Derby in advanced talks with American billionaire Michael Dell over major financial injection

[rammieib]

So...

Gellaw Newco 202 Limited I think is the company that bought the Stadium. Financial year ending 30th June 2019, they have £81.1 Million of assets on their books.

The Registration of a Charge document is between "the Derby County Football Club Limited and the other Chargors listed in Schedule 1" and "MSD UK Holdings Limited"

Basically, my interpretation is this is a loan backed of by other companies listed. Altogether, including Derby Football Club Limited there are 8 Chargors listed, crucially including Gellaw Newco 202 Limited which owns the stadium.

This is why I think this basically is a mortgage on the stadium but it doesn't just include the Stadium. It also includes the land that Derby County Football Club Ltd own, the car parking at Pride Park and rather randomly, unit 10 of Dunton Close in Derby as well which Derby have a lease on. Of course the stadium is the main asset.

The document doesn't identify the value of the charge. (i.e the loan made).

When I think this through, MM has bought the stadium with his money, (which I think he took a loan on which has since been repaid) thus investing more into the club. He has now prepared to put that asset up as collateral to secure even more income. If we default on payments, the stadium goes into MSD hands, which basically means Mel is losing out. I think this is incredible ownership and leadership.

What else is interesting, the MSD strategy on where they invest - a football club losing money is absolutely anything but their strategic vision. This suggests to me that there is definitely something else in this for the medium to long term.

 

[Woodley Ram]

5 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

 

Absolutely - Mel's money has been used poorly by people other than Mel. He's every right to wind down the funding as he looks on at what £ms in transfers has achieved for the first team so far.

Football looks stuffed full of chancers and people who feel entitled to spaff all the cash they can get their hands on.

Mel if anything is the aggrieved party rather than the source of any of our spending woes.

That was a point I was going to make, the only thing you can accuse Mel of  is potentially taking his eye off the ball regarding the spending we did a few years ago, even then he put somebody in charge he thought he could trust. Since then he has been playing catch up to sort out the finances. He has spent millions on DCFC and will get little back, in football terms he is not a rich man (look how much other owners as worth) and has suck a considerable amount of his fortune into the club.

For the first time in a long time we have good foundations, good owner, good manager, good plan, good youngsters and awesome fans. I am really looking forward to the next couple of seasons. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

5 hours ago, Chester40 said:

Made this point before, but I never understand the constant badgering of people who claim to be ITK to declare where their information comes from. 

If I really was told something in confidence by a source (maybe a relative who is involved in the accounting or legal side of things) then I would do exactly what @Dcfc_20 has done, allude to this knowledge but say I can't really say more (for fear of getting my friend /relative the sack).

Sure we have all been in the situation where a senior manager we are close to at work has let us know certain things that we then hint at to colleagues without letting on too much for it be clear who our source is. 

Just shouting them down means nobody is going to want to say anything for fear they are ridiculed and disbelieved.

It just puts off honest people who may really have heard things...because believe it or not there must be people who are ITK who are married, siblings of other people they confide in!

I would add, reading his posts, I have a very healthy dose of disbelief for this particular poster so I won't be burning effigies of Mel anytime soon based on his claims. 

I must remember never to tell you anything in confidence.

[Ghost of Clough]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well hopefully we've got a sell on fee! Seriously though, he was better than who in the squad was the point when going for promotion.

Left Grimsby on a free so no sell on. He was absolutely bossing it for the U23s in the 16/17 season. We had a bloated squad so no opportunities - Butterfield, Johnson, Hughes, Bryson, de Sart, Hanson and Baird for a spot in CM; Ince, Russell, Anya, Camara, Weimann and Blackman on the wings; not 'mature' enough for the CF spot.

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Or they weren't then good enough and/or fit. Hardly a pot of gold there though is there!

Before this season (19/20), there's zero chance Whittaker would have had a chance. Probably would have eventually faded away due to no game time as well. Instead, Whittaker featured in 21 games and remained on the bench for 9 others. A massive difference. The same applies to others who didn't get a chance - Elsnik, MacDonald, Guy, McAllister, etc...

[sage]

15 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well hopefully we've got a sell on fee! Seriously though, he was better than who in the squad was the point when going for promotion.

He wasn't better than Ince or Vydra  or Martin but you have to invest in youth. People like Sibley are rarities in terms of coming in and doing really well quickly. He should have played some of the games or bench time given to Blackman and Winnall. 

In that type of environment Hughes would have come through but maybe not Hendrick. 

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Before this season (19/20), there's zero chance Whittaker would have had a chance.

He'd have been age 5! FFS who has gone on to be worth any money?

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, sage said:

He wasn't better than Ince or Vydra  or Martin but you have to invest in youth.

Invest away, but if they aren't good enough they aren't good enough.

[Taribo]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

He'd have been age 5! FFS who has gone on to be worth any money?

Kyle McAllister has played 15 games 0 goals this season and 14 games 2 goals last season, not sure if this proves or disproves a point ?‍♂️ just chipping in 

[sage]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Invest away, but if they aren't good enough they aren't good enough.

But that is the whole point. If you don't give people opportunities you won't know. Mismanaging a young player in his late teens for 6 or 12 months can delay his progress by 2 or 3 years.

[CornwallRam]

31 minutes ago, rammieib said:

So...

Gellaw Newco 202 Limited I think is the company that bought the Stadium. Financial year ending 30th June 2019, they have £81.1 Million of assets on their books.

The Registration of a Charge document is between "the Derby County Football Club Limited and the other Chargors listed in Schedule 1" and "MSD UK Holdings Limited"

Basically, my interpretation is this is a loan backed of by other companies listed. Altogether, including Derby Football Club Limited there are 8 Chargors listed, crucially including Gellaw Newco 202 Limited which owns the stadium.

This is why I think this basically is a mortgage on the stadium but it doesn't just include the Stadium. It also includes the land that Derby County Football Club Ltd own, the car parking at Pride Park and rather randomly, unit 10 of Dunton Close in Derby as well which Derby have a lease on. Of course the stadium is the main asset.

The document doesn't identify the value of the charge. (i.e the loan made).

When I think this through, MM has bought the stadium with his money, (which I think he took a loan on which has since been repaid) thus investing more into the club. He has now prepared to put that asset up as collateral to secure even more income. If we default on payments, the stadium goes into MSD hands, which basically means Mel is losing out. I think this is incredible ownership and leadership.

What else is interesting, the MSD strategy on where they invest - a football club losing money is absolutely anything but their strategic vision. This suggests to me that there is definitely something else in this for the medium to long term.

 

So Mel owns the club and the stadium. He's put both up as security for the £30m loan. Hopefully it's a sign of confidence, not desperation. I hope the tribunal is finished because the stadium sale looks a bit less 'arms length'.

I suppose it also explains why the loan is an attractive proposition for MSD. They can't lose. Repaid with interest of they get the club and an £81m stadium for £30m. Interestingly, in the agreement is buried a clause where the club can't be put into administration. Even organising a meeting to discus insolvency is counted as a default on the loan and the ownership of the club passes to MSD.

[rammieib]

Just now, CornwallRam said:

So Mel owns the club and the stadium. He's put both up as security for the £30m loan. Hopefully it's a sign of confidence, not desperation. I hope the tribunal is finished because the stadium sale looks a bit less 'arms length'.

I suppose it also explains why the loan is an attractive proposition for MSD. They can't lose. Repaid with interest of they get the club and an £81m stadium for £30m. Interestingly, in the agreement is buried a clause where the club can't be put into administration. Even organising a meeting to discus insolvency is counted as a default on the loan and the ownership of the club passes to MSD.

Where the Agreement doesn't go into detail is how much of the stadium they could get. It doesn't say they would get the Stadium, its just put up as collateral. However, they'd be an argument to say that they would get £31 Million's worth.

I'd argue that exactly what revenue does owning the stadium get you. If Derby County went bust, there will be not tenants to the stadium and thus no revenue created. However, the whole argument would at the same time put a big flaw into the argument the stadium is worth £81 Million - I'm now almost arguing the case for the EFL!!!

Either way - my two conclusions - incredible commitment from MM and there is more to this deal longer term than just a loan.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

1 minute ago, CornwallRam said:

So Mel owns the club and the stadium. He's put both up as security for the £30m loan. Hopefully it's a sign of confidence, not desperation. I hope the tribunal is finished because the stadium sale looks a bit less 'arms length'.

I suppose it also explains why the loan is an attractive proposition for MSD. They can't lose. Repaid with interest of they get the club and an £81m stadium for £30m. Interestingly, in the agreement is buried a clause where the club can't be put into administration. Even organising a meeting to discus insolvency is counted as a default on the loan and the ownership of the club passes to MSD.

I am not ITK, let's get that clear, but to me this does look like DELL or MSD are wanting to buy the club, talks have been ongoing for a while, the EFL charge has put those talks on hold, MSD remain very interested and are waiting on the outcome of the charge. Mel, in his wisdom, have asked MSD to lend him a few quid to pay the Bill's.

This is like a deposit.

[Ramslad1992]

42 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well hopefully we've got a sell on fee! Seriously though, he was better than who in the squad was the point when going for promotion.

We could have had a 100% sell on clause. 

100% of a free transfer is still £0.

[Ghost of Clough]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

He'd have been age 5! FFS who has gone on to be worth any money?

 

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Invest away, but if they aren't good enough they aren't good enough.

The point is they were good enough. But by having a bloated squad they didn't play. In the 16/17 season we had 6 wingers on high end Championship wages (Ince, Russell, Anya, Camara, Weimann and Blackman), with Bennett down as 7th choice. Butterfield, Johnson, Hughes, Bryson, de Sart, Hanson, Baird and an injured Thorne at CM. Bent, Martin, Wilson, Nugent, Vydra all at the club at various stages in that season. Carson and Grant at GK; Lowe, Fozzy and Olsson at LB, 

A general rule of thumb is 2 senior players in each position, with a youth (U23) player as 3rd choice. We pretty much had 3 senior players for every position. Stick to that 'rule of thumb' and they get the opportunities their U23 performances deserve. Without those opportunities at first team level they don't progress.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The point is they were good enough.

Who were good enough?

[RoyMac5]

edited

[Reggie Greenwood]

15 minutes ago, Taribo said:

Kyle McAllister has played 15 games 0 goals this season and 14 games 2 goals last season, not sure if this proves or disproves a point ?‍♂️ just chipping in 

McAllister was also injured for the majority of the time he was with us which must have held him back

[Jram]

13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Who were good enough?

Not convinced many of our youth players over the last five years were that good but I guess we’ll never know if that’s due to lack of talent or lack of opportunity 

It is telling though that so many of this age group have made it when given an opportunity 

Mind you, they could just be a genuinely golden generation.. to be the best U18 team in the country especially when you think the arsenal team they beat in final last year had players like Saka, Willock, nketiah etc who are now playing regularly for arsenal... I think that shows the level our current 18-20 year olds are at 

[Woodley Ram]

On 23/03/2020 at 14:40, IslandExile said:

The company I work for was bought and then sold by Dell. Not relevant but I just thought I'd mention it.

so you were Delleted

[ThePrisoner]

28 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

So Mel owns the club and the stadium. He's put both up as security for the £30m loan. Hopefully it's a sign of confidence, not desperation. I hope the tribunal is finished because the stadium sale looks a bit less 'arms length'.

Put it this way, more simpler loans such as credit cards, mortgages and personal loans are usually secured against your posessions/collateral by default.

You don't pay your mortgage? The bank takes your house off you. This is the same thing.