Will Derby cash in on Bird and Knight

[Alty_Ram]

Can't see us getting anything approaching normal market value for anyone sold unless they have multiple clubs chasing them, otherwise expect derisory bids giving just enough to keep the lights on for a little longer. As others have said, the administrators will want to get what they can for any assets but when push comes to shove they won't care about gutting the playing staff for whatever they can get because that's their job. To a point they will want to have a saleable product for prospective buyers but particularly if liquidation seems most likely then they will sell anything not nailed down. 

Without resolving the HMRC situation in a way that makes any financial sense to a potential buyer plus change of ownership by Jan then we are just another a fresh zebra corpse on the Savanna with vultures circling. Getting a workable resolution with HMRC is massive and nothing can move on without it. Also as others have said, players will leave regardless as some of the wages are unsustainable in league 1 even if we manage to stay afloat and get a new owner, others will simply not want to play in league 1 and will have their agents busy already.

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Taribo said:

sickening that selling our biggest asset will only cover less than 10% of our debt, a mere drop in the ocean. 

No just because they are anonymous doesn’t mean they don’t exist or are not credible. 
 

no offence to Tracy shaw . 

[PistoldPete]

35 minutes ago, Taribo said:

It's purely my opinion but I think that list of buyers lined up might include Rammie, Tracy Shaw and Tosh from The Bill. 

See my reply above . Which as meant to be a reply to this one.

[Leeds Ram]

If we are in the position that sales are necessary then I'm really starting to worry about our future. The idea our 'crown jewels' will fetch that much in this market is overly optimistic in my view. This is a team that can't score goals regularly, fails to regularly create chances and whose best asset is its ageing but relatively sturdy defence. In essence, the most functional part of our team are the ageing professionals and our weaker areas are where all these 'great players' are. 

 Lawrence will inevitably go but his fee will be small due to the contract situation and the injury prone Bielik  would surely be a big risk for most teams to consider paying much money for. I'd guess Knight and Buchanan would be our big draws who might earn a few million quid but when you consider what we got for Hendrik and Hughes I'm not overly optimistic. I'm not sure how much Bird and Sibley would bring in but I can't imagine it'd be that much given the past 18 months. 

[PistoldPete]

3 hours ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

I never mentioned for a second what made sense to you or I or any other football fan in Derby colours. 
 

I merely talked about potential cash raising and a ‘best’ case scenario of what could possibly be raised in January.

Trust me, what you or I think ‘makes sense’ won’t be what the ‘suits’ think make sense when faced with a tax bill of £20 million that can’t be negotiated on. 

What we are left with for 4 months of football when relegation to league 1 is nailed in regardless is not on their ‘to do’ list in any form at all.

Most of those listed won’t be hanging around in league 1 anyway and so getting the club through the period alive and well with a sale and a subsequent summer of recruiting what’s required for that level of football is top of a list of 1 item!

But the Hmrc will get nothing at all if we sell our best players for next to nothing. That will put off the buyers and then Msd will cash in , our football creditors paid and Hmrc get nothing. 

[Pearl Ram]

2 hours ago, jimtastic56 said:

Liverpool just signed a goalie from Derby, by the name of Charlotte Clarke. Even the women aren’t safe! Got to laugh or you would cry.

So that’ll be the end of Charlotte Ram then. Every cloud...?

[Ravabeerbelly]

19 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

But the Hmrc will get nothing at all if we sell our best players for next to nothing. That will put off the buyers and then Msd will cash in , our football creditors paid and Hmrc get nothing. 

Im not sure you’re seeing the same picture I am.

On July 1st we will officially become a league 1 club. That is inevitable regardless of any PR work carried out by WR and the players. On the same day several players, some of whom we could get fees for now and some of which well have paid a handsome wage for 6 months will be able to leave for no fee at all. What will we have gained? 

We will be getting relegated. there is no reason to continue to pay high wages for players that simply cannot help us stay up and who will for certain be looking to move on and not play in league 1.

The club owes a huge debt to (among others) HMRC that they won’t be writing any large % off from. 

The new owners, whoever they may be, won’t be buying the club until the secured debt (HMRC) is significantly lower than the value of the product (Derby FC) they’re buying. If the debt continues to remain higher than the value of the product the deal will be off and they’ll all disappear…then we have serious issues of insolvency and being wound up. 

Given that the results on the field will be meaningless in the end result (relegation) the target for the club now is reducing secured debt to enable the sale to go ahead. That means finding income from selling assets (players) and reducing overheads (wages) so that turnover can contribute to further reducing debt.

Forget all about staying up. This ain’t football related anymore. It’s about securing a future and given that an entire squad will need to be rebuilt for league 1 use the saleable assets we have now to secure the future of the football club and accept whatever on field rebuilding process is necessary to mount a promotion from league 1 in however many seasons it takes…cos doing it in season 1 from this starting point ain’t happening either!

Edited December 6, 2021 by Ravabeerbelly

[PistoldPete]

9 minutes ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

Im not sure you’re seeing the same picture I am.

On July 1st we will officially become a league 1 club. That is inevitable regardless of any PR work carried out by WR and the players. On the same day several players, some of whom we could get fees for now and some of which well have paid a handsome wage for 6 months will be able to leave for no fee at all. What will we have gained? 

We will be getting relegated. there is no reason to continue to pay high wages for players that simply cannot help us stay up and who will for certain be looking to move on and not play in league 1.

The club owes a huge debt to (among others) HMRC that they won’t be writing any large % off from. 

The new owners, whoever they may be, won’t be buying the club until the secured debt (HMRC) is significantly lower than the value of the product (Derby FC) they’re buying. If the debt continues to remain higher than the value of the product the deal will be off and they’ll all disappear…then we have serious issues of insolvency and being wound up. 

Given that the results on the field will be meaningless in the end result (relegation) the target for the club now is reducing secured debt to enable the sale to go ahead. That means finding income from selling assets (players) and reducing overheads (wages) so that turnover can contribute to further reducing debt.

Forget all about staying up. This ain’t football related anymore. It’s about securing a future and given that an entire squad will need to be rebuilt for league 1 use the saleable assets we have now to secure the future of the football club and accept whatever on field rebuilding process is necessary to mount a promotion from league 1 in however many seasons it takes…cos doing it in season 1 from this starting point ain’t happening either!

Where did I say anything about staying up? 
 

i said if you sell your best or most valuable players for next to nothing you risk putting off buyers of the club. Which could increase the chance of liquidation as you are cutting off future funding.

[Ravabeerbelly]

6 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Where did I say anything about staying up? 
 

i said if you sell your best or most valuable players for next to nothing you risk putting off buyers of the club. Which could increase the chance of liquidation as you are cutting off future funding.

Buyers of this football club will have no interest in which of the current players are still here. Derby County FC as an entity is big enough with a secure enough fanbase to secure it as a buyable business…..but only if current secured debt is reduced. 

No one is buying a football team they are buying the business. The business is the football club. Players will come and go and are just salable assets.

HMRC will be far more amicable towards writing off any of the debt and allowing g considerably more time to pay if they see substantial efforts coming in to make large payments off the debt. 

[Tyler Durden]

21 minutes ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

Buyers of this football club will have no interest in which of the current players are still here. Derby County FC as an entity is big enough with a secure enough fanbase to secure it as a buyable business…..but only if current secured debt is reduced. 

No one is buying a football team they are buying the business. The business is the football club. Players will come and go and are just salable assets.

HMRC will be far more amicable towards writing off any of the debt and allowing g considerably more time to pay if they see substantial efforts coming in to make large payments off the debt. 

Do you really think so? Not meant in a patronising manner btw.

If I saw a car on Autotrader with a full body kit, 19 inch alloys, Blaupunkt stereo, satnav and tracker then a month later all of those had been stripped out then I either wouldn't be interested anymore or would want a massive slice off the asking price. 

[PistoldPete]

26 minutes ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

Buyers of this football club will have no interest in which of the current players are still here. Derby County FC as an entity is big enough with a secure enough fanbase to secure it as a buyable business…..but only if current secured debt is reduced. 

No one is buying a football team they are buying the business. The business is the football club. Players will come and go and are just salable assets.

HMRC will be far more amicable towards writing off any of the debt and allowing g considerably more time to pay if they see substantial efforts coming in to make large payments off the debt. 

Yes it is a business. In business terms If you sell players at stupidly low prices you weaken the balance sheet.  If you sell all the saleable players for maybe less than £10 m total then you still have £46 million of debt , but no assets. How does that help HMRC,  or anyone? 

 

[PistoldPete]

5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Do you really think so? Not meant in a patronising manner btw.

If I saw a car on Autotrader with a full body kit, 19 inch alloys, Blaupunkt stereo, satnav and tracker then a month later all of those had been stripped out then I either wouldn't be interested anymore or would want a massive slice off the asking price. 

OMG. I actually agree with you!

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

Yes it is a business. In business terms If you sell players at stupidly low prices you weaken the balance sheet.  If you sell all the saleable players for maybe less than £10 m total then you still have £46 million of debt , but no assets. How does that help HMRC,  or anyone? 

 

The asking price is non negotiable.

Its all debt which needs reducing 

[Ravabeerbelly]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

Do you really think so? Not meant in a patronising manner btw.

If I saw a car on Autotrader with a full body kit, 19 inch alloys, Blaupunkt stereo, satnav and tracker then a month later all of those had been stripped out then I either wouldn't be interested anymore or would want a massive slice off the asking price. 

What if you saw the same car and bought it with all those extras but knew that in 6 months all those items were going to be taken off anyway?

Its a crap analogy and that’s the best I could do to compare it….

Football is like no other business. The business is the club and the fanbase. Not the players.

To try and use your car analogy…

What if someone was selling you a car from Alaska and it had snow traction tyres and chains on it….and the engine needed repairs that would cost more than the car itself. Would you buy it? 

What if the seller said the price stays the same but I’m going to carry out the repairs before you buy it and I’m going to sell those snow tyres and chains and give it to you with no tyres on it but give you some cash to buy normal tyres more suited to your roads for when it’s delivered….

I tried ??

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Do you really think so? Not meant in a patronising manner btw.

If I saw a car on Autotrader with a full body kit, 19 inch alloys, Blaupunkt stereo, satnav and tracker then a month later all of those had been stripped out then I either wouldn't be interested anymore or would want a massive slice off the asking price. 

Sorry .

The asking price is non negotiable as it’s all debt which needs reducing.

Also the players wages need paying 

[Ravabeerbelly]

11 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Yes it is a business. In business terms If you sell players at stupidly low prices you weaken the balance sheet.  If you sell all the saleable players for maybe less than £10 m total then you still have £46 million of debt , but no assets. How does that help HMRC,  or anyone? 

 

This isnt my opinion btw these are the facts and have been reported as such. 

The balance sheet is worthless as it stands. The secured debt outweighs potential balance sheet because that’s all a player is….it’s like saying you have half a million just because an estate agent valued your house at £500k…..

The HMRC debt is the stumbling block and thats approx £27 mill isn’t it? 

The asset is the football club and the fanbase and the future in come that generates!!! If someone said you can’t ever sign another player again I’d agree with you but players are simply a product that is worth cash….it’s like the fixtures and fittings in your house…the house is crap without them but not worthless!!

Keeping the players to sell later when they’re worth more (how is that even possible?) is pointless if on the meantime the business goes down the pan cos it can’t function!!! The priority right now is securing the future of the club not the future of the match results.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Ravabeerbelly

[jimtastic56]

Wigan had to let Jamal Lowe leave on the cheap and Swansea doubled their money in a season. Hope we can include some sell on clauses in any sales.

[GenBr]

6 hours ago, Oldben said:

Any money raised would go to creditors.

Selling best players now means a total team rebuild required under new owners.

Selling best players means that the teams incapable of trying to survive in the Championship, but also the club requires players capable of promoting the club in one season from league one.

The clubs blocked from buying anyone, and can only get free agents on low salaries so what quality players with an eye on clubs performance in League one can be signed.

The new owners will need to spend even more more to rebuild the team because bring in older or cheap players who will not promote Derby from league one.

The club has to sign players capable of performing well at the Championship level for a season in League one, and Championship players of quality are unlikely to sign for Derby if they teams in League one.

Derby will need a team and manager capable of promoting the team in one season.

 

Or we just cut costs even further and drop to league 2 and beyond. If the academy is still functioning we'll have players behind the ones we sell. We're hardly tearing up the league with the squad as it is, but most of our "talent" is out of contract in the summer so we need to get what we can whilst we can.

5 hours ago, sage said:

Sorry wrong person. The point stands. How many of our players are too good for League One?

What will be our priority in Jan? reducing the wage bill or bringing in fees?   Selling Buchanan, Bird, Knight and Sibley will have a negligible impact of wage bills and will actually cost more to replace in wages, so it's a false economy. We may sell one of our young players for a decent fee but to sell several is economic and footballing madness. 

Why would it cost more to replace in wages? Other youth players wont have higher wages and if it comes to it Derby can bring in players on a pittance if they really want to. If we get decent offers for anyone still under contract i'd accept. If we get any offers at all for the out of contracts as well id expect it wouldnt take much to see them go.

2 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

We have potential buyers lined up. If I was a potential buyer I really would not be happy at all of the clubs assets were being sold at silly prices.

Then these potential buyers need to step up. Players are only going to be sold because the process is taking so long. We don't know what the holdup is, but if its the hmrc debt i dont expect that will reduce significantly, so if anyone is still interested they may as well make it known now before we have to asset strip to keep the lights on.

[sage]

3 minutes ago, GenBr said:

Why would it cost more to replace in wages? Other youth players wont have higher wages and if it comes to it Derby can bring in players on a pittance if they really want to. If we get decent offers for anyone still under contract i'd accept. If we get any offers at all for the out of contracts as well id expect it wouldnt take much to see them go

Because Bird, Buchanan and Sibley are on artificially low wages for their experience and ability. Bird is on around £1500 a week, what do you think we would get for that? 

[Ravabeerbelly]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

Because Bird, Buchanan and Sibley are on artificially low wages for their experience and ability. Bird is on around £1500 a week, what do you think we would get for that? 

???? Dream on