The Administration Thread

[Mucker1884]

4 hours ago, Curtains said:

I’ve also deleted the first post as out of order .

Having a bad day sorry 

So fed up with the whole thing .

It’s heartbreaking what’s happening and was trying to make the point it’s getting worse not better. 

I want it to go more in the direction of the Stadium being the problem to any sale 

 

(Haven't yet continued my catch-up from the above post onwards, but wanted to divert myself for a moment... so apologies if this is out of order)...

 

As a very good friend of yours, @Curtains... albeit by sheer coincidence, also a complete stranger... May I suggest you take a breather.  In good old Rams related fashion, maybe 48 hours?

It is what it is... heart-breaking, as you say... and there's virtually nothing any of us can do about it, other than the odd march, and the odd full house on a matchday, and who knows, maybe even the odd doorstep protest in Preston, in the weeks ahead?

But what we can all do, is take a step back when we need to.  We can (and must!) retain our health... mental & physical... and our sanity (The latter being subject to T&C's, obvs!).

Yes, we are powerless.  Yes, it's extremely frustrating.  And yes, it can be traumatic at times.  

But we must not lose sight of the fact that we must also remain strong.  We must look after ourselves... and our loved ones... over and above anything else.  And that includes our long-time favourite football club.

 

Take a break, buddy.  And take care of yourself.  ?

[Sparkle]

8 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Do  we know what issue they wanted resolving in the Court? The footbal creditor issue or the merits of the Boro and Wycombe claims? EFL often try and weasel out of things.

Well both of them seem to be rather important 

[ilkleyram]

20 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Why would they accept an invitation to a court hearing that they will lose? The Gibbon will delay as long as possible to cause maximum disruption. That’s what this is all about, not money…

Why would they think that they will lose?  Both M and WW's owners have been absolutely clear that they think they have a good case.  The EFL, despite their chairman apparently not having the foggiest idea what the cases are, also think that they have a case to argue - though it isn't clear how they have reached that decision.  Both M and WW have apparently had legal advice which is obviously not telling them that they will lose, otherwise they would have quietly dropped the cases.

Gibbon may well hate Mel and want money.  He might even hate us and DCFC generally.  Ditto the yank.  They might both judge that delaying the process helps them win their cases (though I think they both accuse both Mel and Q as being the cause of more delays) but I would be convinced that they both think that they have a case that they can win

[PistoldPete]

3 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Well both of them seem to be rather important 

They do. But not sure if it’s both that they are willing to go to the High Court on.

[Chris_D]

1 hour ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Pete, you have read Morris' statement where he outlines his previous experience at the EFL hearings. He clearly has no faith in that organisation any more and would not expose his personal assets to any process overseen by them and who can really blame him for that? The majority on this forum has been shouting for weeks about the injustice DCFC has suffered at the hands of this inept organisation. Would you personally offer yourself up to the jurisdiction of the EFL from what you have now seen?

Mel is no longer a director of DCFC and as an individual citizen he does not have suffer them anymore. Nor should he have to indemnify DCFC for the parasite claims in the EFL arena. His voluntary offer to fight the parasite claims in the High Court is commendable, notwithstanding his previous conduct as the owner of DCFC. The High Court offers the highest and most equitable form of justice available in the UK. It settles claims between individuals, private sector companies, international companies and individuals, government and public bodies. It is available to all but not member clubs of the EFL because the organisation prefers to keep it within its own walls where kangaroo justice prevails.

DCFC has fully accepted the penalties handed down by the EFL - the 21 points deduction - and in terms of EFL jurisdiction there the matter should end. The claims of the parasite clubs are for them and them alone and the place to settle them is in the High Court if that body rules that it can hear them.

Whatever this week holds for us it going to be very interesting. Either all parties accept the chance of allowing the MFC/WW v Morris proposal or the EFL continues its path to looking increasingly ridiculous. Remember the millions of people across the world who have an interest in English football will be watching with close interest. If the EFL does nothing to remove the current impasse, many of those millions will begin to understand and sympathise withe the hurt and feelings of injustice that all of us as Derby supporters have shared for much too long now. The EFL could be on the brink of hari-kari.

Wednesday night's world premiere of the film 'Rooney' will help focus on what is being done to our football club. Now is the time for us to see if there is any common sense and fairness left behind the walls of that overwhelmingly self-interested body called the EFL.

The EFL do not “oversee” arbitration  

[rammieib]

24 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I can't see the EFL backtrack now after issuing a statement saying we can go to the High Court

 

Except I don't think the EFL will have the power to make the Boro/Wycombe claims go to the high court. Only the two clubs can accept that.

However - at the same time, the EFL haven't even bothered enforcing their own rule of clubs not being allowed to claim from each other.

[StaffsRam]

8 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

Why would they think that they will lose?  Both M and WW's owners have been absolutely clear that they think they have a good case.  The EFL, despite their chairman apparently not having the foggiest idea what the cases are, also think that they have a case to argue - though it isn't clear how they have reached that decision.  Both M and WW have apparently had legal advice which is obviously not telling them that they will lose, otherwise they would have quietly dropped the cases.

They can say what they like when so far it’s not cost them a penny to do so. They may well give it the big ‘un in public, no doubt hoping that Q would cave and offer them something, anything. Probably a different story when it becomes clear that they’re going to have to prove their case in a properly impartial forum. 
 

They will turn down Mel’s offer and they will continue to be as obstructive as possible in order to abuse the timelines and our financial position to try and extract something from us without having to prove anything.

[Gritstone Ram]

2 minutes ago, rammieib said:

 

Except I don't think the EFL will have the power to make the Boro/Wycombe claims go to the high court. Only the two clubs can accept that.

However - at the same time, the EFL haven't even bothered enforcing their own rule of clubs not being allowed to claim from each other.

May be that’s how far their claims would get in the high court. Wave the rule book case dismissed.

[TooFarInToTurnRed]

5 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

Why would they think that they will lose?  Both M and WW's owners have been absolutely clear that they think they have a good case.  The EFL, despite their chairman apparently not having the foggiest idea what the cases are, also think that they have a case to argue - though it isn't clear how they have reached that decision.  Both M and WW have apparently had legal advice which is obviously not telling them that they will lose, otherwise they would have quietly dropped the cases.

Gibbon may well hate Mel and want money.  He might even hate us and DCFC generally.  Ditto the yank.  They might both judge that delaying the process helps them win their cases (though I think they both accuse both Mel and Q as being the cause of more delays) but I would be convinced that they both think that they have a case that they can win

Are you sure Wycombe have actually had any legal advice? I understood that they have not filed any formal proceedings at all but have just sent a ‘Letter before action’ which will have cost virtually nothing.

Potential costs of any sort of proceedings either through EFL or Courts would I suspect would make them reappraise. Contrary to popular belief I think most decent lawyers would tell their client honestly if they did not have a case and even refuse representation if they adamantly felt they would lose. They wouldn’t just pursue it for a payday. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Chris_D said:

The EFL do not “oversee” arbitration

I know. My point is that Mel Morris has lost all faith in the EFL process and will not wish to expose his personal assets to three barristers under an arbitration process when he can have the matter heard by the best judges in the land in the High Court. By taking it to the High Court Mel has clearly much confidence that they will throw. the claims out or at worst reduce any award to an absolute minimum. If Mel wins, Gibson is liable for costs. I think that if the EFL agrees to Mel's proposal there is a very good chance that the parasite clubs will withdraw the claims because Mel will the hot favourite to win in court. Taking the claims away from the EFL completely, opens the door for Q to accelerate administration.

[atherstoneram]

2 hours ago, Indy said:

I remember him saying that he’d put DCFC into administration as he felt the EFL were biased against him and wouldn’t consider the issues fairly whilst he was still the owner. That is consistent with him seeing that they are continuing their vendetta against the club in his absence, so deciding to get back involved again. 

In that case just sign the ground over to the administrators for free or a nominal £1,so they can sell with the ground included for a higher price which includes payment to MSD but it appears MM  doesn't appear to want to do that.

[Chris_D]

1 minute ago, Brailsford Ram said:

I know. My point is that Mel Morris has lost all faith in the EFL process and will not wish to expose his personal assets to three barristers under an arbitration process when he can have the matter heard by the best judges in the land in the High Court. By taking it to the High Court Mel has clearly much confidence that they will throw. the claims out or at worst reduce any award to an absolute minimum. If Mel wins, Gibson is liable for costs. I think that if the EFL agrees to Mel's proposal there is a very good chance that the parasite clubs will withdraw the claims because Mel will the hot favourite to win in court. Taking the claims away from the EFL completely, opens the door for Q to accelerate administration.

Frankly I don’t care what Mel thinks and funnily enough the high court bench is made up of senior barristers…

[Jimbo Ram]

27 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

Why would they think that they will lose?  Both M and WW's owners have been absolutely clear that they think they have a good case.  The EFL, despite their chairman apparently not having the foggiest idea what the cases are, also think that they have a case to argue - though it isn't clear how they have reached that decision.  Both M and WW have apparently had legal advice which is obviously not telling them that they will lose, otherwise they would have quietly dropped the cases.

Gibbon may well hate Mel and want money.  He might even hate us and DCFC generally.  Ditto the yank.  They might both judge that delaying the process helps them win their cases (though I think they both accuse both Mel and Q as being the cause of more delays) but I would be convinced that they both think that they have a case that they can win

Because it is total nonsense, that's the main reason.....

[Ram a lamb a ding dong]

I am still astounded by the level of incompetence from all concerned.

I would love to sit round a table with all 0f them and find out their spin on things. I'm 99% concerned I would walk pit shaking my head on disbelief.

The EFL are an absolute disgrace

Gibbon, Cohig are parasites with mo morals

MM..............

[PistoldPete]

9 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

I know. My point is that Mel Morris has lost all faith in the EFL process and will not wish to expose his personal assets to three barristers under an arbitration process when he can have the matter heard by the best judges in the land in the High Court. By taking it to the High Court Mel has clearly much confidence that they will throw. the claims out or at worst reduce any award to an absolute minimum. If Mel wins, Gibson is liable for costs. I think that if the EFL agrees to Mel's proposal there is a very good chance that the parasite clubs will withdraw the claims because Mel will the hot favourite to win in court. Taking the claims away from the EFL completely, opens the door for Q to accelerate administration.

To be honest Brailsford I actually will not care whether he wins or not provided the risk is taken away from DCFC. 
 

but on balance Gibson’s statements and stinky hypocrisy , not to mention his wilful (rather than Mel’ s accidental ) destructiveness make Gibson the greater of the two evils. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Chris_D said:

Frankly I don’t care what Mel thinks and funnily enough the high court bench is made up of senior barristers…

No it will be made up of senior judges who came through the giddy climb through the Bar to get there. For what it is worth, as a supporter of this club for 61 years, at this critical time, frankly I care much more about what Mel thinks than what you think. He is still in a position to help despite being largely responsible for taking us to where we are. You and I are not. I rest my case your Honour.

[Ghost of Clough]

43 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Oh, I can.

Just about every utterance from Fortress EFL is 50% bluster, 50% backtracking. They see themselves as unaccountable - as logical as a cycling fish.

If this was any point up to the middle of Jan 2022 I would agree with you. There's too much external pressure (MPs, etc...) for them to block it now.

23 minutes ago, rammieib said:

 

Except I don't think the EFL will have the power to make the Boro/Wycombe claims go to the high court. Only the two clubs can accept that.

However - at the same time, the EFL haven't even bothered enforcing their own rule of clubs not being allowed to claim from each other.

This is about the EFL blocking (or not blocking) it, rather than forcing the parasite clubs to go to court

[Elwood P Dowd]

1 hour ago, Brailsford Ram said:

There are ways for the justice system to remove quite swiftly any fears we have of the EFL at this critical point in time. Court injunctions and if needs be a judicial review are possibilities but will require funding with the proviso that costs can be awarded against the appropriate party.

From the EFL's point of view if any part of these issues finds itself in front of the High Court then the EFL rule book will come under intense scrutiny. If I was the chump who had drawn up those rules, I would at this moment be ringing around with a view to securing future employment. elsewhere and probably beyond these shores  I think the dice are now loaded in DCFC's favour in comparison with a couple of weeks ago. This is the time for us to hit back. We are not dead yet.

I agree, if I had drafted some of the EFLs rules I would be very concerned now, the rules are drafted with a certain arrogance it is as though the person who drafted them never expected them to be tested. 
 

I am worried about arbitration, I think my worry goes back to Derbys amortisation review under the LAP, Derby were denied the opportunity to call an Accounting expert! I note your reference to Kangaroo court and I agree, he who controls the process and procedure can have a big influence on the outcome.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Elwood P Dowd

[Eatonram]

@Brailsford Ram is there no legal process where Mel could apply to have the claims heard at the HC(due to the obvious time issues affecting DCFC) which compels Boro/WW either to make their case or drop their case?? It seems strange that there is no process. Boro could basically just leave the claim there, unresolved, for another year? 2 ?

[ilkleyram]

17 minutes ago, TooFarInToTurnRed said:

Are you sure Wycombe have actually had any legal advice? I understood that they have not filed any formal proceedings at all but have just sent a ‘Letter before action’ which will have cost virtually nothing.

Potential costs of any sort of proceedings either through EFL or Courts would I suspect would make them reappraise. Contrary to popular belief I think most decent lawyers would tell their client honestly if they did not have a case and even refuse representation if they adamantly felt they would lose. They wouldn’t just pursue it for a payday. 

Well WW's owner is meant to be a hot shot lawyer so he's probably given himself some advice.  They've also written a letter before action - I don't know about you, maybe you are a lawyer, but I hadn't heard of a LBA before all this started happening.  It certainly suggests that lawyers have been involved at WW somewhere along the line.

We know that M have had legal advice because the lawyer apparently isn't available until May which is causing some delay in proceedings.

My, somewhat jaundiced I accept, view of the legal profession is that there is always a lawyer willing to argue a case. I would accept that no lawyer will ever say to anyone - you are guaranteed to win.  Perhaps the M/WW lawyers have said that their chances are less than 50% but perhaps M/WW are happy to take those odds.

Whether we like it or not M do have a case.  We may not think it's a very good or strong one, we may well feel that the consequences to football will be catastrophic should their case prevail, but they do have a case.  How strong it is will ideally be tested in the HC so that we can move on in the meantime