v Stoke City (H) - Matchday Thread

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Thought it looked poor too. Is the new-style 'woven pitch' more costly to maintain?

May be but given that woven part is a man made fabric you would think that it is not as costly as real grass to keep in good nick over winter months. More likely to be those massive lamps they use to keep it warm and green as well as fertilisers etc

 

[Rampage]

Only Coventry and Rams unbeaten in five or six games in this league. Some consolation. Avoiding defeat against Swansea would be a real indication of progress. 

[Rammy03]

18 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Only Coventry and Rams unbeaten in five or six games in this league. Some consolation. Avoiding defeat against Swansea would be a real indication of progress. 

I think we need to go out and win this one. We've just played out two drab 0-0 draws against sides who will be up and around it in may. The defence is solid enough. It's time to show we can score goals. Win the game on Wednesday.

[wollatonram]

18 hours ago, brady1993 said:

Buchanan and Knight have been arguably our best players this season. Bird was revolutionary last year and Sibley was phenomenal when he came into the team last year. 

The academy is where the actual talent lies for the mos part in the squad.

yes, thats why I said half.

and Sibley / bird will be a phenomenal footballers but not now, that is what the loan market is for.

[jono]

20 hours ago, Coconut said:

In a VAR led game it's 90, 95%  a penalty

Doesn't get anywhere near the ball knocks Buchanan off his feet.

It's ludicrous to even think Buchanan could have been sent off from the incident.

It's exactly the sort of thing we've had go against but not for us this season. The idea that decisions even themselves out is such a load of poo unless we get 3-5 massive decisions in outrfavour in crucial games later down the line.

Buchanan himself will feel massively aggrieved considering the penalty given against him by some bloody dufus earlier in the season.

I guess you’re right because of the way the game is played but i absolutely loath this “there was contact and he went down” .. you were fouled or not ? you were fouled badly enough to make you fall ? .. my old fashioned musings are : 

1) players seek an advantage .. sometimes fairly sometimes not

2) even though they all do it does it make it right, fair, sportsmanlike ? 

3) it was always thus .. Frannie Lee anyone ? ... an artist 

4) refs are human .. they get conned 

5) if you’ve been fouled is it acceptable to exaggerate so the ref notices ? 

It is not the penalty shouts, dives calls that me , it’s the clutched faces trying to get your opponent booked or sent off .. that isn’t gamesmanship or seeking an advantage .. it’s lying. Fetch my pitchfork, Burn them at the stake I say 
 

 

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

6 hours ago, jono said:

I guess you’re right because of the way the game is played but i absolutely loath this “there was contact and he went down” .. you were fouled or not ? you were fouled badly enough to make you fall ? .. my old fashioned musings are : 

1) players seek an advantage .. sometimes fairly sometimes not

2) even though they all do it does it make it right, fair, sportsmanlike ? 

3) it was always thus .. Frannie Lee anyone ? ... an artist 

4) refs are human .. they get conned 

5) if you’ve been fouled is it acceptable to exaggerate so the ref notices ? 

It is not the penalty shouts, dives calls that me , it’s the clutched faces trying to get your opponent booked or sent off .. that isn’t gamesmanship or seeking an advantage .. it’s lying. Fetch my pitchfork, Burn them at the stake I say 
 

 

I openly encourage diving, gotta do what you gotta do 

[jono]

5 hours ago, JustOneBiblicalKazim said:

I openly encourage diving, gotta do what you gotta do 

We see things in different ways. For me it’s the same as selling dodgy pensions, flogging time share , the “friendly” blokes that  have some tarmac left over and offer to do your drive. 

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, jono said:

We see things in different ways. For me it’s the same as selling dodgy pensions, flogging time share , the “friendly” blokes that  have some tarmac left over and offer to do your drive. 

I'm with you there buddy. Annoys the hell out of me when we get cheated but I'd sooner us lose playing the right way, than win the wrong way. If you get cleaned out then you're entitled to go down, but out and out simulation is strictly for Bamfords like Bamford. 

 

[Stockport Ram]

It is cheating. Pure and simple.

[RoyMac5]

On 12/12/2020 at 18:41, Dcfcsr92 said:

Yes i know he's been ill but when the assistant coach is saying he's fit, he's fit

Just to reclarify this about Ibe, from Rooney today's presser:

"He was on the bench (at Millwall and at Brentford) if needed rather than can we get him on the pitch. He has trained really well, his fitness is returning and now the next step is getting minutes on the pitch.

"I am pleased for him to get on, it is a good step, Hopefully he can get more minutes, but he is not ready to start a game yet."

[SKRam]

On 12/12/2020 at 22:26, DavesaRam said:

If we were in a rich vein of form, playing to what we are capable of, then today we threw away two points. The truth is that 6 matches ago we couldn't even pass the ball to our own players, couldn't defend for toffee and seemed to have an aversion for the opposition's half of the pitch, so to do what we have so far under Rooney is actually pretty good. For both season-starts under Cocu many of us said that if we saw progress being made, we wold be happy.

SO: Question: Are we happy?

We are much more solid in defence, and I don't have heart palpitations every time we have to defend a corner or free-kick, and our midfield have remembered how to move the ball forwards with intent. The main differences are that when we get the ball, passing it backwards or sideways isn't the first choice. Now, when we do go to the side or backwards, it is because of patient build up, rather than not having a clue what else to do, and although we could do better, we are starting to get players wanting to get into the area in the hope of the ball getting there, instead of trying to get there once the ball has already arrived.

It might be worth remembering that this squad of players have had a season and a half of Cocu's "watch out, they might shout "Boo" at you" ingrained into them, and it doesn't disappeared over night, although a fairly good vanishing trick has already been performed. This might be why Max Bird isn't reaching the heights of his early performances, and for which he has been pilloried on here. Someone has likened him to "Butterfield Light", but Butterfield was actually a good player for us until Clement climbed inside his head, and he never recovered.

The Rams TV voices thought that Lawrence looked better on the right than on the left, which was true, but sadly Tom never recovered from the clash of ankles in an early attack. I have to admit, often when he gets a clattering he disappears out of the game, but kept on going for quite some time, and clearly didn't want to go off. I wasn't able to watch Wednesday's match, but it seems that Beilik is becoming a bit of a monster for us in midfield, with influence increasing all the time. I don't think that Sibley should have come on in place of Whittaker, because he should already have been on. Why he isn't getting starts, I don't known, because he brings a whole chunk of influence when he finally does get on, and only bringing Ibe on for 5 minutes was, wuite frankly, silly. I am also baffled why we insist on having two defensive midfielders on at all times. So far, I haven't seen a team we couldn't have beaten, with some teams absoutley sitting ducks, but we keep on setting the team up in fear of the opposition. Com on Wayne, we shojld be causing them to make a mess in their shorts, not the other way round. Let's grasp the nettle and set the team up to have a real go! Beilik as the sole DM will allow us to go 4-3-3, and suddenly we have numbers in midfield, and the chance to overload the opposition penalty area. Come on, it's worth a punt.

So despite dropping a load of points, I am happy simply because we are making progress, and despite being where we are because we should be, we have enough in the squad to more than get out of the relegation zone.

That sir is ducking perfect and saves me tapping many keys 

[jono]

11 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

I'm with you there buddy. Annoys the hell out of me when we get cheated but I'd sooner us lose playing the right way, than win the wrong way. If you get cleaned out then you're entitled to go down, but out and out simulation is strictly for Bamfords like Bamford. 

 

Amazing some of those ! Honestly mate .. I hate it, deep deep down in my core. 
 

yes, I suppose there is a case for making sure the ref saw it .. but there has to be an “it” in the first place. ..Mixed emotions from me - if one of theirs does it I am angry if one of ours does it I am ashamed and embarrassed. 

I do t suppose in our over sensitive world I can say this with impunity .. but it’s a mans game .. real men don’t do that 
 

It isn’t clever, it’s not “savvy” 

[Dcfcsr92]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Just to reclarify this about Ibe, from Rooney today's presser:

"He was on the bench (at Millwall and at Brentford) if needed rather than can we get him on the pitch. He has trained really well, his fitness is returning and now the next step is getting minutes on the pitch.

"I am pleased for him to get on, it is a good step, Hopefully he can get more minutes, but he is not ready to start a game yet."

What's the point tho, if needed that means he's fit enough to come on, or if not there putting ibes health/fitness at risk! By concidering bringing him on when not ready! It makes no sense! He could of got minutes in the under 23s and been more 'match fit' 

[Comrade 86]

6 minutes ago, jono said:

Amazing some of those ! Honestly mate .. I hate it, deep deep down in my core. 
 

yes, I suppose there is a case for making sure the ref saw it .. but there has to be an “it” in the first place. ..Mixed emotions from me - if one of theirs does it I am angry if one of ours does it I am ashamed and embarrassed. 

I do t suppose in our over sensitive world I can say this with impunity .. but it’s a mans game .. real men don’t do that 
 

It isn’t clever, it’s not “savvy” 

Remember getting absolutely torn one by a coach as a nipper for trying to stay on my feet. For me he kinda nailed it, words to the effect of 'when it's that ducking obvious son, ducking go down'. I quizzed him and he said, 'no, I'm not asking you to cheat. I see you dive you'll never play for me again, but if they kick you like that then you've earned it'. He was an ex Baggies midfielder who had his knee bent backwards so ended up coaching kids instead. He was hard on me but I understood why and his ethos has stuck with me to this day.

As for the video, there's players like Figo, Robben and Ronaldo in there if I uploaded the right one. It's probably silly but for me you can't be a truly great player and cheat. Messi gets gets kicked from pillar to post but nearly always stays on his feet. The other stuff is shameless and to be honest, ducking embarrassing. Some will highlight Chrissie Martin but he played cute rather than being an outright diver. For me there's a massive difference. 

A last thought is around it being 'a man's game'. Nothing wrong with the notion even if some would say otherwise. There is an unmistakable irony though as there's nearly no diving, least that I've seen, in the women's game, though I concede as their profile lifts, that may change. Perhaps you and I are just old-fashioned mate, but in our defence, there's worse things to be! 

[jono]

@86 Schmokes & a Pancake.. great post .. and your former coach has a point .. meet fire with fire. It’s tough to argue that one. 

I accept that there are times when stuff happens on the field of play, in the heat of battle. I think we are of the same mind. 
 

it’s the snidely ones that get me .. no just cause, just folk with a “Samuel Henry Irvine Taylor* “ attitude to their opponents and the meaning of the game and sport in general. 
 

* credit to an old maths teacher: Lt commander WR Carter RN Red. also famous in my life for such pearls of wisdom as ... “any more brains and you’d be a half wit” and “I am confiscating this lighter because there are no gas stoves at school so clearly you have ne reason to have a dangerous inflammatory device”  and “a line is a ruled extension of a dot” 

 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

2 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Remember getting absolutely torn one by a coach as a nipper for trying to stay on my feet. For me he kinda nailed it, words to the effect of 'when it's that ducking obvious son, ducking go down'. I quizzed him and he said, 'no, I'm not asking you to cheat. I see you dive you'll never play for me again, but if they kick you like that then you've earned it'. He was an ex Baggies midfielder who had his knee bent backwards so ended up coaching kids instead. He was hard on me but I understood why and his ethos has stuck with me to this day.

As for the video, there's players like Figo, Robben and Ronaldo in there if I uploaded the right one. It's probably silly but for me you can't be a truly great player and cheat. Messi gets gets kicked from pillar to post but nearly always stays on his feet. The other stuff is shameless and to be honest, ducking embarrassing. Some will highlight Chrissie Martin but he played cute rather than being an outright diver. For me there's a massive difference. 

A last thought is around it being 'a man's game'. Nothing wrong with the notion even if some would say otherwise. There is an unmistakable irony though as there's nearly no diving, least that I've seen, in the women's game, though I concede as their profile lifts, that may change. Perhaps you and I are just old-fashioned mate, but in our defence, there's worse things to be! 

Think the worst showing of diving for penaltys was Suarez for Barcelona in that semi final of the champions league a few years back where they had to overturn a 4 goal deficit . Ref gave them 3 I think . All horrific dives.  Domestically, you'd struggle to find a worse diving poohouse than Harry Kewell. Biggest cheat in the last 25 years. King dick of the theatrical collapse.

[rynny]

11 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Domestically, you'd struggle to find a worse diving poohouse than Harry Kewell. Biggest cheat in the last 25 years. King dick of the theatrical collapse.

Mo Salah.

[Van der MoodHoover]

After watching a bit of wolves v Chelsea, how that Neto didn't get booked for diving I don't know. 

[IlsonDerby]

On 12/12/2020 at 19:20, Spanish said:

B4 take off dcfc glasses not a pen.  If the reverse was to happen you would have been screaming your head off that it wasn’t a pen

Keith Hackett said it was a clear penalty on sports scene phone in to be fair. It’s soft but if you’re clumsy in the area and the player goes down you give the ref a decision to make.