Academy thread 22/23

[Papahet]

23 minutes ago, Baffled said:

Ah, I see. Given that you are comparing  Calero, Guy, Thomas, Ball, Simmons, Brown, Stretton, Vernam, Zanzala, Wilson ETC with our current u21s, presumably the players you have quoted were were also rushed into the U23s, hence their subsequent failure. 

Thank goodness the same didn't apply the likes of Bird (First Team Debut at 16), Knight (FTD 18), Sibley (FTD 17), Whittaker (FTD 18), Bogle (FTD 18), Lowe (FTD 19), Ebosele (FTD 18), Thomson (FTD 19) Cashin (FTD 20) who must all have had a much gentler entry into u23 football..............

Thompson is now in the National league, pretty much shows how much he's rated doesn't it? With a waffle thin squad to be loaned out this part of the season...

Ebsoele? How many minutes of football has he played since leaving us?  Curious to know this.

Knight, Sibley, Bird, Cashin - read my previous post.

Whittaker? Genuinely didn't know any fan who rated him throughout his time here.

 

[Crewton]

17 hours ago, Papahet said:

Thompson is now in the National league, pretty much shows how much he's rated doesn't it? With a waffle thin squad to be loaned out this part of the season...

Ebsoele? How many minutes of football has he played since leaving us?  Curious to know this.

Knight, Sibley, Bird, Cashin - read my previous post.

Whittaker? Genuinely didn't know any fan who rated him throughout his time here.

 

Clowes is committed to keeping the Academy and CAT.1 status, so I'm afraid all of your objections are just 'waffle'.

You can't simply divert Academy funding to the first team due to FFP anyway.

[Papahet]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

Clowes is committed to keeping the Academy and CAT.1 status, so I'm afraid all of your objections are just 'waffle'.

You can't simply divert Academy funding to the first team due to FFP anyway.

What use is catorgy one status to us in league one though? Genuine question and maybe a stupid one.

But funding it in an effort to keep the status and then seeing players leave for peanuts who do ultimately make the first team..? I don't get it.

Only Hendrick left for a respectable figure in recent years, the rest we've been absolutely fleeced for and this has been a trend for aslong as I can remember.

We've then replaced said players with utter s****. So have little to no confidence on that factor.

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Papahet

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

1 hour ago, Papahet said:

What use is catorgy one status to us in league one though? Genuine question and maybe a stupid one.

But funding it in an effort to keep the status and then seeing players leave for peanuts who do ultimately make the first team..? I don't get it.

Only Hendrick left for a respectable figure in recent years, the rest we've been absolutely fleeced for and this has been a trend for aslong as I can remember.

We've then replaced said players with utter s****. So have little to no confidence on that factor.

 

You don’t just pick and choose when you want to be CAT1. 
 

A lot of work goes into keeping that status and for the club, it’s imperative we keep it. 
 

Look back at last season, a lot of the games the starting 11 were 50%+ of academy players. 
 

The academy will be more fruitful if we ever make it back to the Premier League but that has to be the aim. 

[Crewton]

2 hours ago, Papahet said:

What use is catorgy one status to us in league one though? Genuine question and maybe a stupid one.

But funding it in an effort to keep the status and then seeing players leave for peanuts who do ultimately make the first team..? I don't get it.

Only Hendrick left for a respectable figure in recent years, the rest we've been absolutely fleeced for and this has been a trend for aslong as I can remember.

We've then replaced said players with utter s****. So have little to no confidence on that factor.

 

We got good money for Bogle and Lowe between them and, arguably, it may turn out that what we got for Delap and Gordon turns out to be OK too. £750K for Whitakker was decent for where he was in his development. Don't forget that the only reason many went for peanuts or nothing last season was because we were in Administration. I've no doubt otherwise that we'd have eventually got good money for Ebiowe, Ebosele, Buchanan, Williams, Ryan and the Man U kids or they may well have formed the basis of a very decent team in the Championship at least.

And you now have to have a Cat 3 academy or higher in the PL from 2024/2025, so we'd have to have one anyway if we have those ambitions.

[Papahet]

50 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

You don’t just pick and choose when you want to be CAT1. 
 

A lot of work goes into keeping that status and for the club, it’s imperative we keep it. 
 

Look back at last season, a lot of the games the starting 11 were 50%+ of academy players. 
 

The academy will be more fruitful if we ever make it back to the Premier League but that has to be the aim. 

 How many of those clubs who have reached the Prem in the last decade relied on the academy? 

Even without that catorgy one status, I believe we'd have brought in a gem of two from the youth ranks.

Hughes and Hendrick were here before we received the cat1 status, ditto Bird and Sibley..

[Guest]

The academy has to have a budget of £2 million per year to retain Cat 1 status. If you are a lower category the value of your players decreases so if you think the money we received recently is bad try Cat 2 where the a player is worth less than half that of a Cat 1 player who has been at the club from u8 - u16 under EPPP.

It has been Cat 1 since 2014 I think so I assume costs of about £18 million pound.

Hendrick £8 million

Hughes £5 million

Gordon £3 million

Lowe, Whittaker, Bogle, Kellyman, Delap, Man Utd Kids, Buchanan, Ryan, Ebosele, Ebowei…

Its actually made more money than it’s cost….

That return on numbers of players alone including Bird, Sibley, Knight would suggest without it 

Current players creating interest and with potential Robinson, Richards, Hawkins, Brown, Wheeldon, Evans, Thompson… to name a few.

For what my opinion is worth (not much I know 😀) I’d say it’s been a good investment.. 

[Papahet]

18 minutes ago, Crewton said:

And you now have to have a Cat 3 academy or higher in the PL from 2024/2025, so we'd have to have one anyway if we have those ambitions.

Until we get anywhere near promotion to the PL, I wouldn't be overly arsed tbh..

12 pitches and a sandpit will cover us for awhile anyway.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Papahet said:

 How many of those clubs who have reached the Prem in the last decade relied on the academy? 

Even without that catorgy one status, I believe we'd have brought in a gem of two from the youth ranks.

Hughes and Hendrick were here before we received the cat1 status, ditto Bird and Sibley..

If you bring in a gem and your not Cat 1 you are entitled to 

£3000 per year u9-u11

£9,000 per year u12 - u16

Cat 1

£3000 per year u9 - u11

£42,000 per year u12 - u16

when Bird Sibley Hughes and Hendrick came through even though it wasn’t officially a Cat 1 it had the best facilities and coaches in the East Midlands at the time so it’s easier to recruit and retain the best talent

[Papahet]

3 minutes ago, ExiledinDerby said:

The academy has to have a budget of £2 million per year to retain Cat 1 status. If you are a lower category the value of your players decreases so if you think the money we received recently is bad try Cat 2 where the a player is worth less than half that of a Cat 1 player who has been at the club from u8 - u16 under EPPP.

It has been Cat 1 since 2014 I think so I assume costs of about £18 million pound.

Hendrick £8 million

Hughes £5 million

Gordon £3 million

Lowe, Whittaker, Bogle, Kellyman, Delap, Man Utd Kids, Buchanan, Ryan, Ebosele, Ebowei…

Its actually made more money than it’s cost….

That return on numbers of players alone including Bird, Sibley, Knight would suggest without it 

Current players creating interest and with potential Robinson, Richards, Hawkins, Brown, Wheeldon, Evans, Thompson… to name a few.

For what my opinion is worth (not much I know 😀) I’d say it’s been a good investment.. 

Hughes and Hendrick were already at the club before we got the status though...?

Both already in the first team before 2014.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Papahet said:

Hughes and Hendrick were already at the club before we got the status though...?

Both already in the first team before 2014.

Read my post about facilities and staff. It took 3/4 years to achieve Cat 1. 
 

i mentioned quite a few others as well…

[Papahet]

6 minutes ago, ExiledinDerby said:

If you bring in a gem and your not Cat 1 you are entitled to 

£3000 per year u9-u11

£9,000 per year u12 - u16

Cat 1

£3000 per year u9 - u11

£42,000 per year u12 - u16

when Bird Sibley Hughes and Hendrick came through even though it wasn’t officially a Cat 1 it had the best facilities and coaches in the East Midlands at the time so it’s easier to recruit and retain the best talent

But we've never gained promotion throughout this time? 

I don't want the best training facilities and what not, it doesn't take that to go up. Ask Brentford, ask Burnley, ask Watford, Bournemouth, Brighton ETC.

[Guest]

Just now, Papahet said:

But we've never gained promotion throughout this time? 

I don't want the best training facilities and what not, it doesn't take that to go up. Ask Brentford, ask Burnley, ask Watford, Bournemouth, Brighton ETC.

So bin the academy and forget about ever bringing a player through so we have to rely on buying players always… 

[Papahet]

2 minutes ago, ExiledinDerby said:

So bin the academy and forget about ever bringing a player through so we have to rely on buying players always… 

Forest only received this Cat1 status in 2021 I think (?) The training facilities are known for being majorly run down and neglected. Not much money being pumped in until lately.

Yet they've produced no end of talent over the years; Bamford, Darlow, Burke, Johnson, Brereton, Worrell, Osborn (released by DCFC?), Yates, Walker, Grant, Lascelles to name afew.

It's a totally irrelevant argument, if you are good enough you'll make it regardless

[Crewton]

25 minutes ago, Papahet said:

But we've never gained promotion throughout this time? 

I don't want the best training facilities and what not, it doesn't take that to go up. Ask Brentford, ask Burnley, ask Watford, Bournemouth, Brighton ETC.

Mercifully, you don't get to decide.

[Crewton]

We've also had the benefit of all the first team games played by academy products for whom we paid nothing other than their development costs and turned out scores of decent young men many of whom have had respectable careers as professional footballers in the EFL and beyond.

[RoyMac5]

 

[angieram]

Tonight's team.Getting younger by the game (Chester excepted!) 

All our back four are missing tonight, presumably all injured.

We were 1-0 down after eight minutes, but sounds like we've been holding on since then. 

I'm not there as not well.

 

[angieram]

This would have been great if we hadn't let a second goal in minutes before.

 

[angieram]