Black and White Together

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

[TuffLuff]

1 hour ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Got not strong feelings either way on BAWT. They were obviously wrong to claim that they were “democratically elected”, but that strikes me as something that was thrown in when the website was developed and just left to sit there, rather than outright lying. I haven’t seen them claim to be speak on our behalf either, but I could be wrong. 

Ryan did some excellent work on the #SaveDerbyCounty campaign, but this sudden attack on BAWT seems very odd. We should be doing everything to maintain a united front at this point. I thought he was better than this.

I also thought to begin with the #savederbycounty campaign looked very good and I even promoted it a fair few times on here, when there was a lot of negativity on here or bickering I really thought it might help people through those moments. Thing is as time went on, something seemed off to me when listening in to their town council meetings. After the march they seem to take full credit and were patting themselves on the back (that’s how I felt listening to it anyway) when a lot of work went in through radio derby, DET and supporter groups as well to raise awareness beforehand. Then the meetings just kinda fizzled out with a few half baked ideas that never went anywhere. If I’m being cynical, some PR people can now show that social media campaigns ‘work’ so they can sell their marketing prowess elsewhere.

Could be wrong on that and I would’ve kept that thought to myself usually but by having a go at bawt, who have atleast tried to keep fans informed through this, then I think he deserves a bit back. 

[angieram]

I can't see the point of in-fighting. They are who they are, if you don't like it, un-follow them. 

 

[Day]

19 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

I also thought to begin with the #savederbycounty campaign looked very good and I even promoted it a fair few times on here, when there was a lot of negativity on here or bickering I really thought it might help people through those moments. Thing is as time went on, something seemed off to me when listening in to their town council meetings. After the march they seem to take full credit and were patting themselves on the back (that’s how I felt listening to it anyway) when a lot of work went in through radio derby, DET and supporter groups as well to raise awareness beforehand. Then the meetings just kinda fizzled out with a few half baked ideas that never went anywhere. If I’m being cynical, some PR people can now show that social media campaigns ‘work’ so they can sell their marketing prowess elsewhere.

Could be wrong on that and I would’ve kept that thought to myself usually but by having a go at bawt, who have atleast tried to keep fans informed through this, then I think he deserves a bit back. 

It's difficult on Twitter spaces to keep up the momentum, even that sing your dialect died after 2 weeks and that had national coverage on TV and radio.

The spaces helped raise awareness getting people to contact local MP's, Rick Parry, the match but you sort of reach the point where it's what now.

Saying that I'm mostly going off what I heard, wasn't a regular listener to be honest.

Twitter spaces will probably be gone in a few months, they are dominated by NFT's now and outside of a few vital moments, haven't been a success at all for Twitter.

[Leeds Ram]

I think it's important to ensure that we have democratic and representative bodies to put our viewpoints sincerely to the club and to actually have representatives on bodies that can sniff out if something is going wrong. If lessons are to be learned during Mel's tenure one of them must be that we didn't know enough about the situation and it caught a lot of people (if not everyone) off guard. How to go about doing that seems tricky to me and I don't think Ryan's tactics are useful but it's something that needs to be considered. The attitude of they are who they are and at least they're willing to do it doesn't cut much mustard with me.  

[TuffLuff]

2 minutes ago, David said:

It's difficult on Twitter spaces to keep up the momentum, even that sing your dialect died after 2 weeks and that had national coverage on TV and radio.

The spaces helped raise awareness getting people to contact local MP's, Rick Parry, the match but you sort of reach the point where it's what now.

Saying that I'm mostly going off what I heard, wasn't a regular listener to be honest.

Twitter spaces will probably be gone in a few months, they are dominated by NFT's now and outside of a few vital moments, haven't been a success at all for Twitter.

Good point on Twitter spaces, felt a bit bad after my post to be honest because those early ones were very good and did help make a community feel between the city, the club, the culture, supporters etc. It helped galvanise a fan base that needed direction. i just didn’t particularly like how they came across and it made me cynical of their motives. I also didn’t particularly like seeing such a public approach that was taken with bawt today to be honest. Hence my post, but as you say, it was probably more a loss of momentum and it just came across bad to me!

[therams69]

1 hour ago, TuffLuff said:

I also thought to begin with the #savederbycounty campaign looked very good and I even promoted it a fair few times on here, when there was a lot of negativity on here or bickering I really thought it might help people through those moments. Thing is as time went on, something seemed off to me when listening in to their town council meetings. After the march they seem to take full credit and were patting themselves on the back (that’s how I felt listening to it anyway) when a lot of work went in through radio derby, DET and supporter groups as well to raise awareness beforehand. Then the meetings just kinda fizzled out with a few half baked ideas that never went anywhere. If I’m being cynical, some PR people can now show that social media campaigns ‘work’ so they can sell their marketing prowess elsewhere.

Could be wrong on that and I would’ve kept that thought to myself usually but by having a go at bawt, who have atleast tried to keep fans informed through this, then I think he deserves a bit back. 

Hmm interesting about the march.. My input for what its worth on that...

So a chap called Ryan and a couple of other lads I know (top man is Ryan and was well out his comfort zone!) decided to organise the march. I got wind of it and offered my help and guidance through having contacts with the police, club, radio derby, BBC East Midlands Today etc etc...

We spent the couple of weeks prior speaking to the police (very helpful) and once all agreed I put Ryan in touch with Radio Derby and East Midlands Today. Bit of campaigning on twitter, facebook etc...

I take absolute zero credit for it, I played my part in getting Albatross on board and all the flags down there but just oiled the wheels for Ryan to be speaking to the people who he needed to speak to get the word out there and get the movement going. This was his baby and deserved the praise and credit for it.

So as far as I am concerned no twitter town council meeting was responsible for the march and quite disheartening for Ryan and others should they see this post.

Very much like PR. I do have issue with Mr Bourne and took to twitter this evening to pass my comments on. He never replied publically but took the conversation to private message. No problem with that but perhaps this should have been the first port of call with the original issue.

BAWT and particularly Nigel have been fantastic at the meetings, as have all the supporters groups. We never asked for this and this was certainly not the reason why the charter was setup all these years ago. It is what it is though.

The last thing we need is other groups being called out for politics. As Angie said, for christ sake if you dont like them then dont follow them! We are all adults here..

[TuffLuff]

19 minutes ago, therams69 said:

Hmm interesting about the march.. My input for what its worth on that...

So a chap called Ryan and a couple of other lads I know (top man is Ryan and was well out his comfort zone!) decided to organise the march. I got wind of it and offered my help and guidance through having contacts with the police, club, radio derby, BBC East Midlands Today etc etc...

We spent the couple of weeks prior speaking to the police (very helpful) and once all agreed I put Ryan in touch with Radio Derby and East Midlands Today. Bit of campaigning on twitter, facebook etc...

I take absolute zero credit for it, I played my part in getting Albatross on board and all the flags down there but just oiled the wheels for Ryan to be speaking to the people who he needed to speak to get the word out there and get the movement going. This was his baby and deserved the praise and credit for it.

So as far as I am concerned no twitter town council meeting was responsible for the march and quite disheartening for Ryan and others should they see this post.

Very much like PR. I do have issue with Mr Bourne and took to twitter this evening to pass my comments on. He never replied publically but took the conversation to private message. No problem with that but perhaps this should have been the first port of call with the original issue.

BAWT and particularly Nigel have been fantastic at the meetings, as have all the supporters groups. We never asked for this and this was certainly not the reason why the charter was setup all these years ago. It is what it is though.

The last thing we need is other groups being called out for politics. As Angie said, for christ sake if you dont like them then dont follow them! We are all adults here..

In fairness they were quite complimentary to Ryan and I should have mentioned him in my first post! But what I mean is there were other outlets that were involved and it all came across a bit aggrandising and disingenuous, in my opinion. Like it was the power of social media rather than a lot of different outlets coming together to support the city and club. But as I said to David earlier, that’s just my opinion and I could have read it wrong.

Fully agree this should have been kept behind closed doors.

[Day]

19 minutes ago, therams69 said:

So as far as I am concerned no twitter town council meeting was responsible for the march and quite disheartening for Ryan and others should they see this post.

Whilst they shouldn’t take sole credit, think it’s worth adding they shouldn’t be excluded from any credit for raising awareness.

As you say, the original idea came from Ryan, (not the Ryan from todays tweets), however it was spread across all social media accounts Twitter, Facebook even this forum and the Town Halls to help bring the number of fans together.

Looking back it’s a march that the entire fanbase should be proud of, even looking back at those images today it’s incredible to see the ariel footage.

[Comrade 86]

Deary me! You'd think folk have more important things on their minds right now. Not sure how BAWT could have a democratically elected board first year up anyway as wouldn't they need to actually have a membership first in order for any meaningful vote to take place? I'd assume they'd look to vote from the end of the first year onwards, or whenever they have sufficient followers to make the process worthwhile. 

What does seem rather more meaningful is the work they have done and the speed with which they've most often communicated with us fans. The rest of it feel like silly and embittered spat rooted as much in self-interest as anything more relevant. Quite why folk are so desperate to be on supporter committees anyway, I've literally no idea, especially when you consider how some some folk in the Twatterverse conduct themselves. If ever there was a thankless task... There's nothing to stop folk setting up their own groups either.

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by 86 Hair Islands
typo

[Chester40]

46 minutes ago, therams69 said:

Hmm interesting about the march.. My input for what its worth on that...

So a chap called Ryan and a couple of other lads I know (top man is Ryan and was well out his comfort zone!) decided to organise the march. I got wind of it and offered my help and guidance through having contacts with the police, club, radio derby, BBC East Midlands Today etc etc...

We spent the couple of weeks prior speaking to the police (very helpful) and once all agreed I put Ryan in touch with Radio Derby and East Midlands Today. Bit of campaigning on twitter, facebook etc...

I take absolute zero credit for it, I played my part in getting Albatross on board and all the flags down there but just oiled the wheels for Ryan to be speaking to the people who he needed to speak to get the word out there and get the movement going. This was his baby and deserved the praise and credit for it.

So as far as I am concerned no twitter town council meeting was responsible for the march and quite disheartening for Ryan and others should they see this post.

Very much like PR. I do have issue with Mr Bourne and took to twitter this evening to pass my comments on. He never replied publically but took the conversation to private message. No problem with that but perhaps this should have been the first port of call with the original issue.

BAWT and particularly Nigel have been fantastic at the meetings, as have all the supporters groups. We never asked for this and this was certainly not the reason why the charter was setup all these years ago. It is what it is though.

The last thing we need is other groups being called out for politics. As Angie said, for christ sake if you dont like them then dont follow them! We are all adults here..

'Success has many fathers, whilst failure is an orphan'.

[Ram1988]

We need to rally round to save our club together, not fighting each about supporter groups. We need to make sure we have a club to support afterall....

[Yani P]

[tinman]

I’m launching a new group to unite fans groups. Just me and a mate democratically elected ourselves to the committee. 
we’ll be called Rams Are Black And White Together Trust Us. 
 

there was a third person but we didn’t vote him on to the committee. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

10 hours ago, angieram said:

I can't see the point of in-fighting. They are who they are, if you don't like it, un-follow them. 

 

I think there is a time and a place for making sure fan group are honest and transparent. Claiming they were democratically elected was wrong, and being so opaque about who’s involved in the group probably isn’t the way to go.

I just thought Ryan made his point at a bad time and in a very strange way. More in response to being personally criticised by BAWT members than with the good of the club at heart.

Edited March 12, 2022 by DarkFruitsRam7

[DarkFruitsRam7]

8 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

I also thought to begin with the #savederbycounty campaign looked very good and I even promoted it a fair few times on here, when there was a lot of negativity on here or bickering I really thought it might help people through those moments. Thing is as time went on, something seemed off to me when listening in to their town council meetings. After the march they seem to take full credit and were patting themselves on the back (that’s how I felt listening to it anyway) when a lot of work went in through radio derby, DET and supporter groups as well to raise awareness beforehand. Then the meetings just kinda fizzled out with a few half baked ideas that never went anywhere. If I’m being cynical, some PR people can now show that social media campaigns ‘work’ so they can sell their marketing prowess elsewhere.

Could be wrong on that and I would’ve kept that thought to myself usually but by having a go at bawt, who have atleast tried to keep fans informed through this, then I think he deserves a bit back. 

 

6 hours ago, therams69 said:

Hmm interesting about the march.. My input for what its worth on that...

So a chap called Ryan and a couple of other lads I know (top man is Ryan and was well out his comfort zone!) decided to organise the march. I got wind of it and offered my help and guidance through having contacts with the police, club, radio derby, BBC East Midlands Today etc etc...

We spent the couple of weeks prior speaking to the police (very helpful) and once all agreed I put Ryan in touch with Radio Derby and East Midlands Today. Bit of campaigning on twitter, facebook etc...

I take absolute zero credit for it, I played my part in getting Albatross on board and all the flags down there but just oiled the wheels for Ryan to be speaking to the people who he needed to speak to get the word out there and get the movement going. This was his baby and deserved the praise and credit for it.

So as far as I am concerned no twitter town council meeting was responsible for the march and quite disheartening for Ryan and others should they see this post.

Very much like PR. I do have issue with Mr Bourne and took to twitter this evening to pass my comments on. He never replied publically but took the conversation to private message. No problem with that but perhaps this should have been the first port of call with the original issue.

BAWT and particularly Nigel have been fantastic at the meetings, as have all the supporters groups. We never asked for this and this was certainly not the reason why the charter was setup all these years ago. It is what it is though.

The last thing we need is other groups being called out for politics. As Angie said, for christ sake if you dont like them then dont follow them! We are all adults here..

While this is obviously all subjective, I wouldn’t say they took any credit for the march. Perhaps other stuff around it (E.g. lobbying MPs and pundits, which they really were a driving force behind), but I can’t recall them talking themselves up on the march.

Mind you, this process has dragged on so long it seems like ancient history now, so I’ve probably forgotten half of it!

Edited March 12, 2022 by DarkFruitsRam7

[angieram]

10 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

I think it's important to ensure that we have democratic and representative bodies to put our viewpoints sincerely to the club and to actually have representatives on bodies that can sniff out if something is going wrong. If lessons are to be learned during Mel's tenure one of them must be that we didn't know enough about the situation and it caught a lot of people (if not everyone) off guard. How to go about doing that seems tricky to me and I don't think Ryan's tactics are useful but it's something that needs to be considered. The attitude of they are who they are and at least they're willing to do it doesn't cut much mustard with me.  

I can understand that. I worked in the charity sector for 35 years, where everything is done democratically. I was paid to represent the views of a whole sector at the highest local planning level for 20 years and it was always a fine balancing act, responding to very diverse views and putting over the majority opinion, even when I didn't agree with it! It was also very time consuming and I spent a lot of time listening to people so that when I was put on the spot at meetings to give an instant response without time for consultation, I had a good instinct for the 'right' path to take.

I also made myself unpopular with the very people that funded me at times to the extent I wondered whether we'd become de-funded. Thankfully we didn't. 

It's a difficult role and I only found out what people had really thought of the job I had been doing when I retired.

For this reason, I have become involved with Rams Trust, because, they are the democratically elected representatives of the supporter base, recognised by and registered with the FSA. They have elections, a set of rules with clear aims and objectives, and a mechanism that enables them to have dialogue with their members in ascertaining views that they take to supporters group meetings. All of this takes time, effort and moves much more slowly than the instant @twitter generation demands, which is why it is so frustrating to some. 

I was interested to read @David's views on this, having been thrust into that representation role by virtue of the great work he did creating this forum. Boy did he get some stick for it, despite every attempt to seek a range of views whenever he was called to meetings.

I wonder whether Nick the flagman  has as much stick when he attends? I suspect not. It's almost like the more democratic you attempt to be, the more stick you get for it.

Anyway, I'm sad David packed it up because I thought he did an excellent job, but all the reps have been placed in impossible positions at times by the club recently.

I quite like the fact that the Supporters Charter Group is a wide variety of individuals, so that people have a range of options about who and how they lobby for a voice. If some of the choices are a bit less democratic than others I can live with that, even though it is my choice to choose the democratic option. 

We're all Derby, aren't we?

 

[Dimmu]

9 hours ago, therams69 said:

We are all adults here..

 

21 minutes ago, angieram said:

We're all Derby, aren't we?

Two excellent and thoughful writings, just to be ruined in the last sentence with too high demands ?

[Crewton]

I asked Jesus what he would do about that unfilled 13th seat on the BAWT committee and he went very quiet...... ?

[Boycie]

9 hours ago, angieram said:

I can understand that. I worked in the charity sector for 35 years, where everything is done democratically. I was paid to represent the views of a whole sector at the highest local planning level for 20 years and it was always a fine balancing act, responding to very diverse views and putting over the majority opinion, even when I didn't agree with it! It was also very time consuming and I spent a lot of time listening to people so that when I was put on the spot at meetings to give an instant response without time for consultation, I had a good instinct for the 'right' path to take.

I also made myself unpopular with the very people that funded me at times to the extent I wondered whether we'd become de-funded. Thankfully we didn't. 

It's a difficult role and I only found out what people had really thought of the job I had been doing when I retired.

For this reason, I have become involved with Rams Trust, because, they are the democratically elected representatives of the supporter base, recognised by and registered with the FSA. They have elections, a set of rules with clear aims and objectives, and a mechanism that enables them to have dialogue with their members in ascertaining views that they take to supporters group meetings. All of this takes time, effort and moves much more slowly than the instant @twitter generation demands, which is why it is so frustrating to some. 

I was interested to read @David's views on this, having been thrust into that representation role by virtue of the great work he did creating this forum. Boy did he get some stick for it, despite every attempt to seek a range of views whenever he was called to meetings.

I wonder whether Nick the flagman  has as much stick when he attends? I suspect not. It's almost like the more democratic you attempt to be, the more stick you get for it.

Anyway, I'm sad David packed it up because I thought he did an excellent job, but all the reps have been placed in impossible positions at times by the club recently.

I quite like the fact that the Supporters Charter Group is a wide variety of individuals, so that people have a range of options about who and how they lobby for a voice. If some of the choices are a bit less democratic than others I can live with that, even though it is my choice to choose the democratic option. 

We're all Derby, aren't we?

 

Yes, he went to lots of meetings ?