The Administration Thread

[Bris Vegas]

1 hour ago, Phuket Ram said:

Not a chance. Otherwise he's no doubt be under investigation in the US by now.

He never had the money. Never sent any money. Never paid any wages. AML is just a plausible excuse introduced by Nixon.

He obviously likes to hang out with famous and wealthy people, mainly sportsmen. At least he's probably got Rooney's mobile number out of it - although I doubt they'll be hanging out together. 

I think it’s more plausible he just pulled out because it daunted on him how much of a struggle and strain it will be to run a football club profitably.

I don’t buy that he has no money and this was a publicity stunt. He obviously sank money into being in contention with legal fees and what not. And pulling out has undoubtedly and predictably harmed his reputation.

He hasn’t gained anything from being linked with us other than a spotlight now being shined on his other businesses which is probably the last thing he will have wanted.

 

[Oldben]

2 hours ago, Phuket Ram said:

Not a chance. Otherwise he's no doubt be under investigation in the US by now.

He never had the money. Never sent any money. Never paid any wages. AML is just a plausible excuse introduced by Nixon.

He obviously likes to hang out with famous and wealthy people, mainly sportsmen. At least he's probably got Rooney's mobile number out of it - although I doubt they'll be hanging out together. 

We know that ck is likely to lose 1.5 million, that he put into derby, to keep the club going.

That shows two things, 1) a desire to invest in the Club; 2) that Q has run out of money.

Which in turn, shows why the Efl have got more heavily involved with the club.

The efl know that the players wages are likely to be unpaid, unless a buyer is found.

I hope that either the efl or Q will share the figure thar ck was planning to invest, given that the amount accomplished zero -15 point deduction from the efl.

That the creditors are likely to be willing to accept that payment or derby would not continue to exist as a club and Q couldn't have accepted the figure on behalf of the creditors and the efl would not have agreed to allow the figure.

The EFL's insolvency rules state unsecured creditors must be paid immediately at 25p in the pound, or over a three-year period at 35p in the pound - otherwise the club in question will be liable for a further 15-point deduction.

Negotiations are ongoing with HMRC over an outstanding tax bill that is in excess of £30m.

From this, I assume that any bid from ma, Morgan or Appleby must also meet that minimum.

A uk businessman had offered to but the stadium, if that helped get the ck bid completed. I wonder if that still applies, if so, it helps buyers to make an offer for the club.

 

[Phuket Ram]

22 minutes ago, Oldben said:

We know that ck is likely to lose 1.5 million, that he put into derby, to keep the club going.

That shows two things, 1) a desire to invest in the Club; 2) that Q has run out of money.

Which in turn, shows why the Efl have got more heavily involved with the club.

The efl know that the players wages are likely to be unpaid, unless a buyer is found.

I hope that either the efl or Q will share the figure thar ck was planning to invest, given that the amount accomplished zero -15 point deduction from the efl.

That the creditors are likely to be willing to accept that payment or derby would not continue to exist as a club and Q couldn't have accepted the figure on behalf of the creditors and the efl would not have agreed to allow the figure.

The EFL's insolvency rules state unsecured creditors must be paid immediately at 25p in the pound, or over a three-year period at 35p in the pound - otherwise the club in question will be liable for a further 15-point deduction.

Negotiations are ongoing with HMRC over an outstanding tax bill that is in excess of £30m.

From this, I assume that any bid from ma, Morgan or Appleby must also meet that minimum.

A uk businessman had offered to but the stadium, if that helped get the ck bid completed. I wonder if that still applies, if so, it helps buyers to make an offer for the club.

 

He didn’t put any ££ into Derby mate. Not a shekel. 

[Oldben]

4 minutes ago, Phuket Ram said:

He didn’t put any ££ into Derby mate. Not a shekel. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-takeover-chris-kirchner-7196958.amp

"However, should either Ashley or Appleby end up being the new Rams owners, Kirchner faces losing the £1.6m spent on May's wages."

 

[jono]

7 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Pretty much what I'd expect for gate receipts and TV money, unless we have a cup run or playoffs. But only £5m for other income, down from over £12m in 17/18? I expect an extra £3m on top of your estimate.

Sunderland average about £10 per match ticket vs our £15. £4m of income which isn't match receipts or TV. £1.1m of that is sponsorship, a level we havent been at since the Phil Brown days. This is an area Sunderland have always been very poor at. Two important fa tors to remember: 1) some sponsorship deals will run over from our time in the Championship, 2) Rooney

Why the fudge are you suggesting we'll have 40 players on £4k a week? We probably won't even have 11 players on that this season. 40 players on professional contracts seems extremely unrealistic as things stand.

Fair enough on the player numbers. I get genuinely puzzled when I see squad lists that seem hugely long myself. My post was really about the perennial problem of club income versus the farcical player salaries we see in football. In the elite and down here among normal mortals. Accepting that some of the assumed wages probably aren’t what some think they are they are still at bonkers level and need a reset if the game as a whole is to be sustainable. It’s like the owner of a local mini market paying himself like he owns Tesco 

[Phuket Ram]

4 minutes ago, Oldben said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-takeover-chris-kirchner-7196958.amp

"However, should either Ashley or Appleby end up being the new Rams owners, Kirchner faces losing the £1.6m spent on May's wages."

 

I know what was reported mate, but the source was Nixon. Nixon also later reported that is wasn’t kirchner, but nobody printed that because it wasn’t sensational enough. It wasn’t kirchner. 

[SilentRam]

46 minutes ago, Phuket Ram said:

I know what was reported mate, but the source was Nixon. Nixon also later reported that is wasn’t kirchner, but nobody printed that because it wasn’t sensational enough. It wasn’t kirchner. t

Someone has taken Nixon for a ride re Kirchner from start to finish (Stretford obviously). Nixon is still going on about 'the real story will come out soon.' The real story is pretty simple, he doesn't have the money and his attempts at trying to find the money failed. Everything about the way he talks/carries himself screams of someone who desperately wants to be seen as wealthy when in fact, he is really not.

 

[DerbyRevolution]

If Appleby takes over, doesn’t buy the stadium outright and doesn’t pay enough to not get the -15….where will the anti Ashley brigade position themselves towards him? I suspect plenty of backtracking will be done 

[Oldben]

The new buyer will have to satisfy the EFL.

The EFL will not want to look bad by seeing the club to someone who gets the club a -15 point deduction and that could easily lead the club to league 2 and bankruptcy.

 

[oldtimeram]

6 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

You'll get it in the end, he's been sent to the yard to get the long weight.

I'll get the glass hammer

[DRS94]

6 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

You'll get it in the end, he's been sent to the yard to get the long weight.

Got sent for sky hooks once when I was an apprentice, was unfortunately served by a lad of similar age and we spent the best part of 30 mins looking round b&q before his boss put us out of our misery?

[Gaspode]

3 minutes ago, Oldben said:

The new buyer will have to satisfy the EFL.

The EFL will not want to look bad by seeing the club to someone who gets the club a -15 point deduction and that could easily lead the club to league 2 and bankruptcy.

 

The EFL couldn’t give a toss whether we start on minus 15 or not….. and I’m sure some elements in that incompetent and vindictive organisation would positively welcome us being punished further.

[DublinRam]

5 minutes ago, Oldben said:

The new buyer will have to satisfy the EFL.

The EFL will not want to look bad by seeing the club to someone who gets the club a -15 point deduction and that could easily lead the club to league 2 and bankruptcy.

 

They won’t care about us getting more points deducted , as long as their precious fixture list isn’t impacted 

[CBRammette]

14 minutes ago, DerbyRevolution said:

If Appleby takes over, doesn’t buy the stadium outright and doesn’t pay enough to not get the -15….where will the anti Ashley brigade position themselves towards him? I suspect plenty of backtracking will be done 

I suspect most fans, although obviously not all, are mature and just want the club saved but some would prefer not MA for various reasons. Why do some people have to make everything divisive?

[Ramos]

21 minutes ago, DerbyRevolution said:

If Appleby takes over, doesn’t buy the stadium outright and doesn’t pay enough to not get the -15….where will the anti Ashley brigade position themselves towards him? I suspect plenty of backtracking will be done 

We are at the point where we just need to be saved. Whether that means it’s -400 points, only being allowed to play children or starting every game 5-0 down, we don’t have the luxury to pick and choose what we want. Whomever saves the club, we should be grateful to them IMO for stepping in and pulling us out of the biggest mess that I think any football club has ever been in. Certainly at this level.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Ramos

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

I think it’s more plausible he just pulled out because it daunted on him how much of a struggle and strain it will be to run a football club profitably.

I don’t buy that he has no money and this was a publicity stunt. He obviously sank money into being in contention with legal fees and what not. And pulling out has undoubtedly and predictably harmed his reputation.

He hasn’t gained anything from being linked with us other than a spotlight now being shined on his other businesses which is probably the last thing he will have wanted.

 

May well be right. And abuse from fans may have been a factor 

Look at the list of investors in skync though. As soon as the AML alarm bell rang, I think they would have said : “we can smell burning cash - clean your clubs and get on the next plane home.  

Well something like that
 

 

[PistoldPete]

8 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Pretty much what I'd expect for gate receipts and TV money, unless we have a cup run or playoffs. But only £5m for other income, down from over £12m in 17/18? I expect an extra £3m on top of your estimate.

Sunderland average about £10 per match ticket vs our £15. £4m of income which isn't match receipts or TV. £1.1m of that is sponsorship, a level we havent been at since the Phil Brown days. This is an area Sunderland have always been very poor at. Two important fa tors to remember: 1) some sponsorship deals will run over from our time in the Championship, 2) Rooney

Why the fudge are you suggesting we'll have 40 players on £4k a week? We probably won't even have 11 players on that this season. 40 players on professional contracts seems extremely unrealistic as things stand.

Thanks GOC . Don’t disagree what you say we will have more revenue from ticketing and other things than Sunderland did in League one. But like I say they showed £5 m from tv and media and I would likewise expect us to at least match that too. 
 

I don’t think we will have 40 players on professional contracts but 16 or so (either renewing the out of contracts or a load of free agents like last summer) … unlike last summer we should still be able to sign free agents after the summer especially once we are out of admin  plus a few kids on very low wages. The seven currently contracted senior players will probably skew the average salary massively. Even so, our wage bill should be easily covered by revenue, unlike Sunderland. 

[Ramos]

1 minute ago, kevinhectoring said:

May well be right. And abuse from fans may have been a factor 

Look at the list of investors in skync though. As soon as the AML alarm bell rang, I think they would have said : “we can smell burning cash - clean your clubs and get on the next plane home.  

Well something like that
 

 

Think you may both be right - my first reaction was he was a bit of a fraud but think that was more emotional than thought out, frustration with the situation.
 

Maybe this was his inexperience and naivety showing through his ambitious nature of being succesful quite young. I’m suprised though it took to that far in the process for his realisation or someone to say something to him to make him change his mind. 

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

This thing seems to have gone on for an eternity, Genuine question, how long have we got before we go pop? End of June when wages need to be paid?

to preempt the predictable, i know, 48hrs, imminent...

[Ram-Alf]

8 hours ago, CBX1985 said:

At the highest levels, fantasists and con-men operate in such a way that people who should know better know no better (I, shamefully, have been the one on the other end).  They sell you what you want to hear.  They make it so incredibly plausible.  The reason the Nigerian prince is shorthand is that it is obvious.  But Kirchner is CEO of a company with a fancy website, that does things with computers and logistics.  He hangs out with all the golfers.  He is credible.  Unlikely and you get the "where do you come from worry", but credible.

All of those organisations want either more money or DCFC to live on.  With no points deduction.  He didn't offer too much: he wasn't about to sign Messi.  But he'd keep Rooney, no points deduction; the creditors would be looked after.  He probably had an account with big numbers on it at First Manhattan, or some such Coutts-like US bank.

I don't blame people for being sucked in.  I think CK probably believed his own BS.

I think CK liked the idea of being in the spotlight.  But didn't really want the club.  Fantasists live the fantasy.  And time can seem elastic to them... until the time it all comes crashing down.    

You only have to look who wants to buy Birmingham City...An MP has told the EFL to look again at this fantasist...Again!