Abu Derby County

[Gringo]

23 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

Ridiculous statement. Either the pound strengthens or weakens. You’re not actually stating which. So potentially doing nothings costs ? 

If the deal was going ahead the money in the agreed currency should have been placed in ESCROW some time ago. 

[Topram]

2 minutes ago, Asheville Ram said:

If the deal was going ahead the money in the agreed currency should have been placed in ESCROW some time ago. 

How do we know it isn’t? 

[kevinhectoring]

10 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

If the EFL successfully appeal that would result in about a £15m swing in net amortisation/profit. Our P&S for the 3 years to 2018 gave us a £17.5m margin against the limit. It means we'll be close, but it's more than enough to cover for my own margin of error on the amortisation.

The knock on effect means we would fail the period running to 2019 but only by a small amount. This would have to go through as a new charge for failing P&S as it is a separate period to the one currently going through the appeal.

In my opinion, the realistic worst case scenario is a fine for not disclosing the policy adequately enough in the accounts.

this all makes sense BUT look at it from the Sheikh's point of view:

we've pissed off the regulator

we've been found guilty of filing accounts that don't comply with the requirements of the companies act

there is an appeal that could be successful and  show breach of FFP rules to 2019

Sheikh's advisers will be telling him: if the appeal is lost the EFL might say: FFP breach  plus accounting misfeasance is worthy of a large fine and/or a points deduction.  His advisers will be conservative in assessing the risk

This is why BarryB's report that 'the deal is done but won't be signed until the appeal is heard' has a ring of truth. Perhaps some of the terms turn on the result of the appeal...

Someone already asked: Anyone know when the appeal will be heard? 

[Rev]

2 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

we've been found guilty of filing accounts that don't comply with the requirements of the companies act

Categorically not the case.

[kevinhectoring]

3 minutes ago, Rev said:

Categorically not the case.

but is that not the effect of this finding ?

e) The fifth Particular of the Second Charge is proven on the basis that, following the change to the Club’s approach to amortisation of the capitalised costs of player registrations at the end of the financial year ended 30 June 2015, the Club’s annual financial statements for the years ended 30 June 2016, 30 June 2017 and 30 June 2018 failed to adequately disclose those changes to its accounting policies and/or estimates as required by section 10 of FRS 102.

[Van der MoodHoover]

11 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

but is that not the effect of this finding ?

e) The fifth Particular of the Second Charge is proven on the basis that, following the change to the Club’s approach to amortisation of the capitalised costs of player registrations at the end of the financial year ended 30 June 2015, the Club’s annual financial statements for the years ended 30 June 2016, 30 June 2017 and 30 June 2018 failed to adequately disclose those changes to its accounting policies and/or estimates as required by section 10 of FRS 102.

FRS are not "law" they are regulatory standards set by the Financial Reporting Council who amend, refine and police them. Any shortfall against them is subject to their procedures rather than being a breach of the law as such. 

[Rev]

13 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

but is that not the effect of this finding ?

e) The fifth Particular of the Second Charge is proven on the basis that, following the change to the Club’s approach to amortisation of the capitalised costs of player registrations at the end of the financial year ended 30 June 2015, the Club’s annual financial statements for the years ended 30 June 2016, 30 June 2017 and 30 June 2018 failed to adequately disclose those changes to its accounting policies and/or estimates as required by section 10 of FRS 102.

I'll look at it in depth tomorrow,but as I understand it we changed our policy to better reflect the requirements of the new accounting regs, and didn't make that totally clear in our annual reports.

[kevinhectoring]

6 minutes ago, Rev said:

I'll look at it in depth tomorrow,but as I understand it we changed our policy to better reflect the requirements of the new accounting regs, and didn't make that totally clear in our annual reports.

Kind offer Rev but really not necessary particularly on the weekend ! Perhaps we can agree that the Sheikh’s advisers will look at the judgement and say to him: this might be regarded by the EFL as a material  issue particularly because we have irritated them !

[Rampage]

5 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I'd have been on the rampage if it had happened.

A point well made MRiG. I see that some youth burnt down Mackworth Church allegedly. Disgrace.

[Rampage]

Is it possible that all this EFL conundrum is going to prevent our takeover, buying players, getting more points etc leading to unexpected relegation because of points deduction etc etc. Impossible to make this scenario up. Can someone explain the Dell apparent conundrum to me.

[Comrade 86]

16 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Is it possible that all this EFL conundrum is going to prevent our takeover, buying players, getting more points etc leading to unexpected relegation because of points deduction etc etc. Impossible to make this scenario up. Can someone explain the Dell apparent conundrum to me.

Our MSD UK loan was secured against Pride Park stadium. It effectively replaced the mortgage that was in place when Morris bought the club. It is being suggested that extricating ourselves from this arrangement may be the primary cause of the delay to the takeover.

It's not possible to say whether this is true or not at this point, but it is a far more plausible scenario than any possibility of EFL sanctions being the cause. The latter has possibility has already been dismissed by those close to the club, a fact confirmed on this forum by Owen Bradley.

Folk have made much of what they perceive to be unscheduled and / or unexpected delays, but I suspect that a deal of this complexity was never going to be a swift undertaking. Buying a property in the UK can take several times the amount of time that has elapsed since the club's official announcement of their its intentions and unfortunately the media has not helped by making a series of assumptions that have proven to have no basis in fact. The prime example of this being that the deal would have been fully negotiated with both parties ready to 'exchange' BEFORE the EFL sanctioned the takeover. This, I'm afraid, is utter nonsense.

People will have to sit tight and remain patient, though clearly that is quite beyond some posters on here. We'd all like to see a prompt conclusion and I think we all agree that while the wheels turn, there is an element of unhelpful uncertainty surrounding the club, but these types of deal are process heavy and simply do not happen overnight, or even over the course of a month. I myself am a little disappointed we've not at least heard further news this week, but I'd imagine the notional and desired timeline would be to have concluded the deal prior to the opening of the January transfer window, after which any delays really would begin to harm the club's stated ambition to strengthen the squad. Just in time for Christmas would be my finger in the air guestimate FWIW.

[Rampage]

5 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Our MSD UK loan was secured against Pride Park stadium. It effectively replaced the mortgage that was in place when Morris bought the club. It is being suggested that extricating ourselves from this arrangement may be the primary cause of the delay to the takeover.

It's not possible to say whether this is true or not at this point, but it is a far more plausible scenario than any possibility of EFL sanctions being the cause. The latter has possibility has already been dismissed by those close to the club, a fact confirmed on this forum by Owen Bradley.

Folk have made much of what they perceive to be unscheduled and / or unexpected delays, but I suspect that a deal of this complexity was never going to be a swift undertaking. Buying a property in the UK can take several times the amount of time that has elapsed since the club's official announcement of their its intentions and unfortunately the media has not helped by making a series of assumptions that have proven to have no basis in fact. The prime example of this being that the deal would have been fully negotiated with both parties ready to 'exchange' BEFORE the EFL sanctioned the takeover. This, I'm afraid, is utter nonsense.

People will have to sit tight and remain patient, though clearly that is quite beyond some posters on here. We'd all like to see a prompt conclusion and I think we all agree that while the wheels turn, there is an element of unhelpful uncertainty surrounding the club, but these types of deal are process heavy and simply do not happen overnight, or even over the course of a month. I myself am a little disappointed we've not at least heard further news this week, but I'd imagine the notional and desired timeline would be to have concluded the deal prior to the opening of the January transfer window, after which any delays really would begin to harm the club's stated ambition to strengthen the squad. Just in time for Christmas would be my finger in the air guestimate FWIW.

Thank you 86 S & a P

[Chester40]

Some irritation is understandable because Mel clearly has a good relationship with Jim White and Simon Jordan and is only too happy to appear on Talksport when he feels like it. 

He could easily go on with a pretence of talking about Wayne Rooney being temporary manager or the pressure of Covid on football owners or the EFL accepting the financial settlement from the Premier League etc and just as aside say he can't talk about the takeover.. but say the last few details are taking time to sort out and he hopes it will be sorted imminently/soon /days /weeks /months. 

Its like going for a job interview and being told they will call you ASAP and 3 days later still waiting, eventually you just think 'I don't care if I haven't got, I just want to know and move on'.

Ultimately you will be gutted when it does fall through and if you got it then all the waiting would be forgotten. 

[kevinhectoring]

27 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

Some irritation is understandable because Mel clearly has a good relationship with Jim White and Simon Jordan and is only too happy to appear on Talksport when he feels like it. 

He could easily go on with a pretence of talking about Wayne Rooney being temporary manager or the pressure of Covid on football owners or the EFL accepting the financial settlement from the Premier League etc and just as aside say he can't talk about the takeover.. but say the last few details are taking time to sort out and he hopes it will be sorted imminently/soon /days /weeks /months. 

Its like going for a job interview and being told they will call you ASAP and 3 days later still waiting, eventually you just think 'I don't care if I haven't got, I just want to know and move on'.

Ultimately you will be gutted when it does fall through and if you got it then all the waiting would be forgotten. 

86 S&aP has said he thinks the deal will happen before Xmas.   If that’s right then MM and the Sheikh might decide no update of this kind is needed.  But if the delay could extend into Jan then maybe they’ll do what you suggest or even issue a holding statement thru the club ?

EFL :  it would be nice to see the EFL saying “the new DCFC owner has approached us and together we’ve agreed that the appeal will be dropped and DCFC will pay a fine”.   Anyone know whether that sort of reset is a possible outcome given where we are with EFL and the other clubs?

 

[rynny]

31 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

EFL :  it would be nice to see the EFL saying “the new DCFC owner has approached us and together we’ve agreed that the appeal will be dropped and DCFC will pay a fine”.   Anyone know whether that sort of reset is a possible outcome given where we are with EFL and the other clubs?

Would you pay a fine for something that you had already been found not guilty for? 

[i-Ram]

8 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Our MSD UK loan was secured against Pride Park stadium. It effectively replaced the mortgage that was in place when Morris bought the club. It is being suggested that extricating ourselves from this arrangement may be the primary cause of the delay to the takeover.

It's not possible to say whether this is true or not at this point, but it is a far more plausible scenario than any possibility of EFL sanctions being the cause. The latter has possibility has already been dismissed by those close to the club, a fact confirmed on this forum by Owen Bradley.

Folk have made much of what they perceive to be unscheduled and / or unexpected delays, but I suspect that a deal of this complexity was never going to be a swift undertaking. Buying a property in the UK can take several times the amount of time that has elapsed since the club's official announcement of their its intentions and unfortunately the media has not helped by making a series of assumptions that have proven to have no basis in fact. The prime example of this being that the deal would have been fully negotiated with both parties ready to 'exchange' BEFORE the EFL sanctioned the takeover. This, I'm afraid, is utter nonsense.

People will have to sit tight and remain patient, though clearly that is quite beyond some posters on here. We'd all like to see a prompt conclusion and I think we all agree that while the wheels turn, there is an element of unhelpful uncertainty surrounding the club, but these types of deal are process heavy and simply do not happen overnight, or even over the course of a month. I myself am a little disappointed we've not at least heard further news this week, but I'd imagine the notional and desired timeline would be to have concluded the deal prior to the opening of the January transfer window, after which any delays really would begin to harm the club's stated ambition to strengthen the squad. Just in time for Christmas would be my finger in the air guestimate FWIW.

Just a couple of thoughts. I am pretty sure the observation regarding an MSD negotiation delay came from someone guessing on here/Twitter. Perhaps there may be break date clauses on loan repayment (and early repayment fees if so), but This shouldn’t require lengthy negotiation. MSD just need to be repaid. You would hope/expect BZG to have the investments funds to repay such a loan, or their own line of credit to substitute. It would be a major concern to me if MSD are still in the picture if the sale is completed.

Property purchases can be completed very quickly, it is normally ‘chain’ issues that delay/lengthen the transaction process. There is of course no chain in this process, so it would be wrong to compare this transaction with national averages.

[RadioactiveWaste]

43 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

86 S&aP has said he thinks the deal will happen before Xmas.   If that’s right then MM and the Sheikh might decide no update of this kind is needed.  But if the delay could extend into Jan then maybe they’ll do what you suggest or even issue a holding statement thru the club ?

EFL :  it would be nice to see the EFL saying “the new DCFC owner has approached us and together we’ve agreed that the appeal will be dropped and DCFC will pay a fine”.   Anyone know whether that sort of reset is a possible outcome given where we are with EFL and the other clubs?

 

I can't see that working. I get the idea of a mutual accommodation and clean slate but such a move from from the EFL's part would trash their already low credibility as the regulator. It's gone down a road where a different party needs to tell the EFL "Game over"

Can you imagain Steve Gibson's take "Derby gave the EFL money and their problems went away and I STILL don't have my 2019 play off place!"

[CornwallRam]

9 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Our MSD UK loan was secured against Pride Park stadium. It effectively replaced the mortgage that was in place when Morris bought the club. It is being suggested that extricating ourselves from this arrangement may be the primary cause of the delay to the takeover.

It's not possible to say whether this is true or not at this point, but it is a far more plausible scenario than any possibility of EFL sanctions being the cause. The latter has possibility has already been dismissed by those close to the club, a fact confirmed on this forum by Owen Bradley.

Folk have made much of what they perceive to be unscheduled and / or unexpected delays, but I suspect that a deal of this complexity was never going to be a swift undertaking. Buying a property in the UK can take several times the amount of time that has elapsed since the club's official announcement of their its intentions and unfortunately the media has not helped by making a series of assumptions that have proven to have no basis in fact. The prime example of this being that the deal would have been fully negotiated with both parties ready to 'exchange' BEFORE the EFL sanctioned the takeover. This, I'm afraid, is utter nonsense.

People will have to sit tight and remain patient, though clearly that is quite beyond some posters on here. We'd all like to see a prompt conclusion and I think we all agree that while the wheels turn, there is an element of unhelpful uncertainty surrounding the club, but these types of deal are process heavy and simply do not happen overnight, or even over the course of a month. I myself am a little disappointed we've not at least heard further news this week, but I'd imagine the notional and desired timeline would be to have concluded the deal prior to the opening of the January transfer window, after which any delays really would begin to harm the club's stated ambition to strengthen the squad. Just in time for Christmas would be my finger in the air guestimate FWIW.

The MSD loans are actually secured against all Mel's football related holdings, rather than just the stadium. There are charges against the stadium, the club, the catering company, the academy and the lease of Moor Farm.

I wonder if that actually might be the cause of the delay? Maybe BZG are not buying the stadium, so the security of the loans becomes complicated, whereas buying the lot, settling the loans and removing the charges is pretty straightforward. 

[Hector was the best]

10 hours ago, Rampage said:

A point well made MRiG. I see that some youth burnt down Mackworth Church allegedly. Disgrace.

I just to live Mackworth EST and often walked passed this lovely church which I believe dates back to the 14th century, this is as you say a total disgrace hope the moron who did this gets a lot more than a smack on the wrist.  ?

[RadioactiveWaste]

23 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

The MSD loans are actually secured against all Mel's football related holdings, rather than just the stadium. There are charges against the stadium, the club, the catering company, the academy and the lease of Moor Farm.

I wonder if that actually might be the cause of the delay? Maybe BZG are not buying the stadium, so the security of the loans becomes complicated, whereas buying the lot, settling the loans and removing the charges is pretty straightforward. 

That would certainly make things complicated. Does make you wonder - at a guess Mel won't sell the stadium to BZG for less than the £80m he bought it for from himself, BZG can't sell their backers on that part, so the deal is the club but not the ground, which remains Mel's. You'd have thought investors who were serious in ambition would want to own and control the stadium as part of the enterprise.