The Administration Thread

[Rammy03]

13 minutes ago, Topram said:

excuses already? ??

Not happening tomorrow then

[Nuwtfly]

4 minutes ago, Kernow said:

I have no idea how much he has. You could Google it, but again it wouldn't necessarily tell us an accurate figure. In 2018 he was listed as being worth £252mil, how accurate that is I have no idea, but my hypothesis for the deal, and his motivation, is this...

Whoever buys Derby County will be buying a club that has to operate under restrictions for the next couple of years at least. That includes how much we can spend on wages and transfer fees. In League One, in theory, it should mean that with our revenue we will be able to be self-sufficient. We can start to look to build again without having the possibility of forking out extortionate amounts. We can give longer contracts than 12 months to players, so if we can recruit another Luke Plange or Malcolm Ebiowei, like we have managed to do whilst already under restrictions, then they aren't going to be poached off of us without our say so. If we choose to sell them, we get a fee to benefit us.

Meanwhile, while we're repairing ourselves and improving, we become much more of an attractive prospect to a more ambitious buyer. We won't have the debts, we won't have the admin fees, we won't have a loan against Pride Park that essentially blocks any sale for however long.

If Clowes doesn't have the funds to keep us beyond our restricted period, I doubt he'd have anywhere near as much trouble selling us. And comparatively, he would still own a stadium that he's bought for a pretty decent price, and could use his business expertise to make a profit on. He also would have saved the Club he's loved his whole life without denting his *reported* net worth much at all.

I think if Clowes wanted the Club for himself indefinitely, he would have entered the game a lot sooner. But he's in because Derby County dying is simply not an option, and if spending a portion of his wealth on us for a couple of years whilst we heal is the price it costs, then I think he's only doing what 95% of us would also do if we had his level of wealth.

A very fair summation. For what it's worth, I think you're almost certainly right and I suspect that we are probably going to be looking at a repeat of the Nigel Clough years (if we're lucky) as I said earlier to @Caerphilly Ram.

I would welcome this, too. Operating in the way we have been in the last few years is completely unsustainable and I actually think the majority of the football league is waking up to this now. You're seeing previous big spenders being much smarter with their recruitment now. Bristol City are a good example of this. Gone are the days of them spending millions on Wells, Palmer, Kalas. The business they have done so far has been excellent.

What I would say is this: people gave Mel Morris an easy ride for a very long time and, at times, shut their eyes and closed their ears to things he did because he was a "fan". In fact, at times I can remember criticism of Morris from the fanbase being largely shut down/mocked, and that includes on this forum. Yes a line has to be drawn when libel is involved, but you can't tell me criticism of Mel was welcomed or even treated as fair discussion at times.

People were celebrating his battles with other clubs/the EFL (remember that image with him as the puppet master?). I can even remember people arguing on Twitter in defence of the very policies (amortisation for example) that got us into this mess. Maybe people weren't to know better, but people who criticised the way Mel was running the club were far from popular.

Is it not fair then to approach any potential new ownership structure, be it someone from America, Saudi Arabia or Derbyshire, with a level of concern/scepticism after everything that has gone on? I remember thinking Mel Morris was going to be the guy to take us to the Premier League and beyond when he took over. It seemed perfect. But we know how that one ended.

[Gringo]

29 minutes ago, The Key Club King said:

 

Most of us wanted Ashley as he has deep pockets and we can complain if he does not "invest". Spending lots of money remains the most effective way to get promoted and always has been. Despite seemingly well-run clubs like Brentford and Brighton doing well

Brighton have the 4th biggest debt in all of English football standing at £279 million with only Spurs Newcastle and Chelsea with largest debts. Brentford have debts of £74 million so neither of these clubs could be considered to self sustainable.

My only hope is that we can sell out a bigger car park than Wycombe

 

[Curtains]

25 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

How do you know if wont help us.

Because retrospective action won’t happen mate 

[Gisby]

3 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

I fully agree. David Clowes has said in the media that he hopes to attract further investors. I fully believe that discussions around that were going on before the announcement that he had completed the stadium purchase was made. I posted on here on Sunday what I had been told about potential other investors and the news of the share distribution changes for stadium ownership seems to fit in with that. David Clowes made his move last week to rescue the club from administration urgently. I am confident that he wouldn't have moved so quickly without some assurance that further investment would be forthcoming from people he can trust. This is not about a man on an ego trip or a reckless gamble but a man trying to do his sensible best for our football club. Other investors to spread his risk will remove the fears being aired on here still. I am confident that he will succeed.

I concur. When something feels right it more often than not is right. When it doesn’t then it isn’t. The share distribution aligns exactly with the idea of further outside investment whereas KC’s funds being delayed due to bank holidays then AML checks was nothing but BS. I’m disappointed in myself for being taken in by it all and giving him the benefit of doubt. I should have known better. We all live in hope but the reality is in our subconscious we know things aren’t right. This time around it feels different. I have a good feeling about Mr Clowes intentions. My problem is I believed in MM too and look where that got us!!! So not sure if I’m the best judge of character ?‍♂️?‍♂️ Bottom line for me is that owners will come & go, players will come & go but as long as there is a Club and the will of the fans that follow it …. there will always be a DCFC. 

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

Click-bait nonsense in the main. No doubt there's plenty of clubs who would like us to get another points deduction because it's in their interest, but that doesn't mean there are grounds to do so. You'll notice that there's no suggestion as to what rule has been breached by the club (though we can't of course rule out the football authorities making one up just for us) because paying the wages on time is what they said we had to do. 

The EFL are really not going to impose a deduction for peccadillos which occur on Q’s watch. It is a hornets’ nest - “club fined for conduct whilst court appointed, exam qualified insolvency practitioners are at the wheel”. Sorry Mr Ploppy it’s not going to happen 

[Curtains]

10 minutes ago, Zag zig said:

With the EFL rules in the past no.

However, it’s clear listening the full debate, as I’ve just done thanks to @RoyMac5 link, that all M.P’s put politics aside and have been bending the ear of the sports minister. In turn, he’s been forced to apply pressure on the EFL and administrators to come to a resolution.

Without that effort in part, we could’ve been another Bury. Only the size of our support, public opinion has focused all colours of the political spectrum into action. It’s a rare moment that you see politicians act in unison, but in truth they had little choice.

Too many have applied pressure, with Crouch herself adding to that pressure, for the sports minister to turn a blind eye to either us or future changes to the governance in the game. So in some ways it will help us.

I’m talking about it didn’t help us for 2 years over .

I don’t even think MPs pressure has helped either .

The EFL ,Boro and to some extent Wycombe have stuffed Mel and Derby County.

David Clowes a lifelong fan has hopefully saved us at the last hour .

 

[Elwood P Dowd]

9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

"The agency representing Wayne Rooney has defended its decision to secretly pay staff and player wages at Derby County as part of a bridging loan for American businessman Chris Kirchner."

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-wayne-rooney-agency-defends-173459682.html

"The Triple S Group is aware of The FA’s routine investigation – indeed, it was the Triple S Group that voluntarily disclosed the information to The FA which has resulted in further inquiry," a spokesperson said.

“We were surprised that details of this investigation have appeared in the press while the investigative process is ongoing. Regardless, the Triple S Group is confident in the legal advice it sought originally and will continue to cooperate fully with The FA to resolve this matter swiftly. No further comment will be made at this time.”

Insiders clarified it was Triple S rather than Paul Stretford, an influential agent who is a minority shareholder in the agency, which had made the payment to administrators when Kirchner's deal ran into trouble."

“We were surprised that details of this investigation have appeared in the press while the investigative process is ongoing.

We are not surprised .

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Gisby said:

I concur. When something feels right it more often than not is right. When it doesn’t then it isn’t. The share distribution aligns exactly with the idea of further outside investment whereas KC’s funds being delayed due to bank holidays then AML checks was nothing but BS. I’m disappointed in myself for being taken in by it all and giving him the benefit of doubt. I should have known better. We all live in hope but the reality is in our subconscious we know things aren’t right. This time around it feels different. I have a good feeling about Mr Clowes intentions. My problem is I believed in MM too and look where that got us!!! So not sure if I’m the best judge of character ?‍♂️?‍♂️ Bottom line for me is that owners will come & go, players will come & go but as long as there is a Club and the will of the fans that follow it …. there will always be a DCFC. 

Fear not Gisby. We all learn from our experiences in life. The next time Mel Morris or Chris Kirchner like figures appear on the horizon you will spot them straight way. David Clowes is not of that ilk.

[Bris Vegas]

14 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said:

Brighton have the 4th biggest debt in all of English football standing at £279 million with only Spurs Newcastle and Chelsea with largest debts. Brentford have debts of £74 million so neither of these clubs could be considered to self sustainable.

My only hope is that we can sell out a bigger car park than Wycombe

 

Brighton and Brentford may be in debt on paper, but their assets mean they aren’t actually in debt at all. Both clubs probably still owe on building their stadiums, while in terms of player assets they could each fetch over £100m just on five or six players alone.

Brighton have already sold Bissouma for £25m and Curculla is linked with City for £40m+

Both have the infrastructure and project in place to stay in the PL for some time to come.

Their situation is no different to say an average citizen having loans of £20,000 to pay the bank but sitting on a property worth over £300,000 while having a steady stream of income. 

[Zag zig]

5 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I’m talking about it didn’t help us for 2 years over .

I don’t even think MPs pressure has helped either .

The EFL ,Boro and to some extent Wycombe have stuffed Mel and Derby County.

David Clowes a lifelong fan has hopefully saved us at the last hour .

 

Pretty much what they all said.

I’m no fan of any of them but in my opinion, had we been a smaller club, without their pressing due to many fan voices in the political ears, the EFL and administration process would have seen us die like Bury.

[RadioactiveWaste]

You'd hope that if trippy S loaned CK the money to pay May's wages they did take advice and you'd also hope they're not expecting it back any time soon.

If they loaned the money directly to DCFC, than that doesn't have to be a problem so long as the loan agreement is proper and they did say they got legal advice on it.

The question is who is on the hook for it? DCFC or CK?

[I know nuffin]

47 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

What been said in the commons.

Big question was what do the EFL do. Mentions of Boro and Wycombe and fan lead review. Some critics of EFL on fit and proper person checks. Other than that mainly waffle due to dcfc being bought hopefully tomorrow

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Clowes Developments had net assets of £266.7m as of 31 March 2021.

The financials are easily accessible on the company's website:

https://clowes.co.uk/financials/

And I think that David Clowes' personal wealth is probably similar to to the value of CD Ltd. on top. But he is still wise enough to want to spread his risk on DCFC with others, unlike Mel Morris.

[I know nuffin]

9 minutes ago, Zag zig said:

Pretty much what they all said.

I’m no fan of any of them but in my opinion, had we been a smaller club, without their pressing due to many fan voices in the political ears, the EFL and administration process would have seen us die like Bury.

True

[Curtains]

12 minutes ago, Zag zig said:

Pretty much what they all said.

I’m no fan of any of them but in my opinion, had we been a smaller club, without their pressing due to many fan voices in the political ears, the EFL and administration process would have seen us die like Bury.

Not to forget what Covid 19 did to Derby County and that the EFL wouldn’t even countenance any exemptions for that .

Totally ridiculous .

PS We were cleared of the EFSs stupid charges against us by the first panel. 

[derby8]

4 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

And I think that David Clowes' personal wealth is probably similar to to the value of CD Ltd. on top. But he is still wise enough to want to spread his risk on DCFC with others, unlike Mel Morris.

Could work well in the future with a Chairman and a few other shareholders, represented on the board with maybe others, and perhaps supporter reps in due course, esp if a group of supporters bought a tranche of shares.

[I know nuffin]

28 minutes ago, Gisby said:

I concur. When something feels right it more often than not is right. When it doesn’t then it isn’t. The share distribution aligns exactly with the idea of further outside investment whereas KC’s funds being delayed due to bank holidays then AML checks was nothing but BS. I’m disappointed in myself for being taken in by it all and giving him the benefit of doubt. I should have known better. We all live in hope but the reality is in our subconscious we know things aren’t right. This time around it feels different. I have a good feeling about Mr Clowes intentions. My problem is I believed in MM too and look where that got us!!! So not sure if I’m the best judge of character ?‍♂️?‍♂️ Bottom line for me is that owners will come & go, players will come & go but as long as there is a Club and the will of the fans that follow it …. there will always be a DCFC. 

Daft thing is when he bought the club MM made a comment, think to Colin Gibson, along the lines of not thinking he owned the club but he was custodian of it. Look where that got udy

[Rample]

I would hope that with Morris out of the picture completely, and Clowes trying hard to do the right thing the FA might drop its vendetta against us and just give us a slap on the wrist over the wages issue.  One thing for certain it wasn't any of the prospective owners fault.

The appropriate action (if any rules were breached) would be to go after Quantuma who were responsible for day to day management and financial control, Kirchner who was claiming ownership and supposedly funding us, and Stretford, although the other 2 parties should know if they were able to accept his money or not.

Would be pretty hillarious if those who have acted ridiculously over the past 9 months got their just desserts.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, I know nuffin said:

Daft thing is when he bought the club MM made a comment, think to Colin Gibson, along the lines of not thinking he owned the club but he was custodian of it. Look where that got udy

And if you believed him then, you'll never believe him again ? Don't worry about him anymore. he's history.