Will Derby cash in on Bird and Knight

[Sparkle]

10 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Perhaps the only way to rebuild is by selling our best players. The club needs to survive as an entity. At this rate, it'll be a major triumph if we get a team onto the pitch for our first League One game of the 22-23 season. Selling players and reducing wage costs may be the only way to do this.

If we end up selling the best of what we have left and I mean Lawrence Jozwiak Belick Marshall Byrne Roos then I don’t end up being overly saddened but if we sell the youngsters and I mean Buchanan knight Sibley Bird Ebosele etc (cheaply as that is all it will be) then we might as well shut down or seriously downgrade our academy as we cannot justify a cost of £6 million per year. We might as well sign out of contract journeymen on short term deals for a lot less than £6 million a year.

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Sparkle said:

If we end up selling the best of what we have left and I mean Lawrence Jozwiak Belick Marshall Byrne Roos then I don’t end up being overly saddened but if we sell the youngsters and I mean Buchanan knight Sibley Bird Ebosele etc (cheaply as that is all it will be) then we might as well shut down or seriously downgrade our academy as we cannot justify a cost of £6 million per year. We might as well sign out of contract journeymen on short term deals for a lot less than £6 million a year.

Buchanan likely to go as his contract is up in summer.

[PistoldPete]

14 hours ago, atherstoneram said:

The administrators have already had to obtain a further loan and no it's not because of a short term cash flow problem,it is to cover day to day running costs.

Day to day running costs ie cash flow. Same thing.

[PistoldPete]

12 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

 

 

Book values are what P&S transfer profits are based off, so selling someone at a price which would result in us exceeding P&S limits usnt sensible.

 

Ongoing monthly losses are around the £1.2m mark (£14.4m over 12 months). Estimate summer income (sponsorship) and P&S exclusions to get a rough idea of the season P&S position.Sell Bielik and Jozwiak for a few quid, you quickly get close to the £13m mark again.

They'll apply when we return to the Championship 

So why would you exclude season ticket sales? Or match day income? Or tv money if we are on sky? 

 That’s a lot of income to ignore. 

[PistoldPete]

10 hours ago, angieram said:

It's what Bolton did. They did what they had to do to survive. We will be the same. 

I hope we will not be as desperate as Bolton. 

[angieram]

45 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I hope we will not be as desperate as Bolton. 

I do, too. But if you read some thoughts on here, liquidation is inevitable. 

I was just saying that we will do whatever we have to do to survive. 

[Ghost of Clough]

59 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

So why would you exclude season ticket sales? Or match day income? Or tv money if we are on sky? 

 That’s a lot of income to ignore. 

Matchday income (ST money) is released on a game by game basis and isn't ignored

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, angieram said:

I do, too. But if you read some thoughts on here, liquidation is inevitable. 

I was just saying that we will do whatever we have to do to survive. 

Which is of course what those bankers at Boro and Wycombe are depending on!

[i-Ram]

11 hours ago, angieram said:

It's what Bolton did. They did what they had to do to survive. We will be the same. 

I fear the same too Angie. I like a few others inc @Revthink HMRC are unlikely to cave easily. They have no particular interest in future tax revenue streams as argued by @PistoldPetethat is the business of the Exchequer. The Revenue’s role is to collect tax that is due. Given this is a test case for their new powers they will want to make their mark on football clubs, and we unfortunately are the first without a chair when the music stopped. Unless a buyer is prepared to pay well above the odds in the next month or so, and perhaps someone might be to retain the nucleus of our younger first team members and so there there remains some merit in retaining the Academy, it is a great concern to me that a number of players will be sold (or released) in January to reduce operating costs and make some token contribution to reducing tax liabilities.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

13 minutes ago, angieram said:

I do, too. But if you read some thoughts on here, liquidation is inevitable. 

I was just saying that we will do whatever we have to do to survive. 

I wouldn't say liquidation is inevitable, but if you asked the administrators now what position there is of survival, I would imagine it has shifted considerably from 95%.

The signs are pointing towards a difficult time for the club.

Let's remember, the administrators can read, they will see the fans wetting the bed on social media, panicking that their club could be liquidated and they remain silent. I know they can't respond to everything, but Derby being liquidated is pretty big.

They aren't saying anything as there probably isn't too much good news to give.

[Tamworthram]

4 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I wouldn't say liquidation is inevitable, but if you asked the administrators now what position there is of survival, I would imagine it has shifted considerably from 95%.

The signs are pointing towards a difficult time for the club.

Let's remember, the administrators can read, they will see the fans wetting the bed on social media, panicking that their club could be liquidated and they remain silent. I know they can't respond to everything, but Derby being liquidated is pretty big.

They aren't saying anything as there probably isn't too much good news to give.

I fear you are right. However, there is a glimmer of hope that they’re not saying anything because of confidentiality, because negotiations are now at a very delicate stage or because they don’t want to come out with positive indications at this moment in time in case it all collapses. They may think that, whilst regrettable, it’s best to let us fans go further into meltdown than risk jeopardising a deal or suggesting potentially false hope.

I’m trying to convince myself that this may be the case but not really succeeding. 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

1 minute ago, Tamworthram said:

I fear you are right. However, there is a glimmer of hope that they’re not saying anything because of confidentiality, because negotiations are now at a very delicate stage or because they don’t want to come out with positive indications at this moment in time in case it all collapses. They may think that, whilst regrettable, it’s best to let us fans go further into meltdown than risk jeopardising a deal or suggesting potentially false hope.

I’m trying to convince myself that this may be the case but not really succeeding. 

Well let's hope you are right and not me. The last 2 Decembers have been full of hope for takeovers that never materialised, I'm hoping this year is 3rd time lucky.

[Crewton]

15 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I fear the same too Angie. I like a few others inc @Revthink HMRC are unlikely to cave easily. They have no particular interest in future tax revenue streams as argued by @PistoldPetethat is the business of the Exchequer. The Revenue’s role is to collect tax that is due. Given this is a test case for their new powers they will want to make their mark on football clubs, and we unfortunately are the first without a chair when the music stopped. Unless a buyer is prepared to pay well above the odds in the next month or so, and perhaps someone might be to retain the nucleus of our younger first team members and so there there remains some merit in retaining the Academy, it is a great concern to me that a number of players will be sold (or released) in January to reduce operating costs and make some token contribution to reducing tax liabilities.

HMRC are set targets by the Treasury, so future tax revenues are an active concern to them. 

[Tamworthram]

11 minutes ago, Crewton said:

HMRC are set targets by the Treasury, so future tax revenues are an active concern to them. 

Tax receipts for 20/21 was over £500 billion. So any future revenue lost should DCFC go into liquidation would barely scratch the surface. You’re no doubt right about targets being set but I doubt they go down to such a micro level.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Tamworthram

[kingsy1884]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

Buchanan likely to go as his contract is up in summer.

Pretty sure it was quotes in the DET that there is a 1 Yr extention option in his contract so we could demand a fee.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 minute ago, kingsy1884 said:

Pretty sure it was quotes in the DET that there is a 1 Yr extention option in his contract so we could demand a fee.

We'd get compensation anyway

[minesahartington]

Of course they will. Unfortunately I don’t think the term “cash in” will be the reality though, sadly

[i-Ram]

58 minutes ago, Crewton said:

HMRC are set targets by the Treasury, so future tax revenues are an active concern to them. 

HMRC have no tax raising powers, so how can they be targetted on future tax revenues? I may be wrong - it is not my field - but surely they can only be targetted on collection success?

[angieram]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

I fear you are right. However, there is a glimmer of hope that they’re not saying anything because of confidentiality, because negotiations are now at a very delicate stage or because they don’t want to come out with positive indications at this moment in time in case it all collapses. They may think that, whilst regrettable, it’s best to let us fans go further into meltdown than risk jeopardising a deal or suggesting potentially false hope.

I’m trying to convince myself that this may be the case but not really succeeding. 

They have said that they are concentrating on what needs to be done rather than getting sidetracked responding to all the media speculation. The next meeting is scheduled with the supporters groups for next Wednesday (15th).

[StarterForTen]

3 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

HMRC have no tax raising powers, so how can they be targetted on future tax revenues? I may be wrong - it is not my field - but surely they can only be targetted on collection success?

Spot on @i-Ram. I've posted before that HMRC are the tax system's collection agency - sometimes it's bailiffs too! Their remit is very specific and it is to collect taxes that are due - or as much of that amount as is possible. Too many on here are politicising their role.

Being made preferential within the unsecured creditors list is just a (quite handy) tool to ensure they get as much as possible. But getting as much as possible is their only brief - not laying down markers for future football-related insolvencies.

And what is it with this argument about HMRC protecting future tax revenue streams by helping to keep DCFC alive? This is just not logical! DCFC - as far as HMRC are concerned - are merely a tax collection instrument and if it was not there, the vast majority of the tax funds it scoops up will be diverted to other tax collection instruments.