The Administration Thread

[alram]

1 hour ago, Carl Sagan said:

Surely at this point, with next season's division still up in the air, there will be no preferred bidder and no sale? It's a question of waiting until we're definitely down or, unlikely but still possible, definitely up. If the latter it means almost certainly waiting until the end of the final game. 

In turn this informs the decision as to whether take a further 15 point deduction next season or stick to a business plan that sees the EFL maintain its financial straitjacket in an attempt to relegate us again. 

No options are good, with the additional pain of nothing happening for 3 more months unless we become cast adrift of safety. Need a little patience while the thread builds to 2000 pages. 

i worry that the division really doesnt make that much of a difference at all. the debts we are running up to even try and stay in the division are worrying and it would just be the difference between league one and championship anyway. huge investment will be needed next season to even stay up again and we are not in a position to do that.

 

what we should have done from minute 1 is try to make the club as cheap to buy as possible as survival as a club was always first goal, i feel like Q have just chased survival on the pitch and for it i worry. Why would you not sell more players to cover the costs to see out the season, instead we are in a position where we are having to take out loans to see the next month instead adding costs to the buyer. 

 

i know fans wont like it but pragmatism was needed from minute one, they have taken completely the wrong approach and i am looking at this with my financial hat on. they are not doing all they can to ensure this club lives another day.

[alram]

1 minute ago, Crewton said:

It's already been stated by Quantuma that any final agreement with HMRC can only be done by the Preferred Bidder, so this is yet more speculative bollo.

and yet there is no preferred bidder. so if its not the hmrc bill, then what is holding it up? 

 

Q have stated a lot of things. how many of them have come to pass.

[Tamworthram]

49 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Rather a lot of people making stuff up lately 

What do you mean "lately"? ?

[Crewton]

4 minutes ago, alram said:

and yet there is no preferred bidder. so if its not the hmrc bill, then what is holding it up? 

 

Q have stated a lot of things. how many of them have come to pass.

HMRC will have discussions with Administrators, but they won't "do deals" with anyone except the prospective purchaser, as they will effectively assuming liability for the debt and paying whatever is agreed. So there's no deal with HMRC to announce yet.

The announcement of a PB could indeed be down to the fact that no-one is yet offering enough to be granted that position, given what Quantuma know HMRC would be willing to accept in quantum or payment plans, or it could be that each bid has different terms for debt repayment and future funding that need further negotiation/clarification, or even that new potential buyers have emerged (though I think this latter possibility is a slim one).

Pushing one narrative when you have no inside information is pointless.

[PistoldPete]

39 minutes ago, winktheram said:

They say the clue is in question, or answer in this case. At some point, which is now probably the end of the season as we have funding till then, we will have to accept 'a deal/best deal' and take the -15 and crack on. We can't start next season in admin so something will give. It's that balance for a bidder, is -15 in League one, a division we are likely to be in anyway, offer value in saving say £10M?. On the face of it I would say yes. £10M (or whatever, £5M even) goes a long way in League 1, new squad which will be needed as no-one is left, re-supplying the academy etc etc - for an extra year or two in League 1 to get a decent ground zero base and then push on. On balance, if I was bidding, I think I'd save the money and take the points/wait and see if the miracle happens and we stay up. Can't see a quick resolution given that answer from Q.

We can start next season in admin. It’s not ideal but there is nothing says we cannot. 
 

I think maximum Efl would allow is 15 months which takes us to Christmas.

[Woodley Ram]

2 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

We can start next season in admin. It’s not ideal but there is nothing says we cannot. 
 

I think maximum Efl would allow is 15 months which takes us to Christmas.

I'm sure it will all be sorted soon. A brighter future is on the way. The delay could be a good thing, in that perhaps a better bidder   has come forwards, who knows.

[alram]

4 minutes ago, Crewton said:

HMRC will have discussions with Administrators, but they won't "do deals" with anyone except the prospective purchaser, as they will effectively assuming liability for the debt and paying whatever is agreed. So there's no deal with HMRC to announce yet.

The announcement of a PB could indeed be down to the fact that no-one is yet offering enough to be granted that position, given what Quantuma know HMRC would be willing to accept in quantum or payment plans, or it could be that each bid has different terms for debt repayment and future funding that need further negotiation/clarification, or even that new potential buyers have emerged (though I think this latter possibility is a slim one).

Pushing one narrative when you have no inside information is pointless.

just saying it as i am seeing it crewton. we just differ in opinions.

 

if there was a deal to be done the PF would have been named by now. my instinct tells me they are playing hardball and thus no PF bidder can be named. Don't forget PF is the starting point. we are not even allowed to get around the table.

 

you know what Q could do to reduce speculation and narrative? tell us the truth, why is naming a PF proving so difficult. it should be one of the easiest parts of the process

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, Carl Sagan said:

Surely at this point, with next season's division still up in the air, there will be no preferred bidder and no sale? It's a question of waiting until we're definitely down or, unlikely but still possible, definitely up. If the latter it means almost certainly waiting until the end of the final game. 

In turn this informs the decision as to whether take a further 15 point deduction next season or stick to a business plan that sees the EFL maintain its financial straitjacket in an attempt to relegate us again. 

No options are good, with the additional pain of nothing happening for 3 more months unless we become cast adrift of safety. Need a little patience while the thread builds to 2000 pages. 

Seems likely this is the uncertainty leading to the delay. But given Putin’s state of mind Q takes a risk by allowing further slippage. So (assuming you’re right) Q needs to focus on signing an SPA on terms that accommodate the two scenarios and avoiding a points deduction in each case 

[kevinhectoring]

9 minutes ago, Crewton said:

HMRC will have discussions with Administrators, but they won't "do deals" with anyone except the prospective purchaser, as they will effectively assuming liability for the debt and paying whatever is agreed. So there's no deal with HMRC to announce yet.

Don’t agree. I think HMRC has told the admins what principles it applies in the case of a community asset. When a deal with PB is agreed, the admins and HMRC will sit down and apply those principles to the specifics of the deal.  And HMRC’s claims will be compromised with those of other creditors prior to exit and sale 

[CornwallRam]

14 minutes ago, alram said:

and yet there is no preferred bidder. so if its not the hmrc bill, then what is holding it up? 

 

Q have stated a lot of things. how many of them have come to pass.

Logically, it has to be the non-fixed costs. The admin costs, post admin loan and football creditors are fixed, so all bidders must have agreed to them, or they are no longer bidders.

Then there a fairly straightforward 25/35% to the unsecured creditors or a 15 point penalty. Not a particularly complicated choice.

HMRC is obviously a negotiable cost, so it could well be that.

The other option is the stadium and MSD loan. To me, that looks super complicated. There's a charge which covers both club and stadium...Mel owns one and not the other. Then there's the question of whether to buy or lease the stadium, but if it's the latter, there could still be charge against the club. Then there's the question of how much Mel is willing to sell the stadium for - £10m and pay the £10m off himself? £20m and end up with zero after the loan is paid? £30m and recoup some of his money?

So, imo, it has to come down to HMRC, the stadium or both.

[Ken Tram]

Was the bidding specification ever publicised, i.e. whatever prospective bidders had to bid against?

I assume that the bid included a headline amount!!! But I suspect that a range of information may have been requested - giving scope for lots of details to be clarified.

I thought I'd ask, in case such a document is available. It might make it easier to understand the duration of this "clarification phase".

Edited March 10, 2022 by Ken Tram

[Ram-Alf]

31 minutes ago, alram said:

and yet there is no preferred bidder. so if its not the hmrc bill, then what is holding it up? 

 

 

Only guessing here...PBs are waiting untill the end of the season, Why pay 10s of millions if we're relegated, When you can pay multi millions less if relegation or liquidation.

It's a buyers market in a cellars game, Too many people whining ?

[Rev]

25 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

We can start next season in admin. It’s not ideal but there is nothing says we cannot. 
 

I think maximum Efl would allow is 15 months which takes us to Christmas.

I think the only rule the EFL have is you can't start consecutive seasons in Administration.

[Bigfella]

4 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Only guessing here...PBs are waiting untill the end of the season, Why pay 10s of millions if we're relegated, When you can pay multi millions less if relegation or liquidation.

It's a buyers market in a cellars game, Too many people whining ?

Is that why the Administrator has gone underground?

[Kernow]

Thank god a London-based Premier League club is in trouble because now there’s commitment to protect them.

 

[alram]

15 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Only guessing here...PBs are waiting untill the end of the season, Why pay 10s of millions if we're relegated, When you can pay multi millions less if relegation or liquidation.

It's a buyers market in a cellars game, Too many people whining ?

we were saying the same near the end of last season

[alram]

29 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

HMRC is obviously a negotiable cost, so it could well be that.

is it obvious? because all the noises around hmrc and the new ruling would suggest that its not negotiable? they went through the courts to get the ruling, they wont throw it out on the first case

[Ram-Alf]

3 minutes ago, alram said:

we were saying the same near the end of last season

Hhhmmm, We weren't in Admin near end of last season ?‍♂️

[Jimbo Ram]

21 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Only guessing here...PBs are waiting untill the end of the season, Why pay 10s of millions if we're relegated, When you can pay multi millions less if relegation or liquidation.

It's a buyers market in a cellars game, Too many people whining ?

In that case, begs the question why are they looking to buy the club in the first place? Surely the only way owners will get a return on their investment is if we end up in the Premier League? Waiting to see us relegated/liquidated with a potential 15 point deduction seems a long way off from achieving that.....

[hintonsboots]

Owt from Nixon recently?