The Administration Thread

[PistoldPete]

47 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

Had lots of debts written off and different rules for HMRC I think. Hopefully DcFC can survive 

I don’t think Hmrc is the problem necessarily for us just the overall level of debt. The difference for us is the Boro and Wycombe claims and the Efl charges so the process didn’t really start properly until February. 

[Brammie Steve]

DCFC or Boris.

Which has the greater chance of survival?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

You and I both know that Gibson’s intention was to ensure we were seriously damaged. Which is why he held out until after the window closed. Bye bye Jags.  

So I’ll repeat it: Singing the ‘we can stay up’ refrain at the top of his voice was not smart. That’s my only point Roy 

Absolutely ridiculous point. Rooney was doing that to motivate his team and the supporters- I don’t expect that he even gave Gibson headroom at the time. He held this club together through outstanding leadership this season ad gave us hope. Without him we would have had a miserable season but instead we witnessed some absolutely outstanding performances at Pride Park from a young team fighting against impossible odds. 

Unforgettable performance are usually associated with promotion seasons but we got to see them in a relegation season. Those performances will be talked about until everyone who saw them has passed on just like the performances from the two League Championship teams are still talked about.

it is absolutely bonkers to try to level criticism at Rooney for any of this debacle.

Where were you when all of this was going on? We’re your hibernating?

 

 

[hintonsboots]

2 minutes ago, Brammie Steve said:

DCFC or Boris.

Which has the greater chance of survival?

Both 100%.

[May Contain Nuts]

2 hours ago, Topram said:

Whilst we wasted 2 months on him no one else could make a bid due to exclusivity? 

I'm guessing a bit / a lot here and not claiming to be correct, just thinking aloud,  but...

They would have been perfectly entitled to make a bid at any point, it just couldn't go anywhere until CK's period of exclusivity ended.

I don't think back around March/April there was a point where any bidder would engage without being offered exclusivity, so no matter who we went with a number of other bidder would have been locked out. That period should have ended the second CK failed to pay by the contracted date, but as we aren't privy to whatever documents may have been used to verify CK's claims we'll simply never know the reasons why it wasn't.

Nevertheless, I think there's a chance the bids we're apparently seeing now could have been on the table ready and waiting for the second CK's bid fell through, but instead of of making an actual bid these other parties chose to bitch and moan through the media about not being contacted, even though at that stage they couldn't be contacted. This of course also contributes to time wasted.

----------------

When the EFL put out the statement saying they wanted to be involved in all of the future discussions there was, amongst some quarters, a collective cheer that Quantuma now had nowhere to hide. Their 'incompetence' would be shown up, the EFL vindicated in their concerns, things would move on at a rapid rate.

We've already got numerous posts (albeit it just 4 days later) with people questioning why things are still not moving as quickly as they believe they should.

I do wonder if despite perhaps the EFL's own bluster and the outside view that they'd "sort Quantuma out", now they can see exactly what is going on they may just be thinking "Oh poop, yeah, we can see why this was taking so long now".

Perhaps things WILL move more quickly from this point on, I certainly hope so.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Coconut's Beard

[Curtains]

Edited 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Curtains
Link had already been posted

[BramcoteRam84]

1 hour ago, hintonsboots said:

So the Appleby led consortium placed a bid early yesterday which has been described as highly competitive ( whatever that means) . So what have Q been up to in the last 30 hours or so ? Trying to squeeze more out of the other interested parties I presume?

 

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

Maybe they're presenting the offer to the creditors for approval.

Both possible, definitely what @hintonsboots is saying from what I’ve been told. Some people late to the party giving them the chance to make bids. Everyone is focussed on the end game, all parties know there isn’t much time so it focusses minds to get something done. I don’t know who is front runner or anything like that (although from reports you would guess Appleby), just there is lots of activity going on, as you would expect with the situation being so critical. 

[Oldben]

In a game of chess, this would be checkmate for Q.

They cant sell the club, because the creditors, on whose behalf they are working, require a certain amount of cash to pass the deal.

Q know exactly what that amount of money is.

None of the buyers appear to be willing to offer an amount that meets that requirement, but we dont know why Q are not telling the potential bidders not to place a bid unless it meets that minimum requirement.

If the club had an owner, the owner could decide to sell the club for less money, but Q is not the owner they are the appointed administrators and their goal is different from an owner, its to make sure that the creditors get the best possible deal.

Complicating that process is the efl, the efl are crushing Derby.

The efl could remove their rule from being used against Derby, they could in fact make it possible for the club to be sold, but the efl are not in the business of not throwing their weight around.

The efl want to say that they have made an example of Derby County, they are now heavily involved in the process because they want to make sure that the bidders apply the efl's own creditors rule, they want to be certain that the buyer must abide by that ruling.

A potential 15 points deductions will only be imposed on Derby if a new purchaser cannot meet the terms of the EFL insolvency policy of 25p in £ on exit or 35p in £ over three years (to unsecured creditors). 

The EFL demand that the buyer meets that condition.

And there we have it, an impasse or checkmate if we were playing chess, no possibility of a move without one of the sides giving in.

The buyers want to offer less.

The government isn't willing to force HMRC to take less money in terms of the debt that Derby need to repay, they want to make an example to other football clubs and their debts but to the derby county fans, they want to say that they are doing all they can to try and save the club.

The efl want to make an example to other football clubs by demanding that the terrms of their insolvency policy is met.

The buyers want to offer less.

Q accepted the fantasy offer from Kirchner, a fantasy because it looks like he was never going to honour that amount, he just wanted to be the preferred buyer, in my opinion he wasnt the best buyer for the club as he had no football ownership experience.

 

 

 

[BramcoteRam84]

7 minutes ago, Oldben said:

In a game of chess, this would be checkmate for Q.

They cant sell the club, because the creditors, on whose behalf they are working, require a certain amount of cash to pass the deal.

Q know exactly what that amount of money is.

None of the buyers appear to be willing to offer an amount that meets that requirement, but we dont know why Q are not telling the potential bidders not to place a bid unless it meets that minimum requirement.

If the club had an owner, the owner could decide to sell the club for less money, but Q is not the owner they are the appointed administrators and their goal is different from an owner, its to make sure that the creditors get the best possible deal.

Complicating that process is the efl, the efl are crushing Derby.

The efl could remove their rule from being used against Derby, they could in fact make it possible for the club to be sold, but the efl are not in the business of not throwing their weight around.

The efl want to say that they have made an example of Derby County, they are now heavily involved in the process because they want to make sure that the bidders apply the efl's own creditors rule, they want to be certain that the buyer must abide by that ruling.

A potential 15 points deductions will only be imposed on Derby if a new purchaser cannot meet the terms of the EFL insolvency policy of 25p in £ on exit or 35p in £ over three years (to unsecured creditors). 

The EFL demand that the buyer meets that condition.

And there we have it, an impasse or checkmate if we were playing chess, no possibility of a move without one of the sides giving in.

The buyers want to offer less.

The government isn't willing to force HMRC to take less money in terms of the debt that Derby need to repay, they want to make an example to other football clubs and their debts but to the derby county fans, they want to say that they are doing all they can to try and save the club.

The efl want to make an example to other football clubs by demanding that the terrms of their insolvency policy is met.

The buyers want to offer less.

Q accepted the fantasy offer from Kirchner, a fantasy because it looks like he was never going to honour that amount, he just wanted to be the preferred buyer, in my opinion he wasnt the best buyer for the club as he had no football ownership experience.

 

 

 

A deal will be done because there are buyers at the table. And as I’ve said I’ve been told everyone is focussed on a positive outcome/conclusion that Derby continues as a football club.

As others have said the only real requirement here is football creditors get 100%, and possibly HMRC get whatever CK promised. Everything else is irrelevant really, the consequence unfortunately will likely be a 15 point deduction (but we don’t know this it’s just speculation)

Im sure Q and the the EFL have spelled out the requirements but buyers will only pay what they are willing to pay. 

[Justa]

47 minutes ago, Brammie Steve said:

DCFC or Boris.

Which has the greater chance of survival?

Boris ‘Teflon’ Johnson unfortunately ?

[IslandExile]

1 minute ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Everything else is irrelevant really

Not irrelevant to the small businesses, including this forum, that depend on their bills being paid.

But I don't think you meant it that way. I'm guessing you mean in terms of pushing a deal through.

[BramcoteRam84]

3 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Not irrelevant to the small businesses, including this forum, that depend on their bills being paid.

But I don't think you meant it that way. I'm guessing you mean in terms of pushing a deal through.

Absolutely not!!! In the context of the deal completely, unfortunately that’s how it works with all administrations 

[PistoldPete]

33 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

I'm guessing a bit / a lot here and not claiming to be correct, just thinking aloud,  but...

They would have been perfectly entitled to make a bid at any point, it just couldn't go anywhere until CK's period of exclusivity ended.

I don't think back around March/April there was a point where any bidder would engage without being offered exclusivity, so no matter who we went with a number of other bidder would have been locked out. That period should have ended the second CK failed to pay by the contracted date, but as we aren't privy to whatever documents may have been used to verify CK's claims we'll simply never know the reasons why it wasn't.

Nevertheless, I think there's a chance the bids we're apparently seeing now could have been on the table ready and waiting for the second CK's bid fell through, but instead of of making an actual bid these other parties chose to bitch and moan through the media about not being contacted, even though at that stage they couldn't be contacted. This of course also contributes to time wasted.

----------------

When the EFL put out the statement saying they wanted to be involved in all of the future discussions there was, amongst some quarters, a collective cheer that Quantuma now had nowhere to hide. Their 'incompetence' would be shown up, the EFL vindicated in their concerns, things would move on at a rapid rate.

We've already got numerous posts (albeit it just 4 days later) with people questioning why things are still not moving as quickly as they believe they should.

I do wonder if despite perhaps the EFL's own bluster and the outside view that they'd "sort Quantuma out", now they can see exactly what is going on they may just be thinking "Oh poop, yeah, we can see why this was taking so long now".

Perhaps things WILL move more quickly from this point on, I certainly hope so.

Exactly. Blame quantuma if you like for indulging Ck for too long but he was the highest bidder, passed the Efl fit and proper test and showed proof of funds. They couldn’t just give someone else Pb status just because he makes a **** of himself on twitter. 

5 months were wasted in admin from September to February dealing with Efl charges and Boro claims. all the fault of Efl and Gibson. 

so for Efl to blame q for how long it’s taking is just a bit rich I would say. 

 

[Jimbo Ram]

56 minutes ago, Brammie Steve said:

DCFC or Boris.

Which has the greater chance of survival?

You can’t bring politics in to these threads Brammie……believe me. 

[Phoenix]

With regard to the sale of the ground, are the Council still considering it, or has it actually been sold?

[RoyMac5]

 

[Curtains]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61829707

[jono]

1 hour ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Not sure what term is more irritating…..’end of’ or ‘just saying’ ….what do you think ? 

The other one is “as you do” ?

[Hanny]

30 minutes ago, Oldben said:

 

Q know exactly what that amount of money is.

None of the buyers appear to be willing to offer an amount that meets that requirement, but we dont know why Q are not telling the potential bidders not to place a bid unless it meets that minimum requirement.

 

 

 

The bold bit: you never tell someone a minimum acceptable amount. Because then that is the only amount you will be offered. 
 

However, I imagine all potential bidders are well aware of a general ‘lowest they may accept amount’. So, Qi’s ask of ‘final and best’ really is the best tactic. 
 

The timeline will be as soon as they have a ‘best’ offer, the bidding closes. 
 

This approach puts the onus on the bidders to be reasonable or even generous with an offer (which does not play into Ashley’s hands). But the nature of the club on the brink- does mean Q may need to budge on what is acceptable if it comes to it. 

?‍♂️

[minesahartington]

1 hour ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Not sure what term is more irritating…..’end of’ or ‘just saying’ ….what do you think ? 

“Enuff said”