v Manchester United (H) - Matchday Thread

[Srg]

2 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Yes that's what confused me about all the complainants contacting Radio Derby about Cocu "picking the youngsters" rather than our best team.

We made 4 changes, Roos for Hamer (meh), Evans & Lowe for Clarke & Wisdom and Sibley for Martin.

So the reality was that we chose ONE young player to replace an assumed first choice player and that young player was the MOTM.

If people can't work out why Cocu might choose Sibley over Martin in a particular game then they are beyond help.

There’s quite a few that are beyond help, unfortunately. Just praying a lot don’t renew. Rather have 20,000 who want to be there to support this young team than the disgusting “support” they got tonight. 

[May Contain Nuts]

12 minutes ago, Andicis said:

The second goal definitely was on rewatch. Piss poor defending. The first should have been dealt with much better too. Fozzy is a good left back, but not a centre half. Evans was lumping it quite a bit at times.

..but it's exactly the same sort of soft defending we've seen whether Clarke, Davies, Keogh, Wisdom , Pearce, Buxton, Shackell, or pretty much anyone else since the days of Moore & Leacock is playing.

..and do I need to remind you how Moore & Leacock (and Claude Davis!) fared against similar opposition'?

Quite simply we were beaten by the better team, helped out by a huge slice of luck to open the scoring, and it became an insurmountable task after we missed a chance to make it 2-1.

[Rev]

17 minutes ago, rammieib said:

The defensive partnership for me was disappointing and Cocu doesn’t respect the cups and this doesn’t respect the fans.

On the positive side - Sibley is excellent and needs to start getting league action now. We’re going to finish midtable so let’s blood him into games so he can become close to a regular next year.

Still think Whittaker will be L1/L2 for his whole career, same with Lowe long term.

 

I think Whittaker will prove you wrong next season, he's got a lot going for him bar experience, which can't be bought.

He's not quite got to grips with senior football yet, but I don't see why he won't with patience and opportunities.

As for Lowe, I think the next year will see how good he can be one way or the other.

At the moment I'd put him on par with Malone, who's had a decent enough career above L1/L2 level, but behind Fozzy.

Lowe obviously should have far more improvement in him, but you could argue that's been the case for 3 or 4 seasons now, and he's not much different from when he first appeared.

 

[rynny]

1 hour ago, Ram8 said:

I agree the future looks good with the youngsters we have, but I just don’t get Cocu’s reasoning re surrendering a chance of progressing in the cup. Chris Martin could have caused their defence some problems tonight, and if we had scored a couple of goals in the first half from his assists (as we did score 3 made by him at Wednesday) then it might have made a big difference. And not even bringing him on as a sub, that’s an insult to a quality player ! 

I don’t think I can ever forgive him for that, he has no respect for the fans’ desire for a good run in the cup ! 

 

I rather Martin miss tonight and play 90 mins on Sunday. 

[MaltRam]

34 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I could show you a whole highlight reel of Forsyth mistakes at centre half. He's a good left back, but he isn't a centre half.

And I could show you a highlight reel of Igor Stimac mistakes at centre half. Means nowt.

Foz is a left back, primarily, but he can play centre half. Did well enough tonight, for saying.

Why criticise?

[Andicis]

5 minutes ago, Coconut said:

..but it's exactly the same sort of soft defending we've seen whether Clarke, Davies, Keogh, Wisdom , Pearce, Buxton, Shackell, or pretty much anyone else since the days of Moore & Leacock is playing.

Quite simply we were beaten by the better team, helped out by a huge slice of luck to open the scoring, and it became an insurmountable task after we missed a chance to make it 2-1.

Don't get me wrong, we were definitely beaten by the better side, no complaints about that. I do feel we could have played better, though. 

[Steve Buckley’s Dog]

7 minutes ago, Srg said:

I was saying that.

Max Lowe’s pace was our best attacking outlet for the majority of the game, forcing Mata to go the wrong way who’s one of the few Man Utd players who doesn’t have pace or the will to defend. 

Cocu made the decision tactically on that front, and can’t see how Forsyth would’ve been a better fit for that job. 

The game was played tonight, but no one is going to improve through not playing and if you think that Man Utd team wouldn’t trot out against any team in this division with £100millions worth of players and win comfortably 99 times out of 100 then I don’t know what to tell you, other than Forsyth playing left back would not have changed a thing. 

The purpose of telling you to prepare for Lowe is because the type of short termism you displayed in the rest of your comments is what has lead to some of the chronically bad recruitment decisions over the past 5 or 6 years. 

I think that the points you are making are ridiculously presumptuous. I have stated that I think that Forsyth is a better left back than Max Lowe. I don’t see how that relates to short termism.  I believe that in a cup competition you should play your best team and Try and progress. That is sort of the point of a cup competition. 
 

As for them having millions of pounds worth of players and so we would only win 1 out of 100, really? We beat them last year. We also beat them in the 1st leg of the league cup not that long ago. I think that would make it 1 out of 3 or 4 based on recent history, not 1 out of 100. 

[Andicis]

Just now, Needlesh said:

And I could show you a highlight reel of Igor Stimac mistakes at centre half. Means nowt.

Foz is a left back, primarily, but he can play centre half. Did well enough tonight, for saying.

Why criticise?

He shouldn't play there. He should only be there in case of injury crisis. Why shouldn't I criticise? He didn't play well, and he hasn't played well there in quite some time. He's a left back, a good one, but that's it. 

[rammieib]

4 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

I think Whittaker will prove you wrong next season, he's got a lot going for him bar experience, which can't be bought.

He's not quite got to grips with senior football yet, but I don't see why he won't with patience and opportunities.

As for Lowe, I think the next year will see how good he can be one way or the other.

At the moment I'd put him on par with Malone, who's had a decent enough career above L1/L2 level, but behind Fozzy.

Lowe obviously should have far more improvement in him, but you could argue that's been the case for 3 or 4 seasons now, and he's not much different from when he first appeared.

 

I would put myself above Malone so Max Lowe for sure. I actually want Forsyth in the team - it makes us stronger defensively especially for height/heading.

I honestly see Whittaker being a journeyman - aka Izale McCleod (was that his name), Marvin Robinson, Mark O’Brien, etc

Would love to be wrong as if I am, it means he’s contributing but he is so weak it’s unbelievable. Great piece of awareness for the reverse pass to Bogle but never closed down with intent, never showed for it (and actually wanted the ball) and he looks like a player who will on his life forever miss hit shots lol.

[Srg]

2 minutes ago, Steve Buckley’s Dog said:

I think that the points you are making are ridiculously presumptuous. I have stated that I think that Forsyth is a better left back than Max Lowe. I don’t see how that relates to short termism.  I believe that in a cup competition you should play your best team and Try and progress. That is sort of the point of a cup competition. 
 

As for them having millions of pounds worth of players and so we would only win 1 out of 100, really? We beat them last year. We also beat them in the 1st leg of the league cup not that long ago. I think that would make it 1 out of 3 or 4 based on recent history, not 1 out of 100. 

To take a page out of your book, this game was played tonight, not last season or any other time. Where Man Utd had this team, which is in good form right now and playing well. 

And it absolutely relates to short termism if there’s no room to give a chance for a player to develop. That’s how you end up paying £7m for a Bradley Johnson instead of developing and finding someone younger and cheaper. 

However, I see we aren’t going to agree here so you crack on with Forsyth playing left back would’ve won us this game. 

[DazaDunn]

I’m just going to say my thoughts and ignore any backlash. I watched Wednesday vs City last night thinking wow... Wednesday aren’t even giving it a go. That could never be my Derby.

Tonight I just felt we were very negative. Our starting 11 from our 3-1 win could have had United tonight. I thought they were poor. One thing that absolutely boils my blood is when my team whimpers out of an FA cup against higher opponents. Tonight I felt we whimpered out. Sorry Phil but tonight felt similar to the Forest cup game ?

[Steve Buckley’s Dog]

Just now, Srg said:

To take a page out of your book, this game was played tonight, not last season or any other time. Where Man Utd had this team, which is in good form right now and playing well. 

And it absolutely relates to short termism if there’s no room to give a chance for a player to develop. That’s how you end up paying £7m for a Bradley Johnson instead of developing and finding someone younger and cheaper. 

However, I see we aren’t going to agree here so you crack on with Forsyth playing left back would’ve won us this game. 

I don’t think at any point I said Forsyth playing left back would have won us the game. I said that he is a better left back than Max Lowe. You seem to be getting a little wound up by that for reasons I can’t fathom. If you disagree then that is fine but I don’t really see how you are relating so many other points and apparent views to that one. 
 

What is pretty clear is that the better team won and McTominay is a bit of a knob. Perhaps we can agree on that.

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Evans put in a decent performance for me. I’d be happy with him, Wisdom or are Wierik playing CB next season. Need to sort the left sided position out as Forsyth just isn’t a CB and Davies is past it. 

Agree re evans

Tbh I think unless something dramatically changes fozzy will still be a shoeing for the left back spot Still next year 

lowe still looks frighteningly raw (and im not referring to tonight particularly)

he’s got oodles of talent but again like bogle his decision making ironically more on the ball leaves a lot to be desired 

he will learn and Im In no doubt will be an asset for this club just just needs to get his head up a bit and play the ball earlier instead of head down and try And run as far and as fast as he can

loved bits of Whittaker’s play tonight, bird technically looks so good and so much prefer knight centrally to our wide

sibly did well, I won’t lie I’m not getting the same levels of a hard on over his play tonight as others but he acquitted himself well and will benefit massively from the experience 

lovely shot, energy and a little bit of devilment ... what’s not to like lol 

[Ambitious]

2 minutes ago, rammieib said:

I would put myself above Malone so Max Lowe for sure. I actually want Forsyth in the team - it makes us stronger defensively especially for height/heading.

I honestly see Whittaker being a journeyman - aka Izale McCleod (was that his name), Marvin Robinson, Mark O’Brien, etc

Would love to be wrong as if I am, it means he’s contributing but he is so weak it’s unbelievable. Great piece of awareness for the reverse pass to Bogle but never closed down with intent, never showed for it (and actually wanted the ball) and he looks like a player who will on his life forever miss hit shots lol.

Whittaker has been ever-present in the England youth teams. None of the others were: O'Brien was highly rated by ROI but had a really serious health issue that effectively restricted his potential. Whittaker, I think, has more England youth appearances than anyone else whilst at Derby since Huddlestone. He has more than Barnes. 

 

[LeedsCityRam]

21 minutes ago, Andicis said:

The second goal definitely was on rewatch. Piss poor defending. The first should have been dealt with much better too. Fozzy is a good left back, but not a centre half. Evans was lumping it quite a bit at times.

Yeah on occasion but I don't recall any instance (other than Lowe's poor pass first half) where Man Utd caught us in possession in our final 3rd. Evans is confident on the ball & crucially, has decent judgement in possession so if he was being pressured or had no options, he wasn't afraid to go long - not a bad strategy. All too often this season we've tried to play from the back when it hasn't been on & it's cost us. He can also play short balls confidently & with Bird & Rooney on hand, there's plenty of options dropping deep to turn & play. I felt very comfortable with us knocking it around the back 4 tonight, possibly more so than any other game this season.

I do understand your point about second choice CBs tonight but also think we'll think of Evans as a far superior CB (and member of the first XI) in 6 months' time.

[Inverurie Ram]

Regarding selection, I can't believe they didn't pick Phil Jones!

Cocu is making us play football and believes in our young kids and it's great that some of our fans believe in our young kids.

Some of us will remember how great Man Utd became believing in their young kids and how much they won in England and in Europe by giving them the opportunities, the experience in matches against experienced players and players with better quality.

Some of us will admire the noise and constant singing made by the Man Utd supporters who constantly sing songs about their players that they support, and the singing of songs of ex players that they respect and cherish understanding the importance of their history and the club that they love.

We are improving, and our young kids did us proud in the UEFA Youth League, and our young kids did us proud tonight, and quite easily on another day, just like in the past when Wanchope scores at Old Trafford, or Christie scores at Old Trafford, or like last year on pens at Old Trafford, we enjoy a different result. Two free kicks from Rooney might have gone in, Sibley's chance might have gone in, Waghorn's header might have gone in, Marriott's instant shot might have gone in, and we win 5-3 and we are all loving our club to bits on here. 

But hey that's football for you. 

I love Derby County Football Club, and that's all that matters.

D.C.F.C. Love, Life & Unity.

 

[Derby blood]

6 minutes ago, Inverurie Ram said:

Regarding selection, I can't believe they didn't pick Phil Jones!

Cocu is making us play football and believes in our young kids and it's great that some of our fans believe in our young kids.

Some of us will remember how great Man Utd became believing in their young kids and how much they won in England and in Europe by giving them the opportunities, the experience in matches against experienced players and players with better quality.

Some of us will admire the noise and constant singing made by the Man Utd supporters who constantly sing songs about their players that they support, and the singing of songs of ex players that they respect and cherish understanding the importance of their history and the club that they love.

We are improving, and our young kids did us proud in the UEFA Youth League, and our young kids did us proud tonight, and quite easily on another day, just like in the past when Wanchope scores at Old Trafford, or Christie scores at Old Trafford, or like last year on pens at Old Trafford, we enjoy a different result. Two free kicks from Rooney might have gone in, Sibley's chance might have gone in, Waghorn's header might have gone in, Marriott's instant shot might have gone in, and we win 4-3 and we are all loving our club to bits on here. 

But hey that's football for you. 

I love Derby County Football Club, and that's all that matters.

D.C.F.C. Love, Life & Unity.

 

Spot on, now all Derby fans let's all get behind the team on Sunday, played some nice stuff tonight, do not forget the gap between the prem and championship is massive teams like Watford, Southampton and West ham would walk this league this year, Leeds WBA, and who ever else goes up could be straight back down again, Derby are building in the correct way under Cocu, all those kids out there tonight, will be better players for there experience tonight. Roll on next season, it could be a very special season next year. 

[uttoxram75]

Our under 19’s did ok against a top 5 Premiership club.

Their goals were scrappy and lucky although they were the better, slicker side  

Nowt went for us, the ref was spellbound by the Man Yoo franchise and kissed their arse all game.

Waggy just has to hit the target with his header, we had a few decent balls in and around the box but it weren’t to be.

Keep the faith with the kids and Cocu and Rooney will do the business next season. 

[desirelines]

Were we gonna win the FA Cup? No. Was it worth trying out a few youngsters? Yes. Do we need to save legs for the weekend? Yes. Do we need to accrue as many points as possible in the Championship in case we get a big points deduction? Yes. Did we make a good chunk of money tonight dancing around in the Rooney circus big top? Flipping aye. Not perfect, but a good night all round. Onwards! 

[Wraggrams]

This was no whimper tonight. I thought we played some good stuff and you can see what Cocu is trying to develop. It is remarkable that we had 5 teenagers playing today and they didn't look out of place. This was a tremendous learning curve for the youngsters and bodes well for the future. It's clear that we haven't got the players Cocu needs to fully implement his possession from the back approach; but Evans does come closer to this animal than Davies. Lowe and Bogle gave Utd more to think about defensively. Sibley rattled Utd with his directness and for a player with so little experience at this level, he is an exciting prospect. Bird and Knight continue to progress very well. Whittaker perhaps lacks the self assuredness of the other youngsters but he shows his ability in glimpses. Roos had one of his better games and Forsyth only gave it away a couple of times. All in all, well done lads! Well done Cocu for thinking long term and keeping your head; when so many others in and around the club have lost theirs.