The Administration Thread

[i-Ram]

1 minute ago, I know nuffin said:

I know nufgin so you know everyfin so can you tell me:- how much the Binnie bid is and your source of that number. 2. The percentage we are paying HMRC and your source. 3. Why the administrators (and this is a guess) appear to have accepted the Binnie figure. Let me know so I know sumfin. Thank you

I haven’t suggested I know everything. I only give my opinion, for what worth, on things I do know. Go and enjoy the game.

p.s. Your guess regarding the Administrators accepting the Binnie figure is incorrect. They have not announced any preferred bidder yet, and up to that point they will not be taking forward anyones bid. And then it is up to the creditors to decide whether they accept any offer. 

[RoyMac5]

11 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

The loan is being shown separated at the top of the pile as preferential and unsecured creditors are not entitled to rely on those assets, until the MSD loan has been repaid and then any surplus is only available once MSD are satisfied.

So are you saying the MSD loan has to be repaid before any other creditors?

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

3 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

After the excitement of yesterday….. nothing.

No comment from the administrators (who one would imagine were desperate for good news to spread), nothing from the club. Nothing to see here, move on.

Funny how every time Armageddon nears, a bid rumour emerges. First Ashley, now Carlisle. Big flurry of excitement then silence, like a disappointing firework.

I’m sure there are any number of good reasons, but as a fan it’s ruining my excitement about the game today.

There. That’s off my chest ?

I think you’ll find that the administrators will be waiting to see what happens with the other bidders over the weekend before making any announcement. 
 

At the end of the day, they don’t need to say if a bid has been out through, Radio Derby did that for them which I’m sure alerted other bidders if they didn’t already know. 
 

In fact, I’m guessing that bid came in well before we found out about it and any other bidder would have known before it was told to the media. 
 

Probably the biggest weekend in DCFCs history is just about to unfold, starting with 3 points today. 
 

COYR ⚽️

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So are you saying the MSD loan has to be repaid before any other creditors?

In the event of liquidation yes.

If we get a buyer then I would assume it can continue to be repaid under the agreed terms, or re-negotiated.

Edited January 22, 2022 by G STAR RAM

[i-Ram]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So are you saying the MSD loan has to be repaid before any other creditors?

I am 5 mins from home Roy. On a much interrupted walk ? I will reply in the next half hour.

[Tyler Durden]

2 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

This makes me want to canonize Rooney.

But he'd have to be dead for that happen and he has to lead us out of this mess and into the Premier League first.

Thanks to @angieram for posting this in the other thread.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b94deebc-7ad5-11ec-9998-b2483743c25e?shareToken=67dbf7f4530033813339162cd2845a6e

And also calls out Morris for the kind of person he was. 

Charity donations to local hospitals do not paint over the entire debacle he's overseen. Truly shocking. 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Tyler Durden said:

And also calls out Morris for the kind of person he was. 

Charity donations to local hospitals do not paint over the entire debacle he's overseen. Truly shocking. 

Indeed.

I was very impressed to read Rooney had spoken with players parents asking them to watch out for signs of mental health problems. Although I'm not sure Jags was one of those players? ? 

[Tyler Durden]

I have to say that my total contempt for Morris has grown at an equivalent rate as my total admiration for Rooney as a person.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Tyler Durden

[strawhillram]

I’m  wondering what happens to any sell on fees and other add ins that we may have for players we have sold such as Gordon to Liverpool. Assuming we were sure enough to do this.

 These can’t be be on the balance sheet or treated as assets as there are  no guarantees they will be realised in the future.

 But if we are liquidated where would any  future payments go? will the buying club reap the benefit?

[Sparkle]

9 minutes ago, StrawHillRam said:

I’m  wondering what happens to any sell on fees and other add ins that we may have for players we have sold such as Gordon to Liverpool. Assuming we were sure enough to do this.

 These can’t be be on the balance sheet or treated as assets as there are  no guarantees they will be realised in the future.

 But if we are liquidated where would any  future payments go? will the buying club reap the benefit?

The money goes to the EFL to give to Middlesbrough and Wycombe if they are classed as football creditors along with any other football creditors 

[We'll be back in 81]

Sorry if this has been covered before but can we come out of administration now a preferred bidder has said they will take on the claims or will they still need to be resolved before we can?

[RadioactiveWaste]

Just now, hiltonram said:

Sorry if this has been covered before but can we come out of administration now a preferred bidder has said they will take on the claims or will they still need to be resolved before we can?

In theory if the bid is accepted, then yes. Ovbiously as there's still a way between prefered bidder and deal done and we're out of admin when the deal is done and creditors paid.

[PistoldPete]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

From everything I had read up to this point, I had believed that the £20m was a debt of Derby County, however, having re-visited the statement of affairs, I now agree with you that it isn't, instead I believe it to be a debt of a group company secured against club assets.

If that is correct, the actual debts of the club stand at around £64m.

Of that £64m circa £12m is owed to related companies (Gellaw and Club DCFC) so one would assume that these may not need to be repaid?

A further £6m was for advance season ticket sales, once again, although a liability by definition, this is something that will not need to be repaid if we are going to carry on trading.

If my thoughts and calculations are  correct, we therefore need £46m to pay off the creditors in full.

£8m of that relates to transfer installments so could also be due over a period of time.

Is it possible that we've all got swept away with the sensationalist headlines in the media and although bad, the debts of the club are actually not as catastrophic as painted?

In another couple of months time there will be another £10m? coming in the form of season ticket sales and our forward projections may show is in a sustainable position?

Its been a while but for the first time in a long time I feel optimistic about the future.

Oh and we're going to smash the red dogs today. COYR!

Well that doesn’t sound so bad . Especially the last bit.

[ollycutts1982]

It will be nice come 12:30 to actually concentrate on football for a couple of hours. I just hope it’s an enjoyable one. 

[StaffsRam]

5 minutes ago, ollycutts1982 said:

It will be nice come 12:30 to actually concentrate on football for a couple of hours. I just hope it’s an enjoyable one. 

After the fact maybe. In 35 years of following Derby I’ve enjoyed exactly one game before the final whistle against the tw*ts.

Every other game, during the 90+ minutes, horrible.

[Eddie]

59 minutes ago, I know nuffin said:

I know nufgin so you know everyfin so can you tell me:- how much the Binnie bid is and your source of that number. 2. The percentage we are paying HMRC and your source. 3. Why the administrators (and this is a guess) appear to have accepted the Binnie figure. Let me know so I know sumfin. Thank you

Nufgin?

More like nowherenearnufgin.

[We'll be back in 81]

19 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

In theory if the bid is accepted, then yes. Ovbiously as there's still a way between prefered bidder and deal done and we're out of admin when the deal is done and creditors paid.

What about the Middleboro and Wycombe claims, would they have to be resolved first?

[StaffsRam]

2 minutes ago, hiltonram said:

What about the Middleboro and Wycombe claims, would they have to be resolved first?

No.

[i-Ram]

35 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So are you saying the MSD loan has to be repaid before any other creditors?

If this ends up in a liquidation yes - MSD are at the front of the creditors queue for all income generated from asset sales (although Quantuma fees will need to be paid first). I think it unlikely in a liquidation that any other creditors will get anything. The leases would be come pretty valueless, and the prices offered for our footballing assets would drop away. MSD would be covered though, because if there is any shortfall they go for recovery from Morris and Gellaw under his guarantee and the fixed charge on the stadium.

However, we are all hoping that rather than liquidation, we come out under a CVA or restructuring arrangement, and the Club carries on trading, etc. A CVA is a voluntary arrangement between all the creditors that they will accept a certain pence per pound settlement, and will write off/have no future claim on the remainder debts subject to terms and conditions within the CVA being met and achieved. MSD as a secured creditor would be effectively agreeing to sharing some of the monies that are paid by a new owner for the club, so that other creditors get some return so a CVA (or non CVA restructuring) can be agreed. They will only want to do that if they are happy with the arrangements after the Club is purchased - e.g. they can foresee their loan being serviced, and repaid over an agreed term, and they always retain ample security in place (including the stadium owned by Morris (Gellaw)). 

Ideally I would think MSD would want out; they must be sick to the back teeth being in bed with Morris and DCFC, even at high interest rate return. So I think they would prefer an Ashley type offer of £30m to buy the Club, and £20m to buy the stadium from Morris (Gellaw), and then with Morris (Gellaw) repaying the MSD loan from those proceeds. The £30m Ashley would be paying for the Club only could then exclude any need to account for MSD, and could under say a CVA give a greater pence in the pound return to the other creditors. Note to continue operating as a football club and retaining our golden share, football creditors would have to get 100% repayment. To make sure we don’t get further point deductions from the EFL all other creditors would need to have a minimum return of 25%. The sticking point apparently for Ashley doing this kind of deal though is the EFLs current insistence that Boro and Wycombe’s spurious claims are contingent football creditor debts.

That is quite a simplistic overview, there is much more nuance in the detail.  I have decided not to go into any detail in this note regarding what apparently is Quantuma’s preferred exit route - a restructuring using class cram legislation - because a) I am going to open a beer now and watch the match and b) I think I have answered what you wanted to know. Up the Rams.

[WhiteHorseRam]

7 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

If this ends up in a liquidation

I think if this happens there will be a lot of blowback that could have quite massive consequences for the game and its governance.

You have a Govt looking around for ways to boost its flagging popularity and the EFL could be a handy pinata.

Parry on R5 said last night the EFL weren't happy with the social media 'noise.'

 

If liquidation happens - stand by your beds on that score.