Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[AndyinLiverpool]

36 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Eh? By overpaying players in wages , the club has also been very generous to Hmrc. Until COVID, when they ran out of money to pay the HMRC… along with many other businesses.

HMRC's claim dates only from 2020?

Overpaying players is neither here nor there. They have not paid their tax bill. To us, the people of the UK. What would happen to you if you decided to indulge in something expensive rather than pay your tax?

[PistoldPete]

1 minute ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

HMRC's claim dates only from 2020?

Overpaying players is neither here nor there. They have not paid their tax bill. To us, the people of the UK. What would happen to you if you decided to indulge in something expensive rather than pay your tax?

I think if the debt is around £26 million and our wage bill is still around £30 million according to some reports . So Paye and ni for 18 months yes would be around £26 m… 

if the government told me I wasn’t allowed to go to work and earn money to pay their taxes yes I would be rather miffed if they still charged me tax .

[I know nuffin]

5 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I think if the debt is around £26 million and our wage bill is still around £30 million according to some reports . So Paye and ni for 18 months yes would be around £26 m… 

if the government told me I wasn’t allowed to go to work and earn money to pay their taxes yes I would be rather miffed if they still charged me tax .

Don't forget there will be VAT on sales including season tickets 

[atherstoneram]

7 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I think if the debt is around £26 million and our wage bill is still around £30 million according to some reports . So Paye and ni for 18 months yes would be around £26 m… 

if the government told me I wasn’t allowed to go to work and earn money to pay their taxes yes I would be rather miffed if they still charged me tax .

The government did tell you you weren't allowed to go to work that's why furlough was introduced.

[I know nuffin]

2 hours ago, Sheff Ram said:

While things remain positive on the pitch, for me, the worry of liquidation is still very real and much higher than the 5% that the Administrators put it at.

In a recent and credible report I've read, it puts an estimate for the funds needed to re-stabalise the club in the region of £70m-80m. A bit more detail on the liabilities:

1. around £27m to HMRC - will have to be paid in full and currently getting charged interest on

2. Circa £8m to "other" creditors (including Cocu) - would need to be paid 25p in the pound

3. the £100m in 'soft' loans to Morris associated with Pride Park. He's indicated he would be prepared to write these off, but it would still leave a £21m charge on PP to MSD Finance. Hence new owners will either have to pay rent for the ground or pay off the debt. Hence MSD are also in the equation if a successful purchase is to be achieved.

This puts the club's liabilities at around £50m. On top of that, new owners will need to inject money as "working capital" to keep the club running (hard to estimate but could be anywhere between £5m-£15m) and provide 2-years proof of funds to the EFL (circa £15m). Hence it is easy to see how this estimate of £60-80m has been arrived at.

A source in the article also suggests potential investors may wait until May next year once demotion has (most-likely) been confirmed but a deal really needs to be done sooner rather than later. They also think that at the EFL there is likely to be a real "concern" that the club could slip into liquidation.

Another source puts the "bare minimum" of buying the club out of administration to be £38m (excluding working capital and the ELF proof of funds requirement).

Sobering stuff.

Please quote your sources. These days some posters all over the place think because they post something it magically becomes true and somehow loose the ability to say where they get their information from. Untill I hear otherwise I am going with what the administrator says

[Woodley Ram]

9 minutes ago, I know nuffin said:

Don't forget there will be VAT on sales including season tickets 

you claim the VAT back

[Gringo]

7 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

you claim the VAT back

You don't claim VAT back on outputs i.e. sales, only on inputs i.e raw materials etc

[Sussex Ram]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

The thing is with Hmrc, if they liquidate the club that means no more Paye from players wages . Which makes no sense , and I as a taxpayer leave alone a Rams fan would not be happy with such a counterproductive stance.

If they liquidate the club, the players’ contracts assumedly get ripped up, they sign somewhere else, get paid roughly the same, and HMRC get their PAYE again.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Perhaps there should be an option to gift aid your match tickets?

[atherstoneram]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

The thing is with Hmrc, if they liquidate the club that means no more Paye from players wages . Which makes no sense , and I as a taxpayer leave alone a Rams fan would not be happy with such a counterproductive stance.

 As a taxpayer do you think the stance of allowing a tax bill of £26m to accrue is acceptable

[AndyinLiverpool]

59 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I think if the debt is around £26 million and our wage bill is still around £30 million according to some reports . So Paye and ni for 18 months yes would be around £26 m… 

if the government told me I wasn’t allowed to go to work and earn money to pay their taxes yes I would be rather miffed if they still charged me tax .

So even if it was only last year (and I doubt it), why are the club signing players like Jozwiak rather than paying what they owe the country?

[Woodley Ram]

1 hour ago, Charlotte Ram said:

You don't claim VAT back on outputs i.e. sales, only on inputs i.e raw materials etc

good point and I am VAT registered, mine generally nets off, but I could see how theirs dosnt . I put all of mine in premium bonds and earn some winnings before my VAT return

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

So even if it was only last year (and I doubt it), why are the club signing players like Jozwiak rather than paying what they owe the country?

They made a profit on transfer dealings I believe in 2020/1 .  Probably didn’t think the stadium would be shut for 15 months. If jozwiak hadn’t got fouled in the penalty box against wendies we would be in league one already and We would have lost more than his transfer fee.

[atherstoneram]

7 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

They made a profit on transfer dealings I believe in 2020/1 .  Probably didn’t think the stadium would be shut for 15 months. If jozwiak hadn’t got fouled in the penalty box against wendies we would be in league one already and We would have lost more than his transfer fee.

The ground may have been shut for 15 months but money was still coming in via the season tickets from those that didn't request a refund and also from Ramstv. It just happened to be Joz that got fouled,it could have been any one of the players, by saying he got fouled is a feeble excuse.

[PistoldPete]

2 hours ago, atherstoneram said:

The government did tell you you weren't allowed to go to work that's why furlough was introduced.

So the Government compensated people who couldn’t earn anything. Why didn’t they compensate Derby for their loss of income due to protecting the NHS and banning football crowds ?

[Sparkle]

3 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

The thing is with Hmrc, if they liquidate the club that means no more Paye from players wages . Which makes no sense , and I as a taxpayer leave alone a Rams fan would not be happy with such a counterproductive stance.

I would have commence with tax avoidance of my own which is perfectly legal and something I haven’t used to its maximum potential so at least the HMRC will lose more money if they dare to annoy me so HMRC be warned! 

[PistoldPete]

35 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

The ground may have been shut for 15 months but money was still coming in via the season tickets from those that didn't request a refund and also from Ramstv. It just happened to be Joz that got fouled,it could have been any one of the players, by saying he got fouled is a feeble excuse.

Obviously just using that as an example. We sold loads of players in 2020:1 if we had sold any more or not brought in replacements we would have been relegated. 

[PistoldPete]

2 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

So even if it was only last year (and I doubt it), why are the club signing players like Jozwiak rather than paying what they owe the country?

Derby shut their ground for 15 months which cost them £20 million. To protect the NHS. They don’t owe the country anything.

[Sparkle]

5 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Obviously just using that as an example. We sold loads of players in 2020:1 if we had sold any more or not brought in replacements we would have been relegated. 

I never understood why we paid those transfer fees for both Bielik  and Jozwiak because at both points it was clear we needed to cut back strongly yet the fees for both were large - we absolutely could have made money on both of them but the timing seemed so wrong.

[atherstoneram]

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

So the Government compensated people who couldn’t earn anything. Why didn’t they compensate Derby for their loss of income due to protecting the NHS and banning football crowds ?

I suggest you contact your MP for the answer to your question but i think it was mentioned that sport came a long way down the list when asking for financial support