EFL agrees 'suspension of the notice of withdrawal of membership'

[PistoldPete]

Just now, angieram said:

I think that's a bit harsh on Rams Trust. You expect a group of volunteers with unrelated full time jobs to have a full working knowledge of the EFL articles? Which as GR has just demonstrated, are convoluted at best. Why?

I am sure like many of us, they are having to learn all this stuff as they go.

On the other hand, the administrators will know as it is their job. 

I have read every link, judgement etc since these troubles started but I am learning new stuff every day, unfortunately.

Totally agree angie. It’s the Efl’s job to explain these rules and processes , they wrote them . 

[Ellafella]

2 hours ago, Ellafella said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/20/without-a-regulator-with-teeth-my-beloved-football-will-destroy-itself

It's good to know that there are MPs with an eye on this; the problem is that the very "suits" who're the problem have friends who sit in government thanks to a party "donation" system and a mutual "back-scratching" society. Boris, our PM though usually gets serious if he believes it's a "populist" vote-catcher so perhaps we need to keep an eye on what the impending "decision" about independent inspector of football. Concerted fan power is the only way.   

[Crewton]

5 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Totally agree angie. It’s the Efl’s job to explain these rules and processes , they wrote them . 

I think that's right - just like it was their job to write conditions in their FFP rules if they later intended to charge clubs with breaching them. Oh, sorry, I forgot : it was "before their time". ?

[angieram]

Don't take this the wrong way, people, but I do wonder how diverse the EFL is. There is one woman on their Board, a former tennis player. What about the staff? Are they all men, all white, all a bit well-heeled? I don't get the impression that they view the game like the average football supporter,  but I do get the impression that they think they know better than us! 

[Anag Ram]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

Don't take this the wrong way, people, but I do wonder how diverse the EFL is. There is one woman on their Board, a former tennis player. What about the staff? Are they all men, all white, all a bit well-heeled? I don't get the impression that they view the game like the average football supporter,  but I do get the impression that they think they know better than us! 

Male, pale and stale.

[angieram]

5 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Male, pale and stale.

I'm glad you said that and not me!

I've no problem with a majority of male staff, it's a men's game, but I do think that a few females helps to dilute the testosterone a bit.

And class is maybe a more important issue. Need people on there who stand on terraces, have to scrimp and save to follow their club rather than sit in the rarefied hospitality areas and feel the injustices of the rules that others create for them.

Edited November 24, 2021 by angieram

[i-Ram]

29 minutes ago, angieram said:

I think that's a bit harsh on Rams Trust. You expect a group of volunteers with unrelated full time jobs to have a full working knowledge of the EFL articles? Which as GR has just demonstrated, are convoluted at best. Why?

I am sure like many of us, they are having to learn all this stuff as they go.

On the other hand, the administrators will know as it is their job. 

I have read every link, judgement etc since these troubles started but I am learning new stuff every day, unfortunately.

I am not expecting all members of Rams Trust to know Angie, but those in appointed positions on the 'Executive' really should know, and if they don't they should stand down.

[angieram]

Just now, i-Ram said:

I am not expecting all members of Rams Trust to know Angie, but those in appointed positions on the 'Executive' really should know, and if they don't they should stand down.

Really? I have worked with charities for 35 years whose trustees will have a great knowledge of their own regulations, but other bodies? 

I am trying to think how good my working knowledge of the NHS constitution is after 35 years working alongside them, and it is sketchy at best. And I only got the local CCG constitution out when they arbitrarily stopped all our funding. 

I was a Governor at our local mental health Trust for three years and only just got my head around their governing documents as I finished my term of office.

I know Rams Trust are expanding their knowledge all the time and are looking for members who have expertise in these areas. 

[PistoldPete]

8 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I am not expecting all members of Rams Trust to know Angie, but those in appointed positions on the 'Executive' really should know, and if they don't they should stand down.

So you don't think that the EFL's job is to look after the interests of its members, including Derby who in fact are a founding member? And that should be particulary the case when the club is in distress? So when it is liasing with fans groups for EFL to explain what is going on, in accordance with the processes that they have written? Is that really expecting too much?

Because actually I think expecting fans groups to know all this really is expecting too much of them.

 

 

[i-Ram]

3 minutes ago, angieram said:

Really? I have worked with charities for 35 years whose trustees will have a great knowledge of their own regulations, but other bodies? 

I am trying to think how good my working knowledge of the NHS constitution is after 35 years working alongside them, and it is sketchy at best. And I only got the local CCG constitution out when they arbitrarily stopped all our funding. 

I was a Governor at our local mental health Trust for three years and only just got my head around their governing documents as I finished my term of office.

I know Rams Trust are expanding their knowledge all the time and are looking for members who have expertise in these areas. 

I accept minutae details might not be known, but this really is a fundamental. But lets say Jim and his Team really didn't know the basic details, if I was representing Supporters, and my Football Club had been put into Insolvency Procedures, one of my very first questions to the EFL would have been 'What might this mean to the status of our Club as a Member of the EFL'. Are you saying that question was never asked?

[i-Ram]

22 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

So you don't think that the EFL's job is to look after the interests of its members, including Derby who in fact are a founding member? And that should be particulary the case when the club is in distress? YES

So when it is liasing with fans groups for EFL to explain what is going on, in accordance with the processes that they have written? Is that really expecting too much? How do you know the EFL havent explained it to RamsTrust? 

Because actually I think expecting fans groups to know all this really is expecting too much of them. SEE MY REPLY TO ANGIE ABOVE

I really havent got time to debate back and forth today Pete. I am bowing out. I will leave it to you and Roy to keep the thread chugging along. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by i-Ram
Sorry; should have said - see my replies in bold within your post

[jono]

11 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Was something else huh!

For me, games like the Leeds play-off, smashing the Gumps 5-0, handing out a beating or two to the supposed top-dogs, the Cup games under Lamps, just grafting wins when we've been given no earthly chance of doing so. These are what being a supporter is all about in my mind and such events, rare though they have been in recent seasons, are more than enough to keep me coming back for more. Many seem weary of the game these days, though I can see ample reasons why they might be. All the same, it's a shame that some folk so quickly forget the good days and so often dwell on the bad. 

COYR

?????????? This season, at home, has largely been great. Sure we lack goals which for me is important; but weighed against that, the level of togetherness in the team, the much noiser supportive fans, the endeavour and fighting spirit, have all given me huge enjoyment and Sunday was a corker of game. 

[Ram-Alf]

55 minutes ago, angieram said:

I'm glad you said that and not me!

I've no problem with a majority of male staff, it's a men's game, but I do think that a few females helps to dilute the testosterone a bit.

And class is maybe a more important issue. Need people on there who stand on terraces, have to scrimp and save to follow their club rather than sit in the rarefied hospitality areas and feel the injustices of the rules that others create for them.

Black, Yellow, White or Green, Gay, Trans, Straight, Female, Male or the cow in the field as long as you're upto the job then that's fine by me.

Those words in bold type above are the words that matter, Not jobs for the boys/girls, Not nepotism, Not fast tracked because you can make a good coffee, Or have a bank balance to match your ego, Or have a good pair of T**s and teeth.

In the 70s you could say it was a mans world, It's now 2021, The old saying "behind every good Man is a good Woman" still stands, Unfortunately it's still a closed shop with the door open slightly for the minority to be invited in, I'd love to sit in on a Cabinet meeting, The IOC, FIFA, UEFA, EFL, CONCACAF, WHO, OPEC, ICC, MCC and any other world organisation that have funds you can trip over with high resolution glasses on, Where's there's money there's people that want to hold onto it, Corruption is a word bandid around like confetti at a wedding on a windy day.

Until the Man/Woman who get to vote decide they've had enough of all the dross that cling on to power you'll get the same people running those organisations above...but it wont happen...why because we can't be arsed to do what they do, We're all pigeon holed in life, We all have a routine in life, A station where we're comfortable in, A family we'd miss, Friends to talk too.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

I really havent got time to debate back and forth today Pete. I am bowing out. I will leave it to you and Roy to keep the thread chugging along. 

You carry on with your sniping and point-scoring. Seriously you expect RT members to be as clued up on the EFL as the EFL are. ?

[i-Ram]

13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

You carry on with your sniping and point-scoring. Seriously you expect RT members to be as clued up on the EFL as the EFL are. ?

There we are then. You twist my words if you wish. I do expect RT executives to know some basics. I have a lower bar set for you ?

[RadioactiveWaste]

Isn't this thing a "if you cannot fulfill the fixtures because you are in insovancy we have to say you can't be in the league any more" formality, which has been suspended because there is confidence the club will come out of insolvency?

So, agreement to suspend the notice is a good sign. It's presence just a part of being insolvent?

 

[angieram]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

I accept minutae details might not be known, but this really is a fundamental. But lets say Jim and his Team really didn't know the basic details, if I was representing Supporters, and my Football Club had been put into Insolvency Procedures, one of my very first questions to the EFL would have been 'What might this mean to the status of our Club as a Member of the EFL'. Are you saying that question was never asked?

I don't know, i-Ram, you'd have to ask the Rams Trust members who have been in meetings that. I have not seen the actual detail of that clause spelt out previously, by the EFL, the administrators or by any of the supporters groups, but it is sort of logical that if the club goes into liquidation that they will be kicked out of the League, isn't it? I suppose this is just the clause that states that is one of the options for exiting administration, and I have heard all parties talking about that. 

Not sure what else you want me to say. You seem to be accusing Rams Trust of something but I can't work out what.

[PistoldPete]

7 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Isn't this thing a "if you cannot fulfill the fixtures because you are in insovancy we have to say you can't be in the league any more" formality, which has been suspended because there is confidence the club will come out of insolvency?

So, agreement to suspend the notice is a good sign. It's presence just a part of being insolvent?

 

We have had an insolvency event. Doesn’t mean we cannot for now pay the player wages.

but even if we couldn’t Efl could postpone games . And even if we couldn’t finish this season doesn’t mean to say we have to drop out of the league? Only because Efl says so .

[RamsfanJim]

This was not directly referenced until the meeting last week - but there were questions in the past around Derby confirming their ability to complete the season. If the club cannot confirm that, the EFL has the right to suspend them from the league. They are saying they helped by NOT applying that rule (because this is actually still the case until a takeover, or the administrators bring enough money in to cover costs for the remainder of the season).

There was never an indication that they would have enforced this, but the fact they didn't has clearly helped...

[PistoldPete]

13 minutes ago, RamsfanJim said:

This was not directly referenced until the meeting last week - but there were questions in the past around Derby confirming their ability to complete the season. If the club cannot confirm that, the EFL has the right to suspend them from the league. They are saying they helped by NOT applying that rule (because this is actually still the case until a takeover, or the administrators bring enough money in to cover costs for the remainder of the season).

There was never an indication that they would have enforced this, but the fact they didn't has clearly helped...

Thanks Jim. But Efl saying they have the right to banish us from the League does not mean they have to do so, even under their own rules.

debenhams is still trading online I believe even though it went into liquidation.

Leeds went into liquidation I believe as did the old Wimbledon. In the latter case a new club was formed Mk dons based in Milton Keynes. They didn’t have to work their way up the football pyramid.