The Administration Thread

[I know nuffin]

15 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

Edited

Not paying to read speculation but cannot think that happened. Ashley does not appear to share things but if it were true he could have bought the stadium if he wanted to but again cannot see that happening and the legal side would have to be super tight to stop sully rents or buy out price

[Ghost of Clough]

44 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

I’m not sure we can blame the EFL for the points deductions... Derby broke FFP rules.

Debatable, especially when every practicing accountant were of the opinion that we didn't break any accounting standards.

The administrators accepted the penalty to speed up the process.

[RipleyRich]

2 minutes ago, I know nuffin said:

Not paying to read speculation but cannot think that happened. Ashley does not appear to share things but if it were true he could have bought the stadium if he wanted to but again cannot see that happening and the legal side would have to be super tight to stop sully rents or buy out price

Totally agree. I don`t believe MA ever wanted the club as it doesn`t appear to fit his profile in terms of cost V return and the risks involved (ie pay back time) Whereas I do feel CK, albeit maybe a vanity exercise, wants to get the Club back on its feet for the right reasons.

[GenBr]

7 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

Why do it if you only get a fraction of what you received before? 

I would imagine its a similar deal to shirt sales, no?

Most football clubs receive only a small percentage from shirt sales and are usually paid some kind of licensing fee from whoever makes the kits. Outside of shirts and kits, which we already dont earn a huge amount from i wouldnt have thought there would be much else in the club shop that sells a significant amount anyway.

[Woodley Ram]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Debatable, especially when every practicing accountant were of the opinion that we didn't break any accounting standards.

The administrators accepted the penalty to speed up the process.

The amortisation issue I agree. It also wasn’t against accounting practice or  EFL rules at the time, it was was against the spirit of the game but if we went down that route everyone would be in trouble. 
 

as soon as the ruling was made we had to abide by a points deduction for FFP, as said I have always thought the EFL are inconsistent with how those are applied.  All not just Derby’s.
 

i still think that Covid was why we went into administration and is no different to why others have large over spends and why the EFL concocted the process to protect clubs that influenced it (due to their operational model).

however, we need to move on, leave this behind and focus on getting promotion from L1

[RoyMac5]

15 minutes ago, RipleyRich said:

Totally agree. I don`t believe MA ever wanted the club as it doesn`t appear to fit his profile in terms of cost V return and the risks involved (ie pay back time) Whereas I do feel CK, albeit maybe a vanity exercise, wants to get the Club back on its feet for the right reasons.

So even though he said he did? ?

Who cares about reasons! For an investment in a football club to 'work' the Club needs to be successful. Don't give a damn for the motives, don't believe they affect the chances of success cf MM!

[RipleyRich]

12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So even though he said he did? ?

Who cares about reasons! For an investment in a football club to 'work' the Club needs to be successful. Don't give a damn for the motives, don't believe they affect the chances of success cf MM!

I believe he showed an interest. He would need to do that to be able to evaluate the full scale of debt and make an informed decision in terms of a bid and outlay versus return. I am not convinced it went much further than that.

As for motives, I think if MA had followed it through and bought the club, his motives would be different to those of CK. However, it would have positively affected the clubs future, maybe more so than CK will, but we will never know so not worth worrying about now.

[FindernRam]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I'll confidently predict we wont have a single league attendance at PP in 22/23 as low as 15k, let alone an average that low. If your frame of reference is Division 3 from 1984-86, you're not comparing apples with apples. Much better ground facilities, greater interest in football as a whole & less hooliganism. Add in the feel good factor from the club being saved, novelty of a new division & the defiance shown by the fanbase, I think 15k is incredibly pessimistic. We'll average over 20k.

Well I hope you are right , but being an optimist hammered by years of experience I have a tempered view of things. my logic is this:

We have no team as such and when we do it will be lowish quality compared to what we are used to.

League 1 football is pretty dire from what I've seen on TV and we will be at that level. Five games in; watching kick and hope will put off a lot of people. 

Live footy is in a gentle decline thanks to TV. Even with Sunderland average in L1 is only 15k and without them the slight decline in live attendance overall will be more apparent. I don't think our core base of fanatics is that big.

ST holders are not always hardcore supporters, they like the familiarity of the same seat and neighbours. Lose one or two and others will follow. 

Consider: Man City v Spurs on the box or drag down to PP on a rainy winters day to see Forest Green Rovers (no disrespect). Quality v Hoofball!

The facilities are irrelevant as we have them now. My only requirement is I can see and mainly dry.

There may be a fair take up of ST depending on the price . But If it costs (say) £15 to get in, with no sell outs you will always be able to get a seat in your preferred stand. Why pay up front? Pick and choose. I think that is what a lot of folks will do. Seems to be that way at Burton. 

Hence my AVERAGE of 15k over the season.

[Crewton]

An average of 15,000 over the season would mean some gates (against the smaller clubs on a winter evening, say) being as low as 12,000, because we'll certainly clear 20,000 for the games against Wednesday, Ipswich, Portsmouth, Plymouth, Port Vale, Peterborough, Barnsley and even Lincoln 

I'll be surprised if we don't sell at least 16,000 ST again and average at least 20,000.

[RoyMac5]

11 minutes ago, RipleyRich said:

I believe he showed an interest. He would need to do that to be able to evaluate the full scale of debt and make an informed decision in terms of a bid and outlay versus return. I am not convinced it went much further than that.

As for motives, I think if MA had followed it through and bought the club, his motives would be different to those of CK. However, it would have positively affected the clubs future, maybe more so than CK will, but we will never know so not worth worrying about now.

For someone not bothered you sure go on about it enough. ?

[Crewton]

It seems odd that Ashley would want to team up with Kirchner - hasn't he heard that Kirchner is "potless tyre-kicker"? 

[RipleyRich]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

For someone not bothered you sure go on about it enough. ?

Not bothered about what?

The Clubs Future, Who`s buying it? or the fact you seem completely obsessed with trying to belittle every comment I make?

[Ghost of Clough]

47 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

The amortisation issue I agree. It also wasn’t against accounting practice or  EFL rules at the time, it was was against the spirit of the game but if we went down that route everyone would be in trouble. 
 

as soon as the ruling was made we had to abide by a points deduction for FFP, as said I have always thought the EFL are inconsistent with how those are applied.  All not just Derby’s.
 

i still think that Covid was why we went into administration and is no different to why others have large over spends and why the EFL concocted the process to protect clubs that influenced it (due to their operational model).

however, we need to move on, leave this behind and focus on getting promotion from L1

We weren't penalised for being "against the spirit of the game" though. We were penalised for allegedly 'using a non-compliant amortisation policy which otherwise would have resulted in us exceeding P&S limits'

[Ghost of Clough]

24 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Well I hope you are right , but being an optimist hammered by years of experience I have a tempered view of things. my logic is this:

We have no team as such and when we do it will be lowish quality compared to what we are used to.

League 1 football is pretty dire from what I've seen on TV and we will be at that level. Five games in; watching kick and hope will put off a lot of people. 

Live footy is in a gentle decline thanks to TV. Even with Sunderland average in L1 is only 15k and without them the slight decline in live attendance overall will be more apparent. I don't think our core base of fanatics is that big.

ST holders are not always hardcore supporters, they like the familiarity of the same seat and neighbours. Lose one or two and others will follow. 

Consider: Man City v Spurs on the box or drag down to PP on a rainy winters day to see Forest Green Rovers (no disrespect). Quality v Hoofball!

The facilities are irrelevant as we have them now. My only requirement is I can see and mainly dry.

There may be a fair take up of ST depending on the price . But If it costs (say) £15 to get in, with no sell outs you will always be able to get a seat in your preferred stand. Why pay up front? Pick and choose. I think that is what a lot of folks will do. Seems to be that way at Burton. 

Hence my AVERAGE of 15k over the season.

Nonsense.

Our lowest last season was 16,123. Ignore 3 of the first 5 games last season, and our next lowest was just over 20k. 

Ignoring those first 5 games, our average was over 24k.

We started last season with no season tickets on sale, barely 11 players to field the day before the season opener, pessimism looming over the club due to only just avoiding relegation the season before (and the squad being weaker!), and several other factors.

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, RipleyRich said:

Not bothered about what?

The Clubs Future, Who`s buying it? or the fact you seem completely obsessed with trying to belittle every comment I make?

Lol. Belittle your every comment? If you say so.

 

[I know nuffin]

16 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Nonsense.

Our lowest last season was 16,123. Ignore 3 of the first 5 games last season, and our next lowest was just over 20k. 

Ignoring those first 5 games, our average was over 24k.

We started last season with no season tickets on sale, barely 11 players to field the day before the season opener, pessimism looming over the club due to only just avoiding relegation the season before (and the squad being weaker!), and several other factors.

Not forgetting covid and many people not going out especially in crowds incase they caught it. Can remember how uncomfortable we felt v Salford when all the signs said keep your distance but everyone was huddled together as they filled section at a time and stewards would not let us move into an empty section

[Oldben]

14 hours ago, B4ev6is said:

About kircher when someone said he does not care about football that is not true at all he said his dad played football in the states and his sister does and so does most of the family and he wants make us successful again and that shows he cares and I just wish people stop being negative quite clearly he wants derby and rooney can see ambersation for this great club and rooney got drive and grit to make us great again.

Mike Ashley offered to partner with ck, to buy the club and ck declined.

If ck were purely money motivated, he could have accepted that offer and allowed ma to be the financial backer.

However, he's obviously got plans for dcfc, that involve him being the complete owner of the club.

On the argument of football knowledge, if its true that he's using Gary cook as his strategic advisor on football club matters, I don't see an issue.

Cook has a more than decent knowledge of football.

Even if cook's not involved, he's still got rooney. Rooney in my opinion is a very clever man when it comes to football.

So I'm sure things will be fine, in terms of football club management and strategy.

That doesn't negate my concerns about which players are acquired to rebuild the team or trying to do everything on a low budget.

Rooneys on record as saying that we need to sign a lot of players this summer.

 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

1 hour ago, FindernRam said:

Well I hope you are right , but being an optimist hammered by years of experience I have a tempered view of things. my logic is this:

We have no team as such and when we do it will be lowish quality compared to what we are used to.

League 1 football is pretty dire from what I've seen on TV and we will be at that level. Five games in; watching kick and hope will put off a lot of people. 

Live footy is in a gentle decline thanks to TV. Even with Sunderland average in L1 is only 15k and without them the slight decline in live attendance overall will be more apparent. I don't think our core base of fanatics is that big.

ST holders are not always hardcore supporters, they like the familiarity of the same seat and neighbours. Lose one or two and others will follow. 

Consider: Man City v Spurs on the box or drag down to PP on a rainy winters day to see Forest Green Rovers (no disrespect). Quality v Hoofball!

The facilities are irrelevant as we have them now. My only requirement is I can see and mainly dry.

There may be a fair take up of ST depending on the price . But If it costs (say) £15 to get in, with no sell outs you will always be able to get a seat in your preferred stand. Why pay up front? Pick and choose. I think that is what a lot of folks will do. Seems to be that way at Burton. 

Hence my AVERAGE of 15k over the season.

Will the team be much weaker than the season just been? Not sure about that- if most of the squad stays. If your prediction of 15k is correct, our support would be weaker than Bolton and Charlton and only just better than Plymouth- probably less actually as DCFC would attract more away supporters. So 15k average would probably mean home fans of 13-14k a lot of matches. Way lower than what will be the case. The home support will be similar to Sheffield Wednesday and what they get now. Think you have underestimated the strength of support in the city. Forest were getting 20k average in league 1 and Derby have had better average attendances than Forest over the last 2 decades so there is a benchmark.

[I know nuffin]

9 hours ago, atherstoneram said:

As Fanatic now run and staff the club shop,the club only receive a small percentage of the merchandise sold.

I know that with programmes the publisher pays an amount up front for the privilege of seling programmes. The club may get a percentage of the sales as well but the club has s guaranteed income and the publisher takes the risk that they sell enough. Shop could well be the same 

[LeedsCityRam]

41 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Well I hope you are right , but being an optimist hammered by years of experience I have a tempered view of things. my logic is this:

We have no team as such and when we do it will be lowish quality compared to what we are used to.

League 1 football is pretty dire from what I've seen on TV and we will be at that level. Five games in; watching kick and hope will put off a lot of people. 

Live footy is in a gentle decline thanks to TV. Even with Sunderland average in L1 is only 15k and without them the slight decline in live attendance overall will be more apparent. I don't think our core base of fanatics is that big.

ST holders are not always hardcore supporters, they like the familiarity of the same seat and neighbours. Lose one or two and others will follow. 

Consider: Man City v Spurs on the box or drag down to PP on a rainy winters day to see Forest Green Rovers (no disrespect). Quality v Hoofball!

The facilities are irrelevant as we have them now. My only requirement is I can see and mainly dry.

There may be a fair take up of ST depending on the price . But If it costs (say) £15 to get in, with no sell outs you will always be able to get a seat in your preferred stand. Why pay up front? Pick and choose. I think that is what a lot of folks will do. Seems to be that way at Burton. 

Hence my AVERAGE of 15k over the season.

Think we'll have to agree to disagree but interesting take on things.

I would argue it is televised football that is in decline, not live football. The appeal of Man City v Spurs (to take your example) is not the same as it would've been 20/30 years ago...no novelty & people tend to half watch. Of course there is no competition for Saturday 3pm kick offs which is when we will largely be playing.

Going to the match meanwhile is a social thing & a being 'part of the experience' thing. Questions of quality not that relevant therefore but think you might be surprised by the quality in League One compared to the Championship, it isn't that different. We'll be there to support Derby though & how we play is most important. Given the trauma of the last 2 years, I dont think we massively care who we play...that may change in time but not for next season.

Re season tickets, people will remember the fantastic atmospheres at PP this season & will want a part of that again. That had little to do with the opposition or even the quality of football...it was all about us. Suspect we will sell well although some will pick & choose matches as ever. Burton not really comparable being a club tenth of the size of Derby.

As to Crewton's point, a 15k average suggests some gates of 12/13k. I'd be astonished if we went that low. Games against Sheff Weds/Ipswich likely to attract 25k plus & away sides will bring plenty as they will see PP as a big day out. Expect full away allocations from likes of Port Vale, Lincoln & Bristol Rovers as well as the bigger sides.