Serial Whingers Notts Forest playtime, which we simply cannot accept.

[Abu Derby]

Forest have been crap for ages. It’s not possible to suddenly come good in one season, get promoted to the Prem and hope to stay there for a long time. They remind me of Huddersfield Town. 

[Rammy03]

So invested in the 'project' that he only signed a one year deal. Let's call a spade a spade, he's gone there for the money. Forest's history has had zero impact on his decision.

[Boycie]

1 hour ago, Abu Derby said:

Forest have been crap for ages. It’s not possible to suddenly come good in one season, get promoted to the Prem and hope to stay there for a long time. They remind me of Huddersfield Town. 

And Derby to be fair.

[BramcoteRam84]

And the only reason Lingard is being discussed to death is because it’s Jesse Lingard. A mediocre premier league footballer is bigger than Notts Forest!! 

[alram]

23 hours ago, Asanovic70 said:

@alram

What is the point of throwing everything just to stay in the PL? All it means is that you get the chance to throw another lot of money the season after. The PL largesse is exaggerated, Forest have just ensured £10m of the purported £170m goes to Lingard.

Promoted sides can spend £100m & still take hammerings (Fulham, Villa). Established sides can spend hundreds of millions (Everton) & then be involved in a relegation battle. 

Like you, and others, I care about the long-term future of Derby after what happened, hence why I understood your reservations (Hourihane). But you're contradicting yourself when you say Forest are having a go, but then imply they are gambling their way to oblivion. There are different ways of approaching the PL (Brentford), Forest are buying into the notion that you simply have to chuck money at it. 

We have an owner who just posted that he doesn't want fans to get in debt over their season tickets. 'That it is not worth getting in debt over'. I've rarely heard anyone in a (club) boardroom capacity talk in such a responsible manner. 

oh come on asanovic you are being ridiclous. you are completely right the correct way to get to the premier league is the brentford approach but they cant just turn around and say we are going to be brentford now you have to build it over years. the only option they have is to throw money at it if they are going to compete

 

the reality is there is more financial risk in the championship as we have seen, when was the last time a prem club went out of business

[Rammy03]

Can't wait till it all comes crashing down ?

[Asanovic70]

1 hour ago, alram said:

the reality is there is more financial risk in the championship as we have seen, when was the last time a prem club went out of business

The thing is that the PL was not set up for middle-ranking clubs, it was set up for the then big 5, the elite, or clubs now bankrolled by states (Man City, now Newcastle). It asks the middle-ranking clubs to mortgage themselves. It's like that scene from Alice Through The Looking Glass where Alice runs just to stand still. 

PL clubs don't go out of business, they end up getting relegated instead due to financial problems, like Portsmouth, so that they then  cascade down the divisions. Parachute payments were brought in to cushion the blow that saw the likes of Swindon, Bradford cascade down the divisions. You could argue Sheff W never really recovered from Carbone etc, and like us, Chansiri spent big but ultimately failed. Sunderland another example. Millions spent to finish mid-table/bottom half.

Twice the PL has caused Derby severe damage, (a) 2002, Pickering relinquishing control, the ABC loan etc, £54m (b) 2008, the 11pt season, part of the PL revenue (£30m) going on servicing that historic debt. Indirectly, it led to a third (c) Mel Morris' ill-fated tenure, chasing the PL dream.

Forest are almost doing what we did in microcosm. Yes, it's exciting, we were all carried away by the money Morris spent. But one thing already noticeable at Nottingham Forest is how few Academy players will be able to come through. It was the likes of Worrall & Yates upon which they gained promotion (character).  

This is a club, that like ours, does not learn. They wasted money under Platt, early noughties, before a very good side came close to promotion (Paul Hart), vis us & Clough's platform/McClaren, the Doughty family waiving £75m debt, the comedy that was al-Hasawi. We paid Lawrence nearly £40k a week, now they're paying someone 3x that salary in a season.

It is just my personal opinion that's it's unsustainable because Nott'm Forest occupy a similar place in the food chain as us & some of the other clubs mentioned. They only need a handful of these signings to disappoint, and it will hamper/impact their future activity (vis Swansea). Eventually, Brentford will go down, not through any great fault of their own but because the PL asks sides at that level to keep re-inventing the wheel & eventually they get caught. The same happened to us. Christian Dailly sold for a sizeable fee, replaced by Prior but eventually we bought Bragstad.

The elite can absorb these losses, but an Ozil can still hamper an Arsenal, the wages a distraction (impact in dressing-room) as well as a major outgoing for the club.

I often think the anticipation, the journey appears more fun than arrival & possibly the memory of that surprise promotion after an abject start will live more in Forest fans' memory than the PL itself as does winning at Wembley in 2007 does for us.  I'd love us to have a side with a few home-grown players (Carsley), some with real stature (Stimac) & the enigmatic (Wanchope) giving it a right good go, a side that didn't need tons of money thrown at it. Otherwise I don't really see the appeal. It has damaged us twice & a third time indirectly.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Asanovic70
spelling

[Crewton]

59 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

Can't wait till it all comes crashing down ?

I remember when they were going to storm the Championship with their expensive Portuguese signings. They don't seem to have learnt much from that. 

[Asanovic70]

7 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

So invested in the 'project' that he only signed a one year deal. Let's call a spade a spade, he's gone there for the money. Forest's history has had zero impact on his decision.

Exactly, at West Ham, Lingard played well but then he was motivated by the desire to show Man United that he was worth keeping. Maybe the World Cup may inspire him who knows.

I  look forward to the Forest signing who admits that it was Hooters, or 'ooters, as Monsieur Biancone pronounces it, that brought him to Nottingham, especially that all you can eat Wings offer on Mondays.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Asanovic70

[TigerTedd]

14 minutes ago, Asanovic70 said:

The thing is that the PL was not set up for middle-ranking clubs, it was set up for the then big 5, the elite, or clubs now bankrolled by states (Man City, now Newcastle). It asks the middle-ranking clubs to mortgage themselves. It's like that scene from Alice Through The Looking Glass where Alice runs just to stand still. 

PL clubs don't go out of business, they end up getting relegated instead due to financial problems, like Portsmouth, so that they then  cascade down the divisions. Parachute payments were brought in to cushion the blow that saw the likes of Swindon, Bradford cascade down the divisions. You could argue Sheff W never really recovered from Carbone etc, and like us, Chansiri spent big but ultimately failed. Sunderland another example. Millions spent to finish mid-table/bottom half.

Twice the PL has caused Derby severe damage, (a) 2002, Pickering relinquishing control, the ABC loan etc, £54m (b) 2008, the 11pt season, part of the PL revenue (£30m) going on servicing that historic debt. Indirectly, it led to a third (c) Mel Morris' ill-fated tenure, chasing the PL dream.

Forest are almost doing what we did in microcosm. Yes, it's exciting, we were all carried away by the money Morris spent. But one thing already noticeable at Nottingham Forest is how few Academy players will be able to come through. It was the likes of Worrall & Yates upon which they gained promotion (character).  

This is a club, that like ours, does not learn. They wasted money under Platt, early noughties, before a very good side came close to promotion (Paul Hart), vis us & Clough's platform/McClaren, the Doughty family waiving £75m debt, the comedy that was al-Hasawi. We paid Lawrence nearly £40k a week, now they're paying someone 3x that salary in a season.

It is just my personal opinion that's it's unsustainable because Nott'm Forest occupy a similar place in the food chain as us & some of the other clubs mentioned. They only need a handful of these signings to disappoint, and it will hamper/impact their future activity (vis Swansea). Eventually, Brentford will go down, not through any great fault of their own but because the PL asks sides at that level to keep re-inventing the wheel & eventually they get caught. The same happened to us. Christian Dailly sold for a sizeable fee, replaced by Prior but eventually we bought Bragstad.

The elite can absorb these losses, but an Ozil can still hamper an Arsenal, the wages a distraction (impact in dressing-room) as well as a major outgoing for the club.

I often think the anticipation, the journey appears more fun than arrival & possibly the memory of that surprise promotion after an abject start will live more in Forest fans' memory than the PL itself as does winning at Wembley in 2007 does for us.  I'd love us to have a side with a few home-grown players (Carsley), some with real stature (Stimac) & the enigmatic (Wanchope) giving it a right good go, a side that didn't need tons of money thrown at it. Otherwise I don't really see the appeal. It has damaged us twice & a third time indirectly.

 

 

I’ve completely fallen out of love with the idea of the premier league. It seems completely pointless. It was exciting being among the top 6 in the championship, winning more than we lose, and the occasional trip to Wembley. 

but then if you don’t aim for promotion, what’s the point? It’s a horrible catch 22, you’re obliged to try to get promoted. And it would be nice to go to Wembley and actually win for once. But as soon as we did, we’d just be preparing to get battered again in the premier league.

or maybe I just have ptsd from the last time we were there. 

[JfR]

7 minutes ago, Asanovic70 said:

I  look forward to the Forest signing who admits that it was Hooters, or 'ooters, as Monsieur Biancone pronounces it, that brought him to Nottingham, especially that all you can eat Wings offer on Mondays.

This has reminded me of Bryan Roy's explanation of why he left Nottingham Forest for Hertha Berlin
"Berlin has everything. It is a cosmopolitan city with theatres and the people are open-minded. They are not as narrow-minded like the people in Nottingham. There are no theatres, no cinemas, hardly anything. All Nottingham has is Robin Hood... and he's dead"

Brutal

[Rammy03]

16 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

I’ve completely fallen out of love with the idea of the premier league. It seems completely pointless. It was exciting being among the top 6 in the championship, winning more than we lose, and the occasional trip to Wembley. 

but then if you don’t aim for promotion, what’s the point? It’s a horrible catch 22, you’re obliged to try to get promoted. And it would be nice to go to Wembley and actually win for once. But as soon as we did, we’d just be preparing to get battered again in the premier league.

or maybe I just have ptsd from the last time we were there. 

PTSD. There is hope yet. There are teams who have made the step up from the championship to the premier League. It is not impossible. 

[Sparkle]

2 hours ago, alram said:

oh come on asanovic you are being ridiclous. you are completely right the correct way to get to the premier league is the brentford approach but they cant just turn around and say we are going to be brentford now you have to build it over years. the only option they have is to throw money at it if they are going to compete

 

the reality is there is more financial risk in the championship as we have seen, when was the last time a prem club went out of business

Portsmouth had a really good go with the premiership artificially inflated their accounts to make sure they left the premiership by relegation and not bankruptcy - then the administrators stepped in and nearly finished them off - yes basically the same ones we had.

[Rev]

27 minutes ago, Asanovic70 said:

Exactly, at West Ham, Lingard played well but then he was motivated by the desire to show Man United that he was worth keeping. Maybe the World Cup may inspire him who knows.

I  look forward to the Forest signing who admits that it was Hooters, or 'ooters, as Monsieur Biancone pronounces it, that brought him to Nottingham, especially that all you can eat Wings offer on Mondays.

I like the all you can eat wings offer on Mondays, tbh. 

Although when I get there, it tends to be breasts I have a sudden craving for, for some reason.

[Alph]

1 hour ago, Rammy03 said:

Can't wait till it all comes crashing down ?

Top 8 he said! 

Top bloody 8!! 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

41 minutes ago, JfR said:

This has reminded me of Bryan Roy's explanation of why he left Nottingham Forest for Hertha Berlin
"Berlin has everything. It is a cosmopolitan city with theatres and the people are open-minded. They are not as narrow-minded like the people in Nottingham. There are no theatres, no cinemas, hardly anything. All Nottingham has is Robin Hood... and he's dead"

Brutal

And from Doncaster Bryan, so not even that.  Those Dutch internationals in the 90's were really keen on that place.

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, Asanovic70 said:

I  look forward to the Forest signing who admits that it was Hooters, or 'ooters, as Monsieur Biancone pronounces it, that brought him to Nottingham, especially that all you can eat Wings offer on Mondays.

You could say the same thing about Leicester though. And having lived and worked in both cities for a number of years can honestly say Leicester is an even bigger dump than Nottingham.

But they still manage to attract international players to their side. 

[Asanovic70]

I was being flippant @Tyler Durden, every city/locality has its exclusive areas. You can live posh in the NW (Cheshire) similar to the Surrey stockbroker belt. 

Money is a great lure as well. Footballers are hired guns, they go where the money is. And the PL is where it is compared to other major leagues.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Asanovic70

[Rammy03]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

Top 8 he said! 

Top bloody 8!! 

Ridiculous isn't it.

They somehow think they're better than West Ham, Leicester, Newcastle, Aston Villa, just to name a few, and can mix it with the likes of Arsenal and Manchester United.

Deluded.

[Boycie]

https://soccernet.ng/2022/07/super-eagles-striker-the-centre-of-attraction-as-union-berlin-tackle-nottingham-forest.html
 

lost against a German team.  But, the rain was horizontal to be fair.