The Administration Thread

[Ghost of Clough]

6 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

As our esteemed in-house expert on these matters, could you offer an opinion as to what level of points penalties would have been applied were these Covid concessions applied to Derby's P & S submissions please Ghost? Apologies if you have already done so.

Thank you!

 

5 minutes ago, rammieib said:

Thanks GOC.

So 20/21 we fail by just under £2m and the new rules whereby we can offset £2.5m, surely that should lead to an immediate appeal? It may only give us 1-2 points but changing the rules mid season is a shocker.

£2.5m applies to the current season so has no impact of the penalties we've suffered. It does however give us (up to) an extra £2.5m budget for current and future periods.

The 2021 period includes averaged 19/20 and 20/21 losses. Im not quite sure if I've understood the statement correctly, but it's one of two scenarios.

1. £5m extra allowance in 20/21, results in £1.96m overspend becoming ££0.54m under the limit.

2. We used a £5m allowance rather than what the actual Covid losses were (£13m min, actual £15/16m estimated). The impact being £2/3m under the limit.

 

The impact on our deductions? Under standard P&S penalties, 2021 deduction should have been 3 points (out of a total 17). Given our reduced penalty, we're talking about 2 points unjustly taken off us.

[Curtains]

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/derby-county-hit-nine-point-104105204.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHO0Hlx5JxQilPqtgNmflrrm95brc2-bg7OAA5TxdbnInfoDVf7v2dZcHaCIc6F6GMFdYb1qAblH6jQ5F2HiXOlrrAHg1APP8gPe8myPbRVZ_fiWba4dnyu_WSBWQdkQ17kwo0rjVPGh1lwJOKPMq23VHASpus6dpUVbvkwZOcjU

[PistoldPete]

3 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I’m now not sure if the 9 points was for ground sale !

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/nov/16/derby-deducted-another-nine-points-for-breaches-of-efl-rules-over-pride-park-sale

 

Bloody hell. no wonder you can read the Guardian for free if they get stuff like that so badly wrong. 

[Steve How Hard?]

3 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I’m now not sure if the 9 points was for ground sale !

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/nov/16/derby-deducted-another-nine-points-for-breaches-of-efl-rules-over-pride-park-sale

 

Rule number 1, don't trust a journalist when searching for facts. ?

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

P&S, Amortisation fined £100,000 for not explaining it good enough, Ground sale passed as not an issue

Just shows you even Guardian headlines wrong 

[Curtains]

https://uk.style.yahoo.com/derby-look-set-suffer-championship-111440157.html

 

“Trevor Birch, the EFL’s chief executive, said: “The EFL’s objective throughout this ongoing process has been to ensure that the principles of the regulations were upheld on behalf of all clubs.”

 

yea right 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Curtains
Added

[Gritstone Ram]

The Sun

Derby deducted 9 points for having a Ram on their shirts.

[Wolfie20]

48 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I think the analogy is that we are in an organization (EFL) where we are not wanted or welcome.

I am afraid we just have to live with it. 
 

I feel sick to the stomach with this and feel we are being victimised

I just hope if we get new owners they can deal with the EFL 

Hopefully an independant body will assume control over the management of the Football League sooner rather than later and this bunch of shysters will be consigned to the dustbin. Appointing Peter Ridsdale to the EFL board to represent the Championship clubs just highlights the total lack of integrity of this hideous organisation.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

 

£2.5m applies to the current season so has no impact of the penalties we've suffered. It does however give us (up to) an extra £2.5m budget for current and future periods.

The 2021 period includes averaged 19/20 and 20/21 losses. Im not quite sure if I've understood the statement correctly, but it's one of two scenarios.

1. £5m extra allowance in 20/21, results in £1.96m overspend becoming ££0.54m under the limit.

2. We used a £5m allowance rather than what the actual Covid losses were (£13m min, actual £15/16m estimated). The impact being £2/3m under the limit.

 

The impact on our deductions? Under standard P&S penalties, 2021 deduction should have been 3 points (out of a total 17). Given our reduced penalty, we're talking about 2 points unjustly taken off us.

They could be rather important so you've answered a question.  I thought earlier that the 2021 deduction was close. 

Can we appeal this, can Reading appeal any of theirs ?

Even if previously it was agreed nothing could be appealed, they must account for changes to policy in this poo show

 

 

[Comrade 86]

13 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

 

£2.5m applies to the current season so has no impact of the penalties we've suffered. It does however give us (up to) an extra £2.5m budget for current and future periods.

The 2021 period includes averaged 19/20 and 20/21 losses. Im not quite sure if I've understood the statement correctly, but it's one of two scenarios.

1. £5m extra allowance in 20/21, results in £1.96m overspend becoming ££0.54m under the limit.

2. We used a £5m allowance rather than what the actual Covid losses were (£13m min, actual £15/16m estimated). The impact being £2/3m under the limit.

The impact on our deductions? Under standard P&S penalties, 2021 deduction should have been 3 points (out of a total 17). Given our reduced penalty, we're talking about 2 points unjustly taken off us.

Ah, misread the statement - thought the concession applied to Covid affected years, ie 2019 to present. Still, two points back would be nice! Many thanks mate ?

[Ram-Alf]

2 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

They could be rather important so you've answered a question.  I thought earlier that the 2021 deduction was close. 

Can we appeal this, can Reading appeal any of theirs ?

Even if previously it was agreed nothing could be appealed, they must account for changes to policy in this poo show

 

 

If DCFC and RFC both signed off on not appealing i'd have thought there's no right of appeal, If it's a case of a nod and a shake of the hands an appeal could be looked at by both clubs legal partners

[Van der MoodHoover]

Don't we have to vote to accept the new rules? 

Let's vote the boogers down! ?

[hintonsboots]

We all know the EFL are an unfit for purpose regulator and need to be completely reformed, which may happen with the formation of an independent regulator if that ever comes to fruition.

I would allege that their treatment of Derby County football club over the last  couple of years has bordered on victimisation, combined with lack of impartiality as our governing body, in relation to collusion with other league members.

The EFL Should now be exposed and it’s board held to account by a BBC Panorama investigation.

Please email your thoughts to :-

panorama.reply@bbc.co.uk

The more requests for an investigation from BBC license fee payers the better.

[Ghost of Clough]

9 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

They could be rather important so you've answered a question.  I thought earlier that the 2021 deduction was close. 

Can we appeal this, can Reading appeal any of theirs ?

Even if previously it was agreed nothing could be appealed, they must account for changes to policy in this poo show

 

 

Reading's penalty wouldn’t be affected. £18m overspend, with a real Covid impact of £8-9m. This would reduce their overpend to £16m, so same points deduction.

[Curtains]

I don’t think we can appeal 

 

 

“16 November 2021·3-min read

Derby are facing the prospect of relegation from the Sky Bet Championship after accepting a 21-point deduction for breaching English Football League accounting rules.

The club’s administrators Quantuma have agreed a further deduction of nine points, plus a further suspended three points, for historical financial breaches.

It takes the total penalty points to minus-21, after the minus-12 for sliding into administration, leaving the Rams on minus three points and marooned at the bottom of the table with relegation to League One looking inevitable.

The decision brings to an end a long-running saga of nearly two years, after Derby were initially charged in January 2020.

There is no right of appeal and the club have also agreed to the dismissal of their appeal against the 12-point deduction issued for entering administration on September 22, meaning that sanction remains.”

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

3 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I don’t think we can appeal 

 

 

“16 November 2021·3-min read

Derby are facing the prospect of relegation from the Sky Bet Championship after accepting a 21-point deduction for breaching English Football League accounting rules.

The club’s administrators Quantuma have agreed a further deduction of nine points, plus a further suspended three points, for historical financial breaches.

It takes the total penalty points to minus-21, after the minus-12 for sliding into administration, leaving the Rams on minus three points and marooned at the bottom of the table with relegation to League One looking inevitable.

The decision brings to an end a long-running saga of nearly two years, after Derby were initially charged in January 2020.

There is no right of appeal and the club have also agreed to the dismissal of their appeal against the 12-point deduction issued for entering administration on September 22, meaning that sanction remains.”

Can't change the parameters of what you accepted and not expect an appeal on 2 crucial points .  They won't expect us to cause a stink as they'll anticipate we value getting the sale done .  That's why it's been timed at this juncture of proceeding's. Unfortunately for them, this time it is to an investors benefit rather than detriment to go at this.  Get an appeal in on grounds that we accepted an unwarranted charge for some of these points, based on process amendment.

[duncanjwitham]

16 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

If DCFC and RFC both signed off on not appealing i'd have thought there's no right of appeal, If it's a case of a nod and a shake of the hands an appeal could be looked at by both clubs legal partners

Who says we have to actually appeal our agreed decision? We can challenge the EFL’s right to change rules mid-season, we can challenge their lack of good faith in not informing us that there was a potential rule change going to happen, we can challenge them not enforcing the rules as written at the time of the offence for other clubs etc etc.

[Ewetube]

8 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I don’t think we can appeal 

 

 

“16 November 2021·3-min read

Derby are facing the prospect of relegation from the Sky Bet Championship after accepting a 21-point deduction for breaching English Football League accounting rules.

The club’s administrators Quantuma have agreed a further deduction of nine points, plus a further suspended three points, for historical financial breaches.

It takes the total penalty points to minus-21, after the minus-12 for sliding into administration, leaving the Rams on minus three points and marooned at the bottom of the table with relegation to League One looking inevitable.

The decision brings to an end a long-running saga of nearly two years, after Derby were initially charged in January 2020.

There is no right of appeal and the club have also agreed to the dismissal of their appeal against the 12-point deduction issued for entering administration on September 22, meaning that sanction remains.”

It would be interesting to know of the discussions between Q and the EFL leading to Q accepting the 21 point penalty.

Were Q lead to believe that accepting this would help facilitate a smooth exit from administration?

 

[Ramslad1992]

2 hours ago, David said:

Just sent this to Rick Parry. I'm still yet to receive a reply to my previous email, just needed to vent my frustration. This isn't acceptable, you can't run football like this.

 

David for Prime Minister! 

[PistoldPete]

47 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Precisely. Dealt themselves a knock-out blow I believe ?

ANyone who doubts that EFL has been trying too hard to penalise Derby needs to understand a few things.

After the Bury debacle EFL was already under an existential threat.  They were heavily criticised amongst many other things for failing to stop the Bury owner.

So they tried to stop Mel Morris, who was,  to be fair, finding a lot of loopholes in the FFP rules. But instead of closing the loopholes then, (as they now have six years too late) they tried to go after Derby for historic "breaches". None of which were in fact breaches , just taking advantage of existing loopholes.

Then their actions became ever  more desperately self justifying and in fact self fulfilling. Because they (and Boro) were after us, Morris couldn't sell the club . So we would have ended up failing FFP anyway as his plan to write off losses was wrecked too. And then we went into admin and couldn't find a buyer until eventually the logjam was broken this month. If it hadnt been, Q would have taken EFL  to court and won I believe.. the Morris/Gibson "accord" saved face for everyone. 

The EFL's desperate attempts to penalise us and to justify themsleves is so extreme and comes about because EFL knows that they are on borrowed time. The game is up for them and they will have maybe 18 months or so before their regulatory powers are taken away. Long overdue. In the meantime, they will blame anyone and everyone.. Morris, Quantuma, Rams fans , Derby's commercial property valuers, Derby's auditors,  anyone and everyone's fault except their own.