The latest from the club via Chris Coles

[Van der MoodHoover]

If we don't have reliable information on the creditors as we cannot see the full accounts then presumably the same scenario applies when Mel took over. 

So we're speculating about how something we don't know compares to another number we don't know from 6 or so years ago. 

I realise that I'm as much into fatuous time wasting activity as the next man, but I think I'll draw the line thanks..... 

[RAM1966]

17 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Since when has a Charges Register at Companies House told anyone the amount of debt? 

100% spot one, the charges remain an undisclosed mater between the 2 parties ?

[RAM1966]

39 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

I'm 99.9% certain as David said that what happens in the meeting tomorrow will be published as soon as possible.

Why do people on twitter keep assuming that everyone going tomorrow has to sign an NDA?

Maybe because there will be certain questions that are off the table, if not why is it not a proper fans forum.  People in these 'So called' privileged positions, will not want to be frozen out of potential future meetings (with Mel).  Therefor they will go along with it and try and to convince us they gave him a hard time, when its basically a hand packed forum!!!!!!

Edited August 3, 2021 by RAM1966

[Wolfie20]

1 minute ago, RAM1966 said:

Maybe because there will be certain questions that are off the table, if not why is it not a proper fans forum.  People in these 'So called' privileged positions will not want to be frozen out of potential future meetings with Mel so will go along with that and try and convince us they gave him a hard time when its basically a  hand packed forum full of yes men!!!!!!

Stop sulking just because you're not going.

[RAM1966]

40 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Think GOC will say all debts are Mels not the clubs 

I so hope you are right and if is the case I will post an personal apology to Mel on this forum, I bet you believe in pixies and fairies to though!  If by any chance the debts are Mels so will be the ground, so how are we better off? 

[Rampage]

Just wait to see what happens with signing players this week. All the rest of it cannot be deciphered by speculation.

[RadioactiveWaste]

10 minutes ago, RAM1966 said:

Maybe because there will be certain questions that are off the table, if not why is it not a proper fans forum.  People in these 'So called' privileged positions, will not want to be frozen out of potential future meetings (with Mel).  Therefor they will go along with it and try and to convince us they gave him a hard time, when its basically a hand packed forum!!!!!!

My speculation was it's either going to be a lot of "we can't tell you more because it's confiedential right now" answers or possibly "we could tell you, but you'd have to sign an NDA" answers. Mixed in with a lot of "we're working on that and hope to have it resolved in 48 hrs" can you tell us what's the state of play right now? "no"

[RAM1966]

19 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Stop sulking just because you're not going.

Not sulking at all, why would I be going?  Would I like to be invited, of course I would like any fan, but, why should I have any expectation, I rarely post on this message board, I jus think the the words 'selected' audience means a hand picked bunch to try and appease the fans.    

I think there are a lot of rose tinted spectacles that will end up being thrown just like the QPR shirts that were thrown down the stands after that 4 - zip drubbing we got that night!!!

I reiterate, why a select audience if they are happy to face the fans and answer questions, this is a bullshite controlled question and answer 'What Mel wants to' session only.

I will be amazed if there are any revelations that come out of the forum, I'm willing to predict now once you've been given an answer, you will not be allowed to come back on it.  I think its a fans appeasing exercise to stop Mel from getting crap from the crowd on Saturday, he will no doubt give a heart felt apology and how things have not worked out as he would of liked, queue (at that point) blaming it all on covid and loss of stadium revenue when we were deep in the poo already!!!!!

Edited August 3, 2021 by RAM1966

[RAM1966]

4 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

My speculation was it's either going to be a lot of "we can't tell you more because it's confiedential right now" answers or possibly "we could tell you, but you'd have to sign an NDA" answers. Mixed in with a lot of "we're working on that and hope to have it resolved in 48 hrs" can you tell us what's the state of play right now? "no"

Zero point in the forum then?

[RAM1966]

12 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Just wait to see what happens with signing players this week. All the rest of it cannot be deciphered by speculation.

Yeah Mel what a guy, how could one bloke make such a mess, maybe the signing are being delayed so when there are only a few 24 hrs before kick off we will be hailing it as a great success....

Edited August 3, 2021 by RAM1966

[kevinhectoring]

30 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Since when has a Charges Register at Companies House told anyone the amount of debt? 

Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn’t. The documents filed in this case are clearly written so as to disclose as little as possible. But there have been various reports on the amount of the MSD debt, we know the details of the stadium sale and the cross guarantee structure is a matter of public record (the charges register). And if you look at other threads there are some pretty detailed estimates of what the club losses have been since the stadium sale. So it’s not that hard to work out what the club’s balance sheet probably looks like. 
Suggestions that the club has net debt of 50m despite having sold the stadium don’t seem right at all. But as you and others are suggesting, we won’t know the position for sure until accounts are filed 
 

[Rampage]

7 minutes ago, RAM1966 said:

Yeah Mel what a guy, how could one bloke make such a mess, maybe the signing are being delayed so when there are only a few 24 hrs before kick off we will be hailing it as a great success....

As long as we get players, it will be an improvement on the present situation.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

I've got a novel idea.... Why don't we wait and see? 

[RadioactiveWaste]

9 minutes ago, RAM1966 said:

Zero point in the forum then?

Well it's more just a realistic expecation of what the club are going to be in a position to say in this meeting. It's better than nothing at all but I'm not getting my hopes up that we'll know a huge amount more or be massivly more confident in the direction things are going.

[RAM1966]

11 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn’t. The documents filed in this case are clearly written so as to disclose as little as possible. But there have been various reports on the amount of the MSD debt, we know the details of the stadium sale and the cross guarantee structure is a matter of public record (the charges register). And if you look at other threads there are some pretty detailed estimates of what the club losses have been since the stadium sale. So it’s not that hard to work out what the club’s balance sheet probably looks like. 
Suggestions that the club has net debt of 50m despite having sold the stadium don’t seem right at all. But as you and others are suggesting, we won’t know the position for sure until accounts are filed 
 

Lets wait and see where we are, but, where ever this debt/loss of club assets are, its going to be a horror show!  I think a lot of fans that are 'still' Pro - Mel are going to change their minds very quickly, when they realise that Mel bought the club with a £15M debt mortgage against the stadium.   We have since lost this £81.1M valued asset (3 years ago will of increased in value since).  For me that's a loss of £65M during his tenure without even looking at the outstanding debt. 

For me its not looking good even if there was zero debt, which we all know there is plenty of, I wonder if David Peace could do a "The Damned County" book of Mel's tenure!!!!    

Edited August 3, 2021 by RAM1966

[kevinhectoring]

6 minutes ago, RAM1966 said:

Lets wait and see where we are, but, where ever this debt/loss of club assets are, its going to be a horror show!  I think a lot of fans that are 'still' Pro - Mel are going to change their minds very quickly, when they realise that Mel bought the club with a £15M debt mortgage against the stadium.   We have since lost this £81.1M valued asset (3 years ago will of increased in value since).  For me that's a loss of £65M during his tenure without even looking at the outstanding debt. 

For me its not looking good even if there was zero debt, which we all know there is plenty of, I wonder if David Peace could do a "The Damned County" book of Mel's tenure!!!!    

Actually I don’t think the amount of debt matters that much. It just determines how much Mel can sell the club for. What matters is how much FFP headroom we have because (if we have a sale before Xmas) it will determine how much we can spend in the jan window 

[Ram1988]

I hope we get some answers tomorrow (if this is when the meeting is taking place). I'd like to know if we will be signing any players/the trailists ahead of Saturday in the short term and what his medium-long term vision for the club is if he can't get a new buyer.

[RAM1966]

2 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Actually I don’t think the amount of debt matters that much. It just determines how much Mel can sell the club for. What matters is how much FFP headroom we have because (if we have a sale before Xmas) it will determine how much we can spend in the jan window 

That is a very good point, FFP I believe is currently suspended, so not sure (Can anyone help), if they will start with a new 3 years cycle post covid or extend the current one or assess the covid losses?

FFP is clearly not fit for purpose, I think UEFA should look into a policy where physical debt less actual tangible assets such as stadium builds is not allowed.  So imagine a club has no debt, but has a ground as shitty as Forests, they should be allowed to build a 10,000 seater stadium (Obs half empty every week), under a long term mortgage and these payments should be factored into operating costs and a mortgage allowable within the rules.  At the end of the season the books must be balanced by the owner or the club faces sanctions, unless there is a mortgage on a new stadium training ground etc.

However, if you want to sign Smudge (sorry first Spanish name I could think of) from Barcelona for £200m the owner should physically pay that money in hard cash, through available cash in bank or a physical cash injection.  This would stop owners running up debts that are clearly unaffordable or repayable, it will hopefully bring down players ridiculous transfer fees and salaries.

Football once belonged to the working classes, football attendance and watching it on the TV has become unaffordable to a lot of people so greedy agents and players can amass ridiculous amounts of money! 

Finally there should be a public enquiry to this old boys club that runs football from the FA downwards and get some captains of industry in to make it efficient and profitable like any other business......

[RAM1966]

7 minutes ago, Ram1988 said:

I hope we get some answers tomorrow (if this is when the meeting is taking place). I'd like to know if we will be signing any players/the trailists ahead of Saturday in the short term and what his medium-long term vision for the club is if he can't get a new buyer.

This is what the club are hoping for, that you will be pleased just to get a few player in to approve the squad prior to Saturday.  What we should be more interested in is the bigger picture, funding to buy players, reassurances about administration, funds to play the players all season to avoid a 3 points penalty in an already impossible season to stay up.....

[Leeds Ram]

2 hours ago, RAM1966 said:

Not sulking at all, why would I be going?  Would I like to be invited, of course I would like any fan, but, why should I have any expectation, I rarely post on this message board, I jus think the the words 'selected' audience means a hand picked bunch to try and appease the fans.    

I think there are a lot of rose tinted spectacles that will end up being thrown just like the QPR shirts that were thrown down the stands after that 4 - zip drubbing we got that night!!!

I reiterate, why a select audience if they are happy to face the fans and answer questions, this is a bullshite controlled question and answer 'What Mel wants to' session only.

I will be amazed if there are any revelations that come out of the forum, I'm willing to predict now once you've been given an answer, you will not be allowed to come back on it.  I think its a fans appeasing exercise to stop Mel from getting crap from the crowd on Saturday, he will no doubt give a heart felt apology and how things have not worked out as he would of liked, queue (at that point) blaming it all on covid and loss of stadium revenue when we were deep in the poo already!!!!!

Let's wait and see what happens from the meeting. Personally, I don't see it like this. The club are using this meeting with representatives of the fan base to have what I'm sure is going to be a very difficult conversation about the current state of the club and what the future looks like. I think as a first step this is sensible, there is likelier to be cooler and calmer heads with a few people than a general Q and A in a pub just before the season starts. As the club is in such a mess and tempers as high amongst the fan base as I've known them opening up to a wider session just now likely would not get the answers we want and it could descend into an antagonistic shouting match.  

They in my opinion do need to follow this up with a revised strategy for fan communication as the silence from the club and its lack of operations in a wide range of areas really isn't good enough atm. I understand that the club faces numerous challenges but the last minute ticketing, silence on potential takeovers, rumours about if we can even sign players all give the feel of an organisation on its knees being run completely incompetently from top to bottom. The fact the opening game of the season is going to have a lot of empty seats is reflective of the challenge the club faces. The club are going to need to work hard to win back the trust of a lot of fans who rightly or wrongly are deciding not to give Derby anymore money. Hopefully this meeting is the beginning of that.