly gained promotion. But, we are indeed a special case. And where we are now compared to where we were half way thru last season is amazing . So I'm still feeling really positive. But in order to get out of this league we are going to have to be so much better in order to cancel out the garbage refs. 

 

6. As a club we are going through a revitalisation period and some of the new grounds we've visited have been a refreshing part of this. I've just added this as an after thought ! lol 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by OssieEnd

[Ram-Alf]

49 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

A ref should only give any decision if he's 100% sure. 

And not apologise afterwards as a softener ?