A refereeing conspiracy?

[Ram-Alf]

2 hours ago, Wazztie16 said:

If a referee misses a key match incident (KMI), it definitely doesn't work in their favour, so referees don't want to miss the calls, unfortunately sometimes due to their angle, they do. 

That's why there is VAR in the Premier League, Even the Referee who was watching it on screen where there are several angles refused to send the official to take a look Tierneys get out of jail free card was VAR, But VAR failed or should I say the official failed.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/mar/01/mike-riley-apologises-to-everton-for-mistake-in-not-spotting-rodri-handball

The officials that run the line are as bad if not worse, They'll SEE an incident but bottle it as the Referee didn't blow his whistle 1st.

[Wazztie16]

7 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

That's why there is VAR in the Premier League, Even the Referee who was watching it on screen where there are several angles refused to send the official to take a look Tierneys get out of jail free card was VAR, But VAR failed or should I say the official failed.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/mar/01/mike-riley-apologises-to-everton-for-mistake-in-not-spotting-rodri-handball

The officials that run the line are as bad if not worse, They'll SEE an incident but bottle it as the Referee didn't blow his whistle 1st.

It's not necessarily the assistant referee(s) bottling it, it's likely that they don't feel they're in a credible position to give the offence, so told not to flag. Or it could be that the Referee is happy to take the flack from players if they've said no foul down the comms, for example, a lot of things that fans don't see or think about come into play. 

 

It's just annoying that we don't know what's said or what the assistant is thinking. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Thought the ref was fine last night, and I don't buy into the conspiracy. The only one that would even come close to making me wonder was the ref for Millwall at home, who handled their time-wasting appallingly. I still think that was mere incompetence though.

[Ram-Alf]

18 minutes ago, Wazztie16 said:

It's not necessarily the assistant referee(s) bottling it, it's likely that they don't feel they're in a credible position to give the offence, so told not to flag. Or it could be that the Referee is happy to take the flack from players if they've said no foul down the comms, for example, a lot of things that fans don't see or think about come into play. 

 

It's just annoying that we don't know what's said or what the assistant is thinking. 

So we have Referees who can't make a descision because "sometimes of their angle", And assistant referees who are not in a "credible position", God help us

[Ghost of Clough]

I don't think it's anything deliberate, but I do think there's an element of subconscious bias against 'cheating' Derby.

[angieram]

16 hours ago, DCFC1388 said:

I get its a hard job and majority if not all refs are poor in the EFL but some of the decisions have been very poor. Even going back to the end of last season.

All I will say on tonight is if the roles were reversed & their man went down on the edge of the box it would be a free kick, and if CKR did to Flint what Ikpeazu did to Davies it would have been a Cardiff freekick.

Conspiracy, who knows, but I do feel like we get a lot of poor decisions against us. Seems very easy for decisions to be given against us.

Roos, never a red, Rooney confirmed we got an email to confirm & an apology but its too late then. Morrisons wasnt a red, Stearmans more likely a yellow than a red, but if Morrison & Stearman is a red then so is Crooks on Bird.

He was blowing for free kicks against Kazim all the time. No idea what most of em were for but I did feel quite sorry for their weakling centre halves who were struggling to even rip the shirt off the bully Kaz's back at each set piece. Glad the referee gave them some protection! ?

[LittleEatonRam]

I'm not normally one for this kind of stuff but it has felt for a while as though our putting up such a good fight was not what certain parties had in mind with all this. It's as though there's a general desire to punish us more and more.

[B4ev6is]

17 hours ago, IslandExile said:

Well Wayne seems to have signed up to the idea judging by his comments in the Sky interview after tonight's game against Cardiff.

I don't agree with it myself. I think it was 50-50 and Curtis should have been stronger. We would have wanted the goal if the situation had been reversed. Remember Bielik's overhead kick, anyone? That could equally well have been disallowed.

Some decisions just go with the home team. Always have. Always will.

I do think referees are inconsistent. Not just from one ref to another, but the same referee during the same game is often inconsistent with their decision making.

Again, I don't think it's a conspiracy. Just incompetence.

And I'm not even blaming them that much. It's a terribly difficult job and I wouldn't want to do it.

Everyone should realise that without the officials, there'd be no game. We should be more respectful and more grateful.

One final thing, VAR should be thrown out. It certainly hasn't solved anything, just made it all worse. Killing the passion as players and supporters wait to celebrate a goal. Decisions that are just as controversial after review as they were before. Taking responsibility away from the ref does not help improve their decision making

Nope, not the answer. I think the answer would be to retrain ex-players who know the game.

I have to disagree with you there is a conspiracy if there was not there goal would be would have not been given and we should had a pently in the game against cardiff.

[Jimbo Ram]

17 hours ago, IslandExile said:

Well Wayne seems to have signed up to the idea judging by his comments in the Sky interview after tonight's game against Cardiff.

I don't agree with it myself. I think it was 50-50 and Curtis should have been stronger. We would have wanted the goal if the situation had been reversed. Remember Bielik's overhead kick, anyone? That could equally well have been disallowed.

Some decisions just go with the home team. Always have. Always will.

I do think referees are inconsistent. Not just from one ref to another, but the same referee during the same game is often inconsistent with their decision making.

Again, I don't think it's a conspiracy. Just incompetence.

And I'm not even blaming them that much. It's a terribly difficult job and I wouldn't want to do it.

Everyone should realise that without the officials, there'd be no game. We should be more respectful and more grateful.

One final thing, VAR should be thrown out. It certainly hasn't solved anything, just made it all worse. Killing the passion as players and supporters wait to celebrate a goal. Decisions that are just as controversial after review as they were before. Taking responsibility away from the ref does not help improve their decision making

Nope, not the answer. I think the answer would be to retrain ex-players who know the game.

We don't seem to complain about the ref when we win.....

[rynny]

5 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

For the first 80 minutes I felt the ref was one of the best we've had all season with him being very fair for both sides and got pretty much every decision right.
Then Ikpeazu started imposing himself and the ref started letting a few decisions go Cardiff's way.

Still one of the best refs all season.

I thought the first 10 minutes he was terrible, the "foul" at our first corner any ideas? No one was on the floor, there was no one appealing from Cardiff, couldn't see anything it could have been given for. Then there was Buchanan's "foul" when jumping next to their wing back, barely any contact, certainly less than Ikpeazu on Davies, which was followed by Hugill taking Buchanan out after he had headed the ball and nothing given. Which, for me, set the tone of the night, Hugill got away with a lot, and Ikpeazu carried it on.

[Inverurie Ram]

What suprises me most about this thread, is that a certain forum member that highlights every ref we get in every match thread has not posted on this thread yet. 

I still haven't got over the two stone wall penalties we didn't get against Notts Forest at home.

It would be great if someone edited all the shocking decisions that have gone against us this season in to a You Tube video, and highlighted the potential points lost because of them. A guy called Derby Videos or something used to post on here could create videos, anyone else fancy doing it?

The video could also include the decisions we have add in our favour, and I'm sure if all the major ref decisions were listed in one post, for and against, I'm sure yet again, like so many previous seasons, especially this season, the decisions against us would be far greater than the decisions that have gone in our favour.

We also have to take into consideration that officials are half man half biscuit or brad pit or whatever rhyming slang you prefer.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Did the ref also force us to attempt to keep the ball from going out for a throw in and in doing so give the ball straight to a Cardiff player whom then crossed the ball in for them to score. 

 

[roosram]

11 hours ago, BrudeRAM said:

Disappointing to see the Wayne rant, I thought the replay didn't show enough for the Festy foul. Putting aside everything happening off the pitch, we only have ourselves to blame for last night. Dominated possession all game and created 1 clear cut chance. Not good enough. We’re in a hole and the only way out is bravery (which we’re not short of) to get your head up and play the ball forward or run at your man at times. Too many occasions yesterday where Plange is through if we play it, we’re on the edge of the box and refuse to hit it or we’ve got a fullback/winger in a one-on-one and we’ve come backwards. Need to do better if we’re to stay up.

Exactly this.  So frustrating to see and Plange must be tearing his hair out at times.

[DavesaRam]

it  might be worth noting that when Graham Halsey wrote his book, he included that the Premier League used to "lean" on match officials to favour the bigger teams. This from one of the top referees of his day. Would Halsey dare to put this into print if he didn't have any evidence, without leaving himself wide open to litigation? And if the Premiership got up this sort of thing, why not the EFL, who are already soiled with all manner of dubious activities?

Someone has asked what benefit the referees get from complying. Well here is a rather obvious one: they get to keep "in" with the refereeing authorities, from whom the refs get their match appointments.

[MickD]

20 hours ago, IslandExile said:

Well Wayne seems to have signed up to the idea judging by his comments in the Sky interview after tonight's game against Cardiff.

I don't agree with it myself. I think it was 50-50 and Curtis should have been stronger. We would have wanted the goal if the situation had been reversed. Remember Bielik's overhead kick, anyone? That could equally well have been disallowed.

Some decisions just go with the home team. Always have. Always will.

I do think referees are inconsistent. Not just from one ref to another, but the same referee during the same game is often inconsistent with their decision making.

Again, I don't think it's a conspiracy. Just incompetence.

And I'm not even blaming them that much. It's a terribly difficult job and I wouldn't want to do it.

Everyone should realise that without the officials, there'd be no game. We should be more respectful and more grateful.

One final thing, VAR should be thrown out. It certainly hasn't solved anything, just made it all worse. Killing the passion as players and supporters wait to celebrate a goal. Decisions that are just as controversial after review as they were before. Taking responsibility away from the ref does not help improve their decision making

Nope, not the answer. I think the answer would be to retrain ex-players who know the game.

Judging by some of the comments by ex-players, now pundits, there is no guarantee that they would understand the rules.  e.g..  when a player is tripped or held when the ball is getting away from him  they will say "He was never going to get it anyway".  Doesn't matter where the ball is if an offence is committed, the freekick/penalty is where the offence occurred.  When the Cardiff centre forward ran 25 yards to run into Curtis Davies to stop him getting back to cover, a free kick should have been given, the ball nowhere near them. If the officials saw the collision of course.

For the goal it could have gone either way, but, Davies allowed himself to be "rag dolled" out of the way.

[Ram-Alf]

8 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

it  might be worth noting that when Graham Halsey wrote his book, he included that the Premier League used to "lean" on match officials to favour the bigger teams. This from one of the top referees of his day. Would Halsey dare to put this into print if he didn't have any evidence, without leaving himself wide open to litigation? And if the Premiership got up this sort of thing, why not the EFL, who are already soiled with all manner of dubious activities?

Someone has asked what benefit the referees get from complying. Well here is a rather obvious one: they get to keep "in" with the refereeing authorities, from whom the refs get their match appointments.

IMO the football authoritys have been "leaning on referees for decades, It's not a case of a phone call or a nudge nudge wink wink, It's a practice of the Referee not wanting to upset "the establishment" so they keep their "favoured status" as you rightly put Dave.

[MickD]

5 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:

That's why there is VAR in the Premier League, Even the Referee who was watching it on screen where there are several angles refused to send the official to take a look Tierneys get out of jail free card was VAR, But VAR failed or should I say the official failed.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/mar/01/mike-riley-apologises-to-everton-for-mistake-in-not-spotting-rodri-handball

The officials that run the line are as bad if not worse, They'll SEE an incident but bottle it as the Referee didn't blow his whistle 1st.

I have run the line many times and it is often more difficult than being in the middle.  Offsides in a noisy stadium with the speed of the players relies on good peripheral vision to see the ball kicked and the player in an offside position at the same time.   In a local park you can often cheat by hearing the ball kicked and watching the forward.  Of course you are often running at speed in order to keep up with the second last defender  trying to get back to cover.

You are right of course that assistants should be positive in their decisions in their segment of the field and the ref should always be able to see their assistant through the ongoing play if he is running his diagonal correctly.

[Yani P]

Last night should have been straightforward .it was an obvious foul on Festy .free kick Derby in a dangerous position..the breakaway would never have existed.

One thing about Festy he goes down far too often and far too easily..doesn't take long for a player to get that reputation with officials and often means you don't get the free kicks when you are actually fouled.

[MickD]

7 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

IMO the football authoritys have been "leaning on referees for decades, It's not a case of a phone call or a nudge nudge wink wink, It's a practice of the Referee not wanting to upset "the establishment" so they keep their "favoured status" as you rightly put Dave.

I have a friend who was a FIFA ref.in Canada.  He told me that the English FA told refs that "People pay big money to watch star players, do you best to keep them on the field"  We have all seen the "stars" get away with warnings and cautions when others will be more heavily penalised.

[Ram-Alf]

3 minutes ago, MickD said:

I have run the line many times and it is often more difficult than being in the middle.  Offsides in a noisy stadium with the speed of the players relies on good peripheral vision to see the ball kicked and the player in an offside position at the same time.   In a local park you can often cheat by hearing the ball kicked and watching the forward.  Of course you are often running at speed in order to keep up with the second last defender  trying to get back to cover.

You are right of course that assistants should be positive in their decisions in their segment of the field and the ref should always be able to see their assistant through the ongoing play if he is running his diagonal correctly.

I've refereed and ran the line, I did a League Cup final at the Municipal Bowl in Derby in my mid 30s after hanging my football boots up, I know how difficult a job it can be, Especially when some players do not know the laws of the game.

It aint difficult if you keep in line with the defence when offside is concerned, You're not looking through a telescope, Peoples vision is more than good enough to see when a ball is played and when a player is forward of a defender.

Distractions can and do have an effect, When visiting family in Enfield we'd go and watch Barnet FC, You can touch the linesman, And the abuse they got made even me blush