Academy thread 22/23

[Rambalin]

 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

3 minutes ago, Steve Buckley’s Dog said:

I can’t understand why they don’t use Stearman in the u21s - an old head to guide and coach on the pitch instead of getting battered absolutely every single week. After all, he isn’t doing a lot else and you never know when you are going to need a squad player like him. However, the morale of the academy seems to be of little concern to our current management from what I am led to believe so perhaps this isn’t a surprise. Still seems logical to me. 

6 million quid.  A mere trifle of expenditure with our riches.  Not worth concerning themselves with when they can be sent to grace the football giants of Matlock and Solihull Moors and learn there.

[Guest]

Cat 1 academy has to be funded by £2 million a year. £6 million is way off the mark on what’s spent on it. Young players need to be out on loan at Matlock etc because the 18 year old wonder kid who fits into the first team straight away and scores loads of goals/makes loads of saves is a rarity not common place and honestly we don’t have one in the system currently but we do have some boys who will be good players they just need to develop. 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

What exactly makes you believe the academy is of little concern to the management?

I’ve been told the same on more than one occasion. I’m not ITK but his approach and style is not suited to lads who have been developed to play in a completely different style since they were 9 along with his stated desire to get more “prime age” players not kids and older players. 

[Wolfie20]

1 minute ago, ExiledinDerby said:

I’ve been told the same on more than one occasion. I’m not ITK but his approach and style is not suited to lads who have been developed to play in a completely different style since they were 9 along with his stated desire to get more “prime age” players not kids and older players. 

Do you not think it makes more sense to have a better mix of youth, seasoned pros and what you term 'prime age' players - the latter able to improve pace and energy within the squad?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Do you not think it makes more sense to have a better mix of youth, seasoned pros and what you term 'prime age' players - the latter able to improve pace and energy within the squad?

I do but I don’t think the manager does and he picks the team. 

[Guest]

Just now, ExiledinDerby said:

I do but I don’t think the manager does and he picks the team. 

He wants prime age players not youngsters IMO it’s not about developing players for the future it’s about success now. 

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

Think the loan system’s something of a myth below premier league level really, how many of our academy products who’ve gone on to play first team football regularly in the past 10 years have had loans? Hendrick, Hughes, Bogle, Bird, Knight, Sibley, Cashin, Ebosele, Thompson (before now, and you can hardly say getting tonked every week with Scunthorpe is helping him), Buchanan, Plange, Ebiowei, don’t think any had loans, only one I can think of is Max Lowe, the rest all came straight into the first team. The best place for them is the under 21’s where they can learn the style of play and develop understanding with each other, hence the success of Bird and Knight when they broke through together.

I would also ask why players like Rooney and Thompson at least couldn’t have played minutes for the 21’s when they haven’t for the first team, benefits everyone surely?

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by JustOneBiblicalKazim

[Guest]

Out on loan where it matters, where wins decide if a manager keeps his job or not teaches something the u21s can’t. U21s still doesn’t really matter if you win, no one is getting sacked. 

[Guest]

Bird, Knight, Sibley, Cashin, Ebosele were put in the team out of necessity really not development and that’s why their form has been so widely varied at times. Out on loan would allow a more gradual and sustainable development. 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

It’s not all doom and gloom. The U14s beat Man City 3-0 yesterday. 

[angieram]

1 hour ago, ExiledinDerby said:

He wants prime age players not youngsters IMO it’s not about developing players for the future it’s about success now. 

I've not seen Warne or the other first team coaches at an under 21 game this season. Rosenior I saw quite often.

The point about learning the first team style of play is an interesting one as the under 21s still seem to play out from the back, rather than our current style.

I wonder whether they're as joined up with our new footballing philosophy as they used to be?

They could just be playing to the strengths of what they've got, of course.

[Crewton]

If it was my choice I'd beef up the U21s with the maximum number of overage players for one game at least, because getting annihilated EVERY game isn't character-building for young players. 

Perhaps Radio Derby could ask Warne why the kids are being left to flounder?

[RoyMac5]

3 hours ago, Crewton said:

If it was my choice I'd beef up the U21s with the maximum number of overage players for one game at least, because getting annihilated EVERY game isn't character-building for young players. 

Perhaps Radio Derby could ask Warne why the kids are being left to flounder?

Yes why not - ring up Moan-in and be Derek from Alvaston! But you would think that with limited resources the manager might be interested in the U21s?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, angieram said:

I've not seen Warne or the other first team coaches at an under 21 game this season. Rosenior I saw quite often.

The point about learning the first team style of play is an interesting one as the under 21s still seem to play out from the back, rather than our current style.

I wonder whether they're as joined up with our new footballing philosophy as they used to be?

They could just be playing to the strengths of what they've got, of course.

He watched the Boro game at Moor Farm last Friday but Chester was playing and he only seemed interested in seeing how he was.

The cup final will be interesting as it would be a chance to see if there is support for the u21s from the first team set up. Historically first team have been around “big” games to support the u18s and u21s. 

[Carnero]

10 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Yes. I thought he was excellent for our U18s. He was a much better prospect than Sykes-Kenworthy who he was competing with in the U23s and Foulkes who came in to replace him. I was surprised we let him go.

Cheers. Yes I thought he looked good too from the u23 games he played for us. Shame we released him.

[angieram]

3 hours ago, ExiledinDerby said:

He watched the Boro game at Moor Farm last Friday but Chester was playing and he only seemed interested in seeing how he was.

The cup final will be interesting as it would be a chance to see if there is support for the u21s from the first team set up. Historically first team have been around “big” games to support the u18s and u21s. 

Thanks. 

The timing of that game isn't good for us, we are still in Devon from the Exeter game. Gutted to be missing it.

I hope plenty of Derby fans get down to Pride Park to support them because there have been some cracking ties in that cup run. 

[angieram]

 

[IslandExile]

10 hours ago, angieram said:

I've not seen Warne or the other first team coaches at an under 21 game this season.

I want to like Warne. He's a funny man, he wears a bobble hat but, but....

All this about 4 year contract to build up the ethos of the club and he can't be bothered to watch the kids play???!!!! Eeek. That doesn't sit well for me.

His team selections and tactics are another thing but I give him the benefit of the doubt over that because we don't know the physical state of the squad.

I was a Warne sceptic when he first arrived but I quietened down in the light of the good run - and to give the guy a chance - but I'm afraid my fears are resurfacing.

[May Contain Nuts]

Conflicted on this tbh.

On the one hand it is of the utmost importance that we get ourselves established in the Championship, sharpish, on the other we can't just neglect the academy entirely.

...but realistically is there anyone we've been left (with following Morris setting fire to what he built) who could play a role in achieving that aim? Any players (or rather, enough players) who'll even be 'League One ready' in the next 2, 3 seasons? Does it make sense for the manager to be attending these games at the minute?

I also don't see that Warne, as a person and with his style of man-management, would simply exclude or be unwilling to work with a player just because they're from the academy setup. I'm not sure he would even have had much of an academy at Rotherham to work with? Perhaps it's all a bit new to him?

If Warne isn't having much if any say on how the academy teams play then, and don't really have anyone even close to making the step up, then it makes sense to focus on the first team.

Changing the whole academy set-up to suit Warne's current 'image' would take years (and quite frankly would be madness) so perhaps the idea is that he's gets free reign on first team affairs (learning / adapting as he goes), we carry on doing what we have been doing with the academy teams and the two 'ideals' meet in the middle further down the line.

Like with all things at the minute, we're banking on Warne & his team evolving with us and showing new sides to his managerial abilities. That's the gamble we've taken.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Kokosnuss