The Administration Thread

[Cool As Custard]

17 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Did I miss hearing previously that 'The Appleby bid' was also happy to take on Boro & Wycombe's claims should the need arise? Starts talking about the bids at 19:40.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0013x5k/east-midlands-today-evening-news-24012022

Yes but remember those words came from the mouth of Natalie Jackson - I'd take it with a pinch of salt Roy!

Rather than say what I really think, I'll be kind and say she gets easily confused bless her ?

[Cool As Custard]

13 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

If Boro and other claim allowed surely we can claim against them and EFL for lost transfer income on the players we are losing due to them delaying our sale and not letting them sign/extend due to embargos? Would have more grounds than their claims against us

[RoyMac5]

 

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, Charlotte Ram said:

HMRC will always accept a payment plan provided it is realistic and presented alongside a business plan which can be monitored, this I can confirm from recent experience, my offer would be 50% upfront and then the remainder at £292k per month over 48 months, no way HMRC would turn that proposal down.

That would make an offer of £28million very doable/workable and would /should satisfy the EFL, with the stadium now sorted whether by purchase or leasehold agreement, I am 100% confident that the Rams will be safe by 2/1/22, 

What you've proposed it £28m for HMRC, £10m in admin related costs, £8.4m in transfers and about £2.2m for unsecured creditors.

That's £48.6m before we even think about paying £20m to get the stadium back or paying Boro/Wycombe whatever an arbitration panel decide.

 

1 hour ago, Cool As Custard said:

No - we dont have to pay it off in one go. We can continue to pay off at the original phasing agreed at the time of the transfer however we will have some catching up to do in the summer as because we were in administration Arsenal allowed us to delay the last payment that was due a few months ago until the end of the season.

Reports suggested we paid off the deferred installment, so we should have less than the £8.4m which ive previously stated left to pay.

 

1 hour ago, Bobby said:

Which would then give the green light to every other football cub to potentially only pay 1/4 of what they owe, the whole point of HMRC changing their creditor status was to stop this happening. 

HMRC will judge the merits of how much they can claim on a case by case basis. Owners will not choose to ho into administration on a whim.

[Bobby]

1 hour ago, Foreveram said:

With all due respect it’s a bit rich a QPR fan posting about a club repaying it’s debts ?

It was a big bone of contention back in 2002 when we went into administration that a lot of local businesses went bust on the back of it, didn’t sit right with a lot of fans.

we are also probably the only club to go into Admin and comes out owing more than they went in with after a dodgy loan from Panama from a company called ABC, it was 10 million,1 million a year repayments which was interest only with the whole 10 million due at the end of it, if it hadn’t of been for Briatore and Bernie Ecclestone buying us we would almost have certainly gone out of business, the way they ran the club and tried to turn it into some kind of London Boutique is a different story. (You were one of the first to suffer the huge price hikes if I remember properly) . 
 
my original post regarding HMRC is valid I reckon, yes 7 million is better than nothing but going forward if they set a precedent they could lose a lot more especially as there’s more than a few clubs circling the drain at the moment.

[StaffsRam]

11 minutes ago, Bobby said:

It was a big bone of contention back in 2002 when we went into administration that a lot of local businesses went bust on the back of it, didn’t sit right with a lot of fans.

we are also probably the only club to go into Admin and comes out owing more than they went in with after a dodgy loan from Panama from a company called ABC, it was 10 million,1 million a year repayments which was interest only with the whole 10 million due at the end of it, if it hadn’t of been for Briatore and Bernie Ecclestone buying us we would almost have certainly gone out of business, the way they ran the club and tried to turn it into some kind of London Boutique is a different story. (You were one of the first to suffer the huge price hikes if I remember properly) . 
 
my original post regarding HMRC is valid I reckon, yes 7 million is better than nothing but going forward if they set a precedent they could lose a lot more especially as there’s more than a few clubs circling the drain at the moment.

ABC, OMG another blast from the past! No need to tell us about those dodgy ****ers mate, we had the ‘pleasure’ as well…. ?

Edited January 24, 2022 by StaffsRam

[Half Fan Half Biscuit]

1 hour ago, Bobby said:

Which would then give the green light to every other football cub to potentially only pay 1/4 of what they owe, the whole point of HMRC changing their creditor status was to stop this happening. 

But presumably all other clubs are up to date with HMRC, or at least up to date with their payment plans otherwise they’d be under transfer embargo’s?

[Ram-Alf]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

I can see Nixon of Crock Green speaks with fork tongue, He was spot on with the "Verbal Discussions" as I don't believe there's another way.

[StaffsRam]

2 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I can see Nixon of Crock Green speaks with fork tongue, He was spot on with the "Verbal Discussions" as I don't believe there's another way.

[Ram-Alf]

3 minutes ago, StaffsRam said:

[Comrade 86]

3 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

This is a joke surely. EFL have already made their position abundantly clear so why the necessity to go back and "clarify" what is already public knowledge. 

This way the EFL have to publicly admit they have awarded MFC and the tinpot mob 'football creditor' status or at very least that they themselves insisted that they be added to the creditors list. This in turn begs the absolute killer question: how so given this has been done without any form of consultation or arbitration, effectively deeming Derby guilty without trial or oversight? Why would this be significant? Because this exposes their earlier public statements claiming to have had zero input as yet more bare-faced lies and also clearly illustrates the EFL's dictatorial nature and blatant disregard for fair, transparent and even-handed adjudication.

There is and always has been a strategy behind Quantuma's PR and that has simply been to give the EFL enough rope to hang themselves. The EFL initially saw Quantuma's silence as weakness and in tandem with the other two mobs piled on, thinking they were winning the war. As it is, they've been hopelessly outthought and outgunned. They will now try to position their change of heart as being down to concessions made by the admins, or a softening in their own stance, whereas it is in fact, nothing less than an ignominious climbdown. The EFL's arrogance led them to overplay their hand and they've now been served up their proverbials on a very cold plate. 

I said a few weeks ago that the most 'ironic aspect of this whole shabby tale' was that we could now be witnessing the end of the EFL 'at least in its current guise'. This is so much better than that.

[Ram-Alf]

8 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

This way the EFL have to publicly admit they have awarded MFC and the tinpot mob 'football creditor' status or at very least that they themselves insisted that they be added to the creditors list. This in turn begs the absolute killer question: how so given this has been done without any form of consultation or arbitration, effectively deeming Derby guilty without trial or oversight? Why would this be significant? Because this exposes their earlier public statements claiming to have had zero input as yet more bare-faced lies and also clearly illustrates the EFL's dictatorial nature and blatant disregard for fair, transparent and even-handed adjudication.

There is and always has been a strategy behind Quantuma's PR and that has simply been to give the EFL enough rope to hang themselves. The EFL initially saw Quantuma's silence as weakness and in tandem with the other two mobs piled on, thinking they were winning the war. As it is, they've been hopelessly outthought and outgunned. They will now try to position their change of heart as being down to concessions made by the admins, or a softening in their own stance, whereas it is in fact, nothing less than an ignominious climbdown. The EFL's arrogance led them to overplay their hand and they've now been served up their proverbials on a very cold plate. 

I said a few weeks ago that the most 'ironic aspect of this whole shabby tale' was that we could now be witnessing the end of the EFL 'at least in its current guise'. This is so much better than that.

To quote KK, I would ducking love it, ducking love it I tell ya, Them duckers deserve duckin for trying to duck us over, It makes me ducking sick to ducking death them Boro duckers

[PistoldPete]

18 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

This way the EFL have to publicly admit they have awarded MFC and the tinpot mob 'football creditor' status or at very least that they themselves insisted that they be added to the creditors list. This in turn begs the absolute killer question: how so given this has been done without any form of consultation or arbitration, effectively deeming Derby guilty without trial or oversight? Why would this be significant? Because this exposes their earlier public statements claiming to have had zero input as yet more bare-faced lies and also clearly illustrates the EFL's dictatorial nature and blatant disregard for fair, transparent and even-handed adjudication.

There is and always has been a strategy behind Quantuma's PR and that has simply been to give the EFL enough rope to hang themselves. The EFL initially saw Quantuma's silence as weakness and in tandem with the other two mobs piled on, thinking they were winning the war. As it is, they've been hopelessly outthought and outgunned. They will now try to position their change of heart as being down to concessions made by the admins, or a softening in their own stance, whereas it is in fact, nothing less than an ignominious climbdown. The EFL's arrogance led them to overplay their hand and they've now been served up their proverbials on a very cold plate. 

I said a few weeks ago that the most 'ironic aspect of this whole shabby tale' was that we could now be witnessing the end of the EFL 'at least in its current guise'. This is so much better than that.

Spot on. EFL's statements just get more and more desperate. 

[Indy]

31 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

This way the EFL have to publicly admit they have awarded MFC and the tinpot mob 'football creditor' status or at very least that they themselves insisted that they be added to the creditors list. This in turn begs the absolute killer question: how so given this has been done without any form of consultation or arbitration, effectively deeming Derby guilty without trial or oversight? Why would this be significant? Because this exposes their earlier public statements claiming to have had zero input as yet more bare-faced lies and also clearly illustrates the EFL's dictatorial nature and blatant disregard for fair, transparent and even-handed adjudication.

There is and always has been a strategy behind Quantuma's PR and that has simply been to give the EFL enough rope to hang themselves. The EFL initially saw Quantuma's silence as weakness and in tandem with the other two mobs piled on, thinking they were winning the war. As it is, they've been hopelessly outthought and outgunned. They will now try to position their change of heart as being down to concessions made by the admins, or a softening in their own stance, whereas it is in fact, nothing less than an ignominious climbdown. The EFL's arrogance led them to overplay their hand and they've now been served up their proverbials on a very cold plate. 

I said a few weeks ago that the most 'ironic aspect of this whole shabby tale' was that we could now be witnessing the end of the EFL 'at least in its current guise'. This is so much better than that.

I agree. For all grief they’ve been getting, I think Quantuma have been pretty good. I think it took them a while to realise/admit that they weren’t on a level playing field, and that the griping Morris had about the EFL’s treatment of Derby had some merit. But since last Friday they’ve played a blinder. Said just enough about the EFL’s stance being possibly “against statute” to set the cat among the pigeons and it has escalated beautifully. Watching all other parties talk too much mainly because their bruised egos didn’t like being seen as the bad guys was great. 
 

As Napoleon said: “Never interrupt your enemy when they’re making a mistake.”

Hopefully some common sense will prevail in the next few days and weeks. 

[PistoldPete]

4 minutes ago, Indy said:

I agree. For all grief they’ve been getting, I think Quantuma have been pretty good. I think it took them a while to realise/admit that they weren’t on a level playing field, and that the griping Morris had about the EFL’s treatment of Derby had some merit. But since last Friday they’ve played a blinder. Said just enough about the EFL’s stance being possibly “against statute” to set the cat among the pigeons and it has escalated beautifully. Watching all other parties talk too much mainly because their bruised egos didn’t like being seen as the bad guys was great. 
 

As Napoleon said: “Never interrupt your enemy when they’re making a mistake.”

Hopefully some common sense will prevail in the next few days and weeks. 

Exactly. Just let the EFL did a bigger hole for themselves. 

[ilkleyram]

10 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

This way the EFL have to publicly admit they have awarded MFC and the tinpot mob 'football creditor' status or at very least that they themselves insisted that they be added to the creditors list. This in turn begs the absolute killer question: how so given this has been done without any form of consultation or arbitration, effectively deeming Derby guilty without trial or oversight? Why would this be significant? Because this exposes their earlier public statements claiming to have had zero input as yet more bare-faced lies and also clearly illustrates the EFL's dictatorial nature and blatant disregard for fair, transparent and even-handed adjudication.

There is and always has been a strategy behind Quantuma's PR and that has simply been to give the EFL enough rope to hang themselves. The EFL initially saw Quantuma's silence as weakness and in tandem with the other two mobs piled on, thinking they were winning the war. As it is, they've been hopelessly outthought and outgunned. They will now try to position their change of heart as being down to concessions made by the admins, or a softening in their own stance, whereas it is in fact, nothing less than an ignominious climbdown. The EFL's arrogance led them to overplay their hand and they've now been served up their proverbials on a very cold plate. 

I said a few weeks ago that the most 'ironic aspect of this whole shabby tale' was that we could now be witnessing the end of the EFL 'at least in its current guise'. This is so much better than that.

Yes, but.  So far the EFL have shown no sign of wanting to make a decision either way on whether MFC/WW are football creditors or not.  They have consistently said that the matter should be subject to arbitration which process they suggest has started (they've never answered the questions why it taken so long if it began 12 months ago, nor explained why they are wishing to stay out of their own arbitration process or how their Chairman apparently knows nothing about the detail of the claims - bet he does now).  It would take a humiliating u-turn for them to reach a decision on whether they're football creditors or not in the next 24 hours. They would be open to legal challenge from both MFC and WW.

As Chris Coles said on the moan-in tonight it still remains the key question. 

I'm not convinced the EFL will shift their basic stance. There's too much risk to them, too much been said in public and too little leadership in the organisation. So what compromise could be found? If the bidders/PB is prepared to take on MFC/WW after taking over, then the EFL could agree to hold the 'arbitration' process up to allow the takeover to happen with the result of the arbitration binding on all parties; they could lift any threat of us being liquidated on February 1st by extending the timelines to, say, the end of June (that presumes we can find enough money to get through to that point but we should be able to do so if we can announce the PB and let them take over the running and funding of the club in advance of formal agreement with all the creditors).  If I were the administrators I would want an immediate lifting of the embargo and an end to any threat of further points deductions as a minimum.

Carlile's statement that they are prepared to take on the challenge of MFC/WW is helpful in that it allows at least one bidder to extend the timescales. It also encourages the other two to do likewise as part of their bids.  The administrators will find it harder - and we might be back to square one - if the other bidders refuse to take on any MFC/WW liability but offer the creditors more money

[ilkleyram]

Interesting that MFC lost tonight and are just outside the play off places as a result.  If those three points matter at the end of the season they might add another failed play off position to our list of crimes.  After all we did sell Bradley to Blackburn because we couldn't afford to keep him after all our financial mismanaging and had he not played they would have won.

[Foreveram]

1 hour ago, Bobby said:

It was a big bone of contention back in 2002 when we went into administration that a lot of local businesses went bust on the back of it, didn’t sit right with a lot of fans.

we are also probably the only club to go into Admin and comes out owing more than they went in with after a dodgy loan from Panama from a company called ABC, it was 10 million,1 million a year repayments which was interest only with the whole 10 million due at the end of it, if it hadn’t of been for Briatore and Bernie Ecclestone buying us we would almost have certainly gone out of business, the way they ran the club and tried to turn it into some kind of London Boutique is a different story. (You were one of the first to suffer the huge price hikes if I remember properly) . 
 
my original post regarding HMRC is valid I reckon, yes 7 million is better than nothing but going forward if they set a precedent they could lose a lot more especially as there’s more than a few clubs circling the drain at the moment.

I was thinking more about when you “ Cheated us “ in the playoffs with debts of £171 million, and then getting relegated, receiving a £42 million fine and then “ negotiating “ it down to £17 million payable over 10 years 

[Eatonram]

18 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

I was thinking more about when you “ Cheated us “ in the playoffs with debts of £171 million, and then getting relegated, receiving a £42 million fine and then “ negotiating “ it down to £17 million payable over 10 years 

Of which Derby got how much “compensation”? Let us know Bobby. 

[Rev]

4 hours ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

I started reading this as if it was a nice little poem but ended up in the South Stand

Here's a poem written especially for Steve Gibson, many years ago.