Norman Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 Over 81.5 percent of the UK who are over 12 have had two doses of the vaccines. Over half have had the booster too. Yet we see record cases and huge numbers of infections. I think it's time the media dropped terms such as 'fully vaccinated'. The numbers make a mockery of any Covid passport too. Andrew3000 and Archied 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: You seem to have stopped your quote half way through... 'But those who are not double-jabbed will still have to isolate for the full 10 days if they are a close contact of a positive case, as is currently the case.' OK, I didn't spot that bit. I hope there's a good reason for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Norman said: Over 81.5 percent of the UK who are over 12 have had two doses of the vaccines. Over half have had the booster too. Yet we see record cases and huge numbers of infections. I think it's time the media dropped terms such as 'fully vaccinated'. The numbers make a mockery of any Covid passport too. Israel moving on to 4th jab aren't they, soon even the boosted won't be 'fully vaccinated'. Norman and therealhantsram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: On today's Covid bingo its the number 7. That's right folks, we are cutting the self isolation period from 10 to 7 days...but only if you're double jabbed of course. Join us again tomorrow for the next instalment of Covid bingo. Line! Oh sorry, it's just talcum powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 14 minutes ago, Wolfie said: OK, I didn't spot that bit. I hope there's a good reason for that. I stopped believing that there were good reasons behind their decisions when they introduced the rule of only having alcohol with a substantial meal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Israel moving on to 4th jab aren't they, soon even the boosted won't be 'fully vaccinated'. I should imagine that there will be vaccines under development that 'target' mutations as opposed to just the original. Like each year, the 'flu vaccine is slightly different to previous ones. Edited December 22, 2021 by Eddie therealhantsram and Bob The Badger 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 30 minutes ago, Eddie said: Line! Oh sorry, it's just talcum powder. All the same ,Talcum powder is not to be sniffed at Comrade 86, cstand, Eddie and 1 other 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 29 minutes ago, Eddie said: I should imagine that there will be vaccines under development that 'target' mutations as opposed to just the original. Like each year, the 'flu vaccine is slightly different to previous ones. So at what point do you become fully vaccinated? Will the NHS sack its workers if they dont have a jab every year? Andrew3000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 I was just listening to a lady on Adrian Chiles phone in on 5live who has given birth to twins. She has covid and having to isolate from her husband and one baby who is underweight and still in hospital. She said the maternity ward would normally have 35 staff on and 11 were off with Covid and it was utterly overwhelmed. People taking digs at the vaccine and mask wearing will stop the instant a loved one either dies or gets seriously ill because because the hospital treatment they desperately needed was delayed, or simply didn't happen through a sheer lack of staff. The idea of just letting it rip as was suggested on here a couple of days ago to much applause is ridiculous and so ill-informed as to be almost comical. If you do that you will see more and more medical staff get sick and it will domino out of control. It won't be omicron killing people (I think it's fairly clear that is much less virulent than Delta) but a lack of care for people with other medical conditions. The conversation that the NHS should be able to handle a 5% increase is worth having (Tory austerity measures and Brexit anybody can and should be discussed), but no health service could manage a 5% increase that AND staff dropping like flies at the same time. The powers that be know what could happen which is why you have left and right wing governments acting in much the same way the world over. I despise Johnson with a passion, but I doubt there's anything he wants to do less than impose more control in the same way as Sturgeon didn't want to, but did anyway. People who think this is about Governments wanting more control need to step away from their tin hats and go and read from all sources rather than relentlessly posting tweets from one guy on Twitter and unreliable sources whilst moaning about the BBC being unbiased. And on that point, I've been listening carefully this week. Every frickin debate is balanced. EVERY one. that I have listened to. YES, you can tell what some people think. Nicky Campbell is clearly in favour of vaccines and mask wearing as is the Tony Livesey and Adrian Chiles, but that\'s not the point. They all give air time to all views and don't force the conversation. To deny that like the idiot who wrote that spurious and (amazingly) anonymous Spectator article is to be either in utter denial, or simply working to an agenda. RoyMac5, angieram, cstand and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said: I was just listening to a lady on Adrian Chiles phone in on 5live who has given birth to twins. She has covid and having to isolate from her husband and one baby who is underweight and still in hospital. She said the maternity ward would normally have 35 staff on and 11 were off with Covid and it was utterly overwhelmed. People taking digs at the vaccine and mask wearing will stop the instant a loved one either dies or gets seriously ill because because the hospital treatment they desperately needed was delayed, or simply didn't happen through a sheer lack of staff. The idea of just letting it rip as was suggested on here a couple of days ago to much applause is ridiculous and so ill-informed as to be almost comical. If you do that you will see more and more medical staff get sick and it will domino out of control. It won't be omicron killing people (I think it's fairly clear that is much less virulent than Delta) but a lack of care for people with other medical conditions. The conversation that the NHS should be able to handle a 5% increase is worth having (Tory austerity measures and Brexit anybody can and should be discussed), but no health service could manage a 5% increase that AND staff dropping like flies at the same time. The powers that be know what could happen which is why you have left and right wing governments acting in much the same way the world over. I despise Johnson with a passion, but I doubt there's anything he wants to do less than impose more control in the same way as Sturgeon didn't want to, but did anyway. People who think this is about Governments wanting more control need to step away from their tin hats and go and read from all sources rather than relentlessly posting tweets from one guy on Twitter and unreliable sources whilst moaning about the BBC being unbiased. And on that point, I've been listening carefully this week. Every frickin debate is balanced. EVERY one. that I have listened to. YES, you can tell what some people think. Nicky Campbell is clearly in favour of vaccines and mask wearing as is the Tony Livesey and Adrian Chiles, but that\'s not the point. They all give air time to all views and don't force the conversation. To deny that like the idiot who wrote that spurious and (amazingly) anonymous Spectator article is to be either in utter denial, or simply working to an agenda. Or we could decide not to fire 60,000 health workers who have made a decision not to take the vaccine which I completely respect is their right. Or we could say to NHS staff they don’t need to isolate/not go to work if a close contact is positive, instead ask them to conduct a daily test before their shift? For me it’s the quite ridiculous decisions by Government that cause the problems. maxjam, ramit, Archied and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 13 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said: I was just listening to a lady on Adrian Chiles phone in on 5live who has given birth to twins. She has covid and having to isolate from her husband and one baby who is underweight and still in hospital. She said the maternity ward would normally have 35 staff on and 11 were off with Covid and it was utterly overwhelmed. People taking digs at the vaccine and mask wearing will stop the instant a loved one either dies or gets seriously ill because because the hospital treatment they desperately needed was delayed, or simply didn't happen through a sheer lack of staff. The idea of just letting it rip as was suggested on here a couple of days ago to much applause is ridiculous and so ill-informed as to be almost comical. If you do that you will see more and more medical staff get sick and it will domino out of control. It won't be omicron killing people (I think it's fairly clear that is much less virulent than Delta) but a lack of care for people with other medical conditions. The conversation that the NHS should be able to handle a 5% increase is worth having (Tory austerity measures and Brexit anybody can and should be discussed), but no health service could manage a 5% increase that AND staff dropping like flies at the same time. The powers that be know what could happen which is why you have left and right wing governments acting in much the same way the world over. I despise Johnson with a passion, but I doubt there's anything he wants to do less than impose more control in the same way as Sturgeon didn't want to, but did anyway. People who think this is about Governments wanting more control need to step away from their tin hats and go and read from all sources rather than relentlessly posting tweets from one guy on Twitter and unreliable sources whilst moaning about the BBC being unbiased. And on that point, I've been listening carefully this week. Every frickin debate is balanced. EVERY one. that I have listened to. YES, you can tell what some people think. Nicky Campbell is clearly in favour of vaccines and mask wearing as is the Tony Livesey and Adrian Chiles, but that\'s not the point. They all give air time to all views and don't force the conversation. To deny that like the idiot who wrote that spurious and (amazingly) anonymous Spectator article is to be either in utter denial, or simply working to an agenda. Your the Archbishop of Canterbury and I claim my 5 pounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: So at what point do you become fully vaccinated? Will the NHS sack its workers if they dont have a jab every year? When are people fully vaccinated against flu?. Viruses mutate and protection wanes over time. 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Israel moving on to 4th jab aren't they, soon even the boosted won't be 'fully vaccinated'. I think their issue is that they did booster jabs first, so their protection is waning earlier than everyone else and might not see them through the winter - though not sure what effect the winter has in Israel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 14 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said: I was just listening to a lady on Adrian Chiles phone in on 5live who has given birth to twins. She has covid and having to isolate from her husband and one baby who is underweight and still in hospital. She said the maternity ward would normally have 35 staff on and 11 were off with Covid and it was utterly overwhelmed. People taking digs at the vaccine and mask wearing will stop the instant a loved one either dies or gets seriously ill because because the hospital treatment they desperately needed was delayed, or simply didn't happen through a sheer lack of staff. The idea of just letting it rip as was suggested on here a couple of days ago to much applause is ridiculous and so ill-informed as to be almost comical. If you do that you will see more and more medical staff get sick and it will domino out of control. It won't be omicron killing people (I think it's fairly clear that is much less virulent than Delta) but a lack of care for people with other medical conditions. The conversation that the NHS should be able to handle a 5% increase is worth having (Tory austerity measures and Brexit anybody can and should be discussed), but no health service could manage a 5% increase that AND staff dropping like flies at the same time. The powers that be know what could happen which is why you have left and right wing governments acting in much the same way the world over. I despise Johnson with a passion, but I doubt there's anything he wants to do less than impose more control in the same way as Sturgeon didn't want to, but did anyway. People who think this is about Governments wanting more control need to step away from their tin hats and go and read from all sources rather than relentlessly posting tweets from one guy on Twitter and unreliable sources whilst moaning about the BBC being unbiased. And on that point, I've been listening carefully this week. Every frickin debate is balanced. EVERY one. that I have listened to. YES, you can tell what some people think. Nicky Campbell is clearly in favour of vaccines and mask wearing as is the Tony Livesey and Adrian Chiles, but that\'s not the point. They all give air time to all views and don't force the conversation. To deny that like the idiot who wrote that spurious and (amazingly) anonymous Spectator article is to be either in utter denial, or simply working to an agenda. So whats the alternative then? Covid will continue to mutate, more than likely requiring a yearly booster as we have for flu. The vaccine doesn't stop you from catching it or transmitting it therefore we are always going to suffer from 'pingdemic'. At what point do we just agree that we vaccinate to protect ourselves and allow the asymptomatic and those with a sniffle to carry on working as we did pre-covid? We could hit 100% vaccine coverage and give out 100% boosters every single year but this is not going away now - under current guidelines that means living under the threat of the Govt imposing restrictions every winter and the NHS (and the country at large) grinding to a standstill every year. Archied and Norman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: So at what point do you become fully vaccinated? Will the NHS sack its workers if they dont have a jab every year? No idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: I stopped believing that there were good reasons behind their decisions when they introduced the rule of only having alcohol with a substantial meal... Someone must be able to dig out some stats to show that beer and chips results in more infections than wine and scallops. And vice versa. Archied, i-Ram and G STAR RAM 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 22 minutes ago, Wolfie said: When are people fully vaccinated against flu?. Viruses mutate and protection wanes over time. I think their issue is that they did booster jabs first, so their protection is waning earlier than everyone else and might not see them through the winter - though not sure what effect the winter has in Israel! As I am sure you are aware, I'm far from an expert in this field...but someone who works for the NHS said 3 is the magic number and it is the 3rd jab that will give you maximum protection from viruses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Someone must be able to dig out some stats to show that beer and chips results in more infections than wine and scallops. And vice versa. My understanding is that whether they are being consumed at a party or just a gathering after a hard days work also need factoring into the modelling. EtoileSportiveDeDerby, Chester40 and ariotofmyown 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketteringram Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Israel moving on to 4th jab aren't they, soon even the boosted won't be 'fully vaccinated'. ramit and Premier ram 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 36 minutes ago, maxjam said: So whats the alternative then? Covid will continue to mutate, more than likely requiring a yearly booster as we have for flu. The vaccine doesn't stop you from catching it or transmitting it therefore we are always going to suffer from 'pingdemic'. At what point do we just agree that we vaccinate to protect ourselves and allow the asymptomatic and those with a sniffle to carry on working as we did pre-covid? We could hit 100% vaccine coverage and give out 100% boosters every single year but this is not going away now - under current guidelines that means living under the threat of the Govt imposing restrictions every winter and the NHS (and the country at large) grinding to a standstill every year. You describe the point at which the virus becomes endemic - which is what the scientists expect to happen. Some say it could happen by next winter, but there are lots of factors. https://www.news-medical.net/news/20211221/Stabilizing-the-long-term-endemic-behavior-of-COVID-19.aspx Quote Overall, the study results suggest that the evolution of SARS-CoV-2 and the nature of waning immunity will shape the relationships between infections, reported cases, and hospitalizations. The attainment of the endemic mode without risking a resurgence of COVID-19 cases is possible if restrictions are gradually lifted, vaccine coverage is maximized, and VOCs are quickly detected. In the absence of carefully planned interventions, COVID-19 may continue to cause considerable public health disruption for several years to come. Which is why - right now the anti-vaxxers and the people who oppose restrictions are actually the biggest threat to this whole pooshow dragging on even longer. ramit, Wolfie, Archied and 1 other 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 14 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: You describe the point at which the virus becomes endemic - which is what the scientists expect to happen. Some say it could happen by next winter, but there are lots of factors. I know... The point was regardless of what we do in the meantime this is now the new normal no matter how many people are vaccinated/boosted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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