BuckoBeast Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, Rev said: I'm feeling a little pessimistic about the whole scenario, to be honest. In the last few days, the mood music around the club has changed. It now seems we're in a desperate fight just to survive, from a position a week or two ago when we knew the pitfalls, had dealt with the EFL, and could at least see a future even in League One. I don't know if that has transmitted through to the players given today's performance, but I'm nowhere near as optimistic as I was a week or two ago about on continued survival. agreed Kathcairns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Tup Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 26 minutes ago, Rev said: I'm feeling a little pessimistic about the whole scenario, to be honest. In the last few days, the mood music around the club has changed. It now seems we're in a desperate fight just to survive, from a position a week or two ago when we knew the pitfalls, had dealt with the EFL, and could at least see a future even in League One. I don't know if that has transmitted through to the players given today's performance, but I'm nowhere near as optimistic as I was a week or two ago about on continued survival. Yep that’s exactly where we are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OoooMarkWright Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 Another pessimistic article in The Athletic about our future. To summarise: Potential for more deductions next year if CVA not agree when leaving admin. Not a straightforward process and potentially very costly for new owners. Morris has screwed process up massively by keeping hold of the stadium. Made admin a nightmare. HMRC unlikely to accept 25/35p in £. A very tough negotiation. They’ll drive for full payment. No chance of sale by Jan. Fire sale likely. This is from an administrator who worked with Wigan. Granted they have no inside info, but they do understand the process. Ours is such a complex admin made worse by HMRC not being a preferred creditor and us not owning the ground. They were critical of our administrators so it could be a case of slating a rival, but more worrying news for me. There has definitely been a rise in these stories the last week. Time for another beer methinks! Derby4Me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidWalesRam Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 17 minutes ago, enachops said: Another pessimistic article in The Athletic about our future. To summarise: Potential for more deductions next year if CVA not agree when leaving admin. Not a straightforward process and potentially very costly for new owners. Morris has screwed process up massively by keeping hold of the stadium. Made admin a nightmare. HMRC unlikely to accept 25/35p in £. A very tough negotiation. They’ll drive for full payment. No chance of sale by Jan. Fire sale likely. This is from an administrator who worked with Wigan. Granted they have no inside info, but they do understand the process. Ours is such a complex admin made worse by HMRC not being a preferred creditor and us not owning the ground. They were critical of our administrators so it could be a case of slating a rival, but more worrying news for me. There has definitely been a rise in these stories the last week. Time for another beer methinks! What or who is CVA ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 19 minutes ago, enachops said: Another pessimistic article in The Athletic about our future. To summarise: Potential for more deductions next year if CVA not agree when leaving admin. Not a straightforward process and potentially very costly for new owners. Morris has screwed process up massively by keeping hold of the stadium. Made admin a nightmare. HMRC unlikely to accept 25/35p in £. A very tough negotiation. They’ll drive for full payment. No chance of sale by Jan. Fire sale likely. This is from an administrator who worked with Wigan. Granted they have no inside info, but they do understand the process. Ours is such a complex admin made worse by HMRC not being a preferred creditor and us not owning the ground. They were critical of our administrators so it could be a case of slating a rival, but more worrying news for me. There has definitely been a rise in these stories the last week. Time for another beer methinks! The guy who did the Wigan thing has been very negative from the start. Maybe he is sore he didn’t get the Derby gig but qunatuma did. Owen87ITK and r_wilcockson 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OoooMarkWright Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 28 minutes ago, MidWalesRam said: What or who is CVA ? Company Voluntary Agreement. Needed after admin apparently. Without one could mean further deductions in League 1. Or defer payments from CVA could mean further deductions. It’s going to be very expensive for new owners post admin. I have no idea what I’m going on about by the way. Just posting update from the article! MidWalesRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 What I would like to think they may exempted a payment plan of some kind in which it will be paid over period of time unless new owner or owners have very very very deep pockets. Who can pay of tax people in full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriggRam Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 Not sure if this is the right thread to put this, I've just watched MOTD, and the Watford v Citeh game, and all I could see was how poo Grealish is, then it occurring, they paid more money for him, than it would cost to buy Derby County Football Club I know nuffin and r_wilcockson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 11 hours ago, PistoldPete said: The guy who did the Wigan thing has been very negative from the start. Maybe he is sore he didn’t get the Derby gig but qunatuma did. Gerald Krasner, he was Leeds chairman back when he headed the consortium that "saved" them 2004-ish. He knows his stuff around administration etc, but I doubt he knows the detail of where Quantuma are in relation to their negotiations. It seems like he's laying out what the obstacles are, which is fair enough. I don't really get his point about the stadium though, unless Mel Morris is refusing to sell it for an affordable price. It's technically a separate transaction, though the cross-charge from MSD could be an issue, though they have been reported to be "helpful" by the Administrators. r_wilcockson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAM1966 Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 25 minutes ago, Crewton said: Gerald Krasner, he was Leeds chairman back when he headed the consortium that "saved" them 2004-ish. He knows his stuff around administration etc, but I doubt he knows the detail of where Quantuma are in relation to their negotiations. It seems like he's laying out what the obstacles are, which is fair enough. I don't really get his point about the stadium though, unless Mel Morris is refusing to sell it for an affordable price. It's technically a separate transaction, though the cross-charge from MSD could be an issue, though they have been reported to be "helpful" by the Administrators. Mel Morris should be gifting the stadium back, Im sorry but Morris shouldn't take one penny unless he leaves the club £15m in debt as he found it. His reckless gambling to the point that liquidation is nothing short of shamful. He's a man tht publically let us all think that all is well while maxing out tge Credit Cards then walking away with the clubs biggest asset in his back pocket is nothing short of a disgrace. BPV and Jimbo Ram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 35 minutes ago, Crewton said: Gerald Krasner, he was Leeds chairman back when he headed the consortium that "saved" them 2004-ish. He knows his stuff around administration etc, but I doubt he knows the detail of where Quantuma are in relation to their negotiations. It seems like he's laying out what the obstacles are, which is fair enough. I don't really get his point about the stadium though, unless Mel Morris is refusing to sell it for an affordable price. It's technically a separate transaction, though the cross-charge from MSD could be an issue, though they have been reported to be "helpful" by the Administrators. Well one day after Quantuma say they expect to complete the deal before end of January he says they won't? How does he know? I suppose the thing about the stadium is that is the only asset you could borow money against which would help pay debts off. So it needs to be included in the sale, which it will be as you say, but it does make it more complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRammette Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 Hindsight is a great thing but just how many companies etc there are should have been one of many huge red flags. Must have made unravelling everything for admin horrendous. Never a good sign without commercial reasons RAM1966 and r_wilcockson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Crewton said: Gerald Krasner, he was Leeds chairman back when he headed the consortium that "saved" them 2004-ish. He knows his stuff around administration etc, but I doubt he knows the detail of where Quantuma are in relation to their negotiations. It seems like he's laying out what the obstacles are, which is fair enough. I don't really get his point about the stadium though, unless Mel Morris is refusing to sell it for an affordable price. It's technically a separate transaction, though the cross-charge from MSD could be an issue, though they have been reported to be "helpful" by the Administrators. Who exactly decides how much the stadium is worth? Isn’t that part of the reason we’re in this mess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 Just now, Anag Ram said: Who exactly decides how much the stadium is worth? Isn’t that part of the reason we’re in this mess? It's "worth" whatever the buyer wants to pay for it and whatever the seller will accept. Its value for accounting purposes is a separate matter and, I think, the rules have been changed so that any profit or liability arising from its transfer is outside of FFP calculations. Tamworthram, r_wilcockson, RadioactiveWaste and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Anag Ram said: Who exactly decides how much the stadium is worth? Isn’t that part of the reason we’re in this mess? It was assessed by an independent valuer as the price to be paid by a willing buyer to a willing seller on a commercial arms length basis. We are now in a situation where the main tenant is is in dire financial straits. No need for an independent valuer, especailly as Mel doesn'tt own the club anymore. The stadium has to be sold to the buyers of the club at an attractive price to make up for the unattractive debt a buyer of the club would be asked to take on. RAM1966 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Git Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 (edited) PP is worthless if we go under, (apart from the value of the land). Edited December 5, 2021 by Grumpy Git Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingpin Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said: value of the land Which is considerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 36 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said: PP is worthless if we go under, (apart from the value of the land). What about Greggs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hintonsboots Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 30 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: What about Greggs? I’m sure they’ll roll with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriggRam Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 Basically as a collector of all items DCFC mm has the trump card ziggyram59 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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