Steve Gibson trying to liquidate Derby

[angieram]

8 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

 

 

I started the thread after reading a piece which said "Teesside Live understands Boro are indeed continuing to pursue their action against the Rams." And Angie seemed to confirm this with minutes from Ramstrust (I think). But then she adds (I don't know where thus comes from) that Gibson can't sue us if in administration, but if that were the case I don't understand why we would have engaged lawyers.

But none of this suggests he's not suing the club. It seems pretty clear that he is. Why do you think otherwise?

The administrators told the Supporters Charter Group Meeting that lawyers had been engaged on both sides, but that the action is currently on hold as they can't sue us while we are in administration. They need to sort it so it doesn't continue when we move out of admin. 

That's what I know. 

[i-Ram]

9 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

 

 

I started the thread after reading a piece which said "Teesside Live understands Boro are indeed continuing to pursue their action against the Rams." And Angie seemed to confirm this with minutes from Ramstrust (I think). But then she adds (I don't know where thus comes from) that Gibson can't sue us if in administration, but if that were the case I don't understand why we would have engaged lawyers.

But none of this suggests he's not suing the club. It seems pretty clear that he is. Why do you think otherwise?

There is no point him trying to sue the club because if we are in Administration he would have nothing to gain. Even if he could prove a case - highly unlikely - and won, any award would rank as an unsecured creditor and get 2/3 of 3/4 of 5/8 of FA. If as part of Administration the club was bought, it would be bought by a different entity, and the entity to which Gibson would be suing would cease to exist.

If he should proceed with any case I cannot see the EFL would permit it under their membership rules. There would be anarchy. Would the door be open for us to sue QPR for instance.

IMO it is no more than sabre rattling, and Gibson trying to look hard to pacify his own entitled fanbase who are fed up with Championship football and Warnock’s brand of entertainment. The bloke is an irrelevance and we should ignore him, rather than give him the time and profile he seeks.

[Carl Sagan]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

There is no point him trying to sue the club because if we are in Administration he would have nothing to gain. Even if he could prove a case - highly unlikely - and won, any award would rank as an unsecured creditor and get 2/3 of 3/4 of 5/8 of FA. If as part of Administration the club was bought, it would be bought by a different entity, and the entity to which Gibson would be suing would cease to exist.

If he should proceed with any case I cannot see the EFL would permit it under their membership rules. There would be anarchy. Would the door be open for us to sue QPR for instance.

IMO it is no more than sabre rattling, and Gibson trying to look hard to pacify his own entitled fanbase who are fed up with Championship football and Warnock’s brand of entertainment. The bloke is an irrelevance and we should ignore him, rather than give him the time and profile he seeks.

Yet according to @angieram the administrators have had to engage lawyers at present to fight the case, even though the legal action cannot be pursued during administration, because we need a clear slate to be able to come out of admin.

So Gibson is both adding additional costs to Derby during this time of dire peril, and by taking the action he is intentionally making it more difficult for Derby to exit administration. That sounds to me that he is pursuing a vendetta with the purpose of liquidating Derby County.

If you're waiting for the EFL to step in and help us, you're going to be waiting a long time. If they were minded to they could have done this already, but clearly have chosen not to act. Hence the administrators have had to act and take money out of the club instead.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Carl Sagan

[i-Ram]

45 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Yet according to @angieram the administrators have had to engage lawyers at present to fight the case, even though the legal action cannot be pursued during administration, because we need a clear slate to be able to come out of admin.

So Gibson is both adding additional costs to Derby during this time of dire peril, and by taking the action he is intentionally making it more difficult for Derby to exit administration. That sounds to me that he is pursuing a vendetta with the purpose of liquidating Derby County.

If you're waiting for the EFL to step in and help us, you're going to be waiting a long time. If they were minded to they could have done this already, but clearly have chosen not to act. Hence the administrators have had to act and take money out of the club instead.

I hear you Carl; you may be right, but I do wonder if this remains a spillover from late 2019/early 2020 when Middlesborough were trying to sue, or threatening to sue, if the EFL did not take action. It just hasn't gone away, mainly because no clearcut decision has yet been made by the EFL as to penalties, but again I really cannot see that they or their solicitors will engage at all whilst the club is in Administration, nor if the Club is sold. I am not debating though that Gibson is a Bamford. Thats a given.

[RadioactiveWaste]

It would be funny if Boro had to pay DCFC £150m in damages. Pay off our debts, but back pride park, and, fund a promotion chalenge or two.

 

[SSD]

What satisfaction is this guy getting from trying to harm the club. You made your point now leave it. Mel left, we're suffering the consequences. Concentrate on your own awfully ran club for a change.

[PistoldPete]

10 hours ago, i-Ram said:

There is no point him trying to sue the club because if we are in Administration he would have nothing to gain. Even if he could prove a case - highly unlikely - and won, any award would rank as an unsecured creditor and get 2/3 of 3/4 of 5/8 of FA. If as part of Administration the club was bought, it would be bought by a different entity, and the entity to which Gibson would be suing would cease to exist.

If he should proceed with any case I cannot see the EFL would permit it under their membership rules. There would be anarchy. Would the door be open for us to sue QPR for instance.

IMO it is no more than sabre rattling, and Gibson trying to look hard to pacify his own entitled fanbase who are fed up with Championship football and Warnock’s brand of entertainment. The bloke is an irrelevance and we should ignore him, rather than give him the time and profile he seeks.

I am not sure what Gibson's case is anyway. Originally it was something to do with the stadium, but that case was dismissed by EFL. Then he tried to tag onto the  EFL case and that was dismissed to.

If he thinks Mel paid us too much for the stadium where is the £81 million he (over) paid us? Maybe he could help the administrators try and find that extra money. 

 

[i-Ram]

18 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I am not sure what Gibson's case is anyway. Originally it was something to do with the stadium, but that case was dismissed by EFL. Then he tried to tag onto the  EFL case and that was dismissed to.

If he thinks Mel paid us too much for the stadium where is the £81 million he (over) paid us? Maybe he could help the administrators try and find that extra money. 

I think he was looking to find any reason he could to prove we were “gaming” FFP in 2018/2019, giving us unfair advantage, which ultimately meant his team were denied a play-off position by one point in the Lampard season. He certainly felt the Stadium deal was shady. Obviously not, but arguably he has an argument, now supported by Mel Morris’s own admission that FFP was still exceeded in 2018 even after the stadium sale ?  That is provable, but how he can prove that any overspend led to his team missing out on a playoff place is almost impossible I would say. Hence why I can’t see he will sue the Club, but he wants to keep that threat in the public eye for his fans, and to ensure the EFL don’t allow their foot to come off the Club’s throat. The bloke is a bamford, but no more than Morris. He is only doing what he thinks is best for his club.

Still waiting to learn how much of the £81m Morris has paid for the stadium. Little I suspect, but he might be arguing that he is due repayments on loans he made to the club during his tenure and there is an offset requirement. Who bloody knows though, other than the 3 wise Administrators. Doesn’t seem to me that any Supporters Group has had the answer to that question.

[i-Ram]

EFL RESPONSE TO RAMSTRUST

Currently Derby County is being threatened by Middlesbrough & Wycombe Wanderers for potential legal action over loss of revenue. These are currently fallacious as we cannot be sued whilst in Administration, but the principle is important. If these are allowed to continue then Derby (and every other Championship club) should sue QPR, Aston Villa, and every other club (virtually all of them) that has gained promotion through breaking Financial Fair Play or Profit & Sustainability Rules. The EFL needs to stop this happening between members.

It is an unfortunate reality that commercial disputes can and do arise, and football is no different. The EFL (in common with the FA and the Premier League) provides that any disputes between Member Clubs must be resolved by arbitration and the terms of the arbitration are as set out in our regulations. This does not mean the EFL is determining the outcome – all we provide is a framework. Arbitrations between Clubs are resolved by independent panels formed from specialist solicitors/barristers with experience in the relevant sector from a list maintained by Sports Resolutions. Each party can present their cases as they see fit and judgments will be issued. Any proceedings will remain private and confidential. It will be for the Administrators to conduct any defence of any claims brought against the Club. The EFL is not able to comment on any particular matter as we are not party to any such proceedings.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

32 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

EFL RESPONSE TO RAMSTRUST

Currently Derby County is being threatened by Middlesbrough & Wycombe Wanderers for potential legal action over loss of revenue. These are currently fallacious as we cannot be sued whilst in Administration, but the principle is important. If these are allowed to continue then Derby (and every other Championship club) should sue QPR, Aston Villa, and every other club (virtually all of them) that has gained promotion through breaking Financial Fair Play or Profit & Sustainability Rules. The EFL needs to stop this happening between members.

It is an unfortunate reality that commercial disputes can and do arise, and football is no different. The EFL (in common with the FA and the Premier League) provides that any disputes between Member Clubs must be resolved by arbitration and the terms of the arbitration are as set out in our regulations. This does not mean the EFL is determining the outcome – all we provide is a framework. Arbitrations between Clubs are resolved by independent panels formed from specialist solicitors/barristers with experience in the relevant sector from a list maintained by Sports Resolutions. Each party can present their cases as they see fit and judgments will be issued. Any proceedings will remain private and confidential. It will be for the Administrators to conduct any defence of any claims brought against the Club. The EFL is not able to comment on any particular matter as we are not party to any such proceedings.

So basically we can file our own proceedings, let's take all the f%*ers to court.

[RadioactiveWaste]

So it's essentally arbitration within the league framework not a case in a civil court?

The process is proably similar (lawyers, "judges" etc).

Sigh........

[irobinson]

17 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

Yet according to @angieram the administrators have had to engage lawyers at present to fight the case, even though the legal action cannot be pursued during administration, because we need a clear slate to be able to come out of admin.

So Gibson is both adding additional costs to Derby during this time of dire peril, and by taking the action he is intentionally making it more difficult for Derby to exit administration. That sounds to me that he is pursuing a vendetta with the purpose of liquidating Derby County.

If you're waiting for the EFL to step in and help us, you're going to be waiting a long time. If they were minded to they could have done this already, but clearly have chosen not to act. Hence the administrators have had to act and take money out of the club instead.

Just like everything else with lawyers…don’t do anything or spend any needless time and money on this….

We are in admin

no point with Gibson…just a sideshow from an irritating man 

 

 

[kevinhectoring]

On 25/09/2021 at 12:16, Bob The Badger said:

 

You cannot liquidate a company that is in administration.

 

That looks like an exam question in the  insolvency practitioners finals.  Discuss 

[PistoldPete]

10 hours ago, i-Ram said:

EFL RESPONSE TO RAMSTRUST

Currently Derby County is being threatened by Middlesbrough & Wycombe Wanderers for potential legal action over loss of revenue. These are currently fallacious as we cannot be sued whilst in Administration, but the principle is important. If these are allowed to continue then Derby (and every other Championship club) should sue QPR, Aston Villa, and every other club (virtually all of them) that has gained promotion through breaking Financial Fair Play or Profit & Sustainability Rules. The EFL needs to stop this happening between members.

It is an unfortunate reality that commercial disputes can and do arise, and football is no different. The EFL (in common with the FA and the Premier League) provides that any disputes between Member Clubs must be resolved by arbitration and the terms of the arbitration are as set out in our regulations. This does not mean the EFL is determining the outcome – all we provide is a framework. Arbitrations between Clubs are resolved by independent panels formed from specialist solicitors/barristers with experience in the relevant sector from a list maintained by Sports Resolutions. Each party can present their cases as they see fit and judgments will be issued. Any proceedings will remain private and confidential. It will be for the Administrators to conduct any defence of any claims brought against the Club. The EFL is not able to comment on any particular matter as we are not party to any such proceedings.

So are they saying it is still open to us to bring action against QPR or Aston Villa ? Through whatever mechanism they have in place?  

[i-Ram]

18 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

So are they saying it is still open to us to bring action against QPR or Aston Villa ? Through whatever mechanism they have in place?  

We might never know, but perhaps the very same internal EFL process that Gibson is pursuing, Morris did similarly a few years back when QPR got fined? I believe all they are saying is that member clubs can only pursue action against each other via the agreed mechanism, and not through external legal action.

[Sparkle]

I do think that this needs fully publishing for the whole football world to be aware of what is happening to show some Gibson types for what they are and to send a message to clubs like QPR that things may well come back to haunt you.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

16 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I do think that this needs fully publishing for the whole football world to be aware of what is happening to show some Gibson types for what they are and to send a message to clubs like QPR that things may well come back to haunt you.

Exactly, but where are the clued up investigative journalists when you want them?

[Crewton]

51 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

We might never know, but perhaps the very same internal EFL process that Gibson is pursuing, Morris did similarly a few years back when QPR got fined? I believe all they are saying is that member clubs can only pursue action against each other via the agreed mechanism, and not through external legal action.

Morris actually said he wouldn't pursue QPR for compensation, so never did. It's now 7 years on from THAT season, so I don't know if an attempt to pursue it now would be allowed. 

[Sparkle]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

Morris actually said he wouldn't pursue QPR for compensation, so never did. It's now 7 years on from THAT season, so I don't know if an attempt to pursue it now would be allowed. 

I wouldn’t suggest we did but the threat is more reasonable then again a new owner might actually consider it worthwhile.

we used to talk about football ! 

[drgoodspeak]