Coronavirus

[G STAR RAM]

 

21 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

That would indeed be a bit stupid and a complete misinterpretation of the phrase "complete recovery"

Is this a verifiable fact then? That once you've had a positive Covid test, you will be recorded as a Covid death regardless of how or when you die in the future?

Cos let's be honest - it sounds like you just made it up

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/21/analysis-why-englands-covid-19-death-toll-is-wrong-but-not-by-much

[alexxxxx]

Still a surprising number (to me?) of deaths per day out of hospital settings. From the data I've seen the out of hospital deaths are now considerably higher than hospital deaths. I was thinking this would grow as a proportion of deaths rather than fall. 

Death numbers appear to be dropping steadily in any case. 

Hopefully numbers gonna keep on dropping. Feeling pretty positive at the moment, particularly in comparison to the current situation in the USA. 

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/21/analysis-why-englands-covid-19-death-toll-is-wrong-but-not-by-much

Cheers - that is a bit bonkers, but then as they say "the numbers where that situation would apply are likely to be very small"

and then it points out that the death numbers won't really be that far out as they were under-reported in the early days when the testing was still a fiasco and loads of deaths weren't being counted as they'd never got as far as testing positive

I suppose my original point still stands - why are people so obsessed with whether the numbers have been 100% accurate or not?

 

[G STAR RAM]

36 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

Still a surprising number (to me?) of deaths per day out of hospital settings. From the data I've seen the out of hospital deaths are now considerably higher than hospital deaths. I was thinking this would grow as a proportion of deaths rather than fall. 

Death numbers appear to be dropping steadily in any case. 

Hopefully numbers gonna keep on dropping. Feeling pretty positive at the moment, particularly in comparison to the current situation in the USA. 

Maybe we are at the stage now where it's people dying WITH Covid but FROM other causes, meaning they have not needed to be admitted to hospital?

[Chester40]

4 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

You wouldn't say - "550 people per week are dying of their injuries after being hit by cars, but it's highly likely that most of these deaths were not due to being hit by a car"

Died of a bleed to the brain after head hit concrete - nothing to do with the car that flung them in the air

I don't get why so many people are obsessed with whether the Covid mortality numbers are/have been overstated

Those really are very poor analogies. 

You could however, be in a horrendous car accident and have Covid (or cancer). Would the cause of death be Covid? What if your immune system were weakened so you died from your injuries when you otherwise possibly wouldn't have? You could die from heart attack, stroke, pneumonia...if you have Covid is it the primary or contributing cause...or not at all, some people are asymptomatic but could bang their head, complications after surgery, have a massive allergic reaction whatever...how deaths are counted is very important, as the care home situation illustrates. 

That in bold.. is very confusing. The whole country is being bleed dry financially, emotionally...knowing on what basis surely has a lot of merit, regardless of where you stand generally. If I was about to have an operation, have a baby, visit a relative in a care home .. I would want to know the real risks. 

[alexxxxx]

27 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Maybe we are at the stage now where it's people dying WITH Covid but FROM other causes, meaning they have not needed to be admitted to hospital?

Could be a factor I suppose, whatever it is - seems to me a strange situation that you would be dying of this without medical attention you'd be getting in a hospital.. 

[Chester40]

Where I admit I would totally be guessing and have confirmation bias...is around any lower death rate being due to lockdown. 

Personally I can imagine A&E admissions would be way, way lower. Without..sport injuries, fighting in pubs, kids banging heads on playground, work related injuries, car crashes... 

But deaths from those?? I guess this would be relatively small??? And other years, most deaths would not be accidental but inevitable (so this year potentially hastened by Covid) ie heart attack, stroke, 'old age', cancers...? 

There is no saying 'its fine' here, any death however early is terrible for the family, am just trying to understand the figures and I genuinely don't know. 

[Eddie]

4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

But not all deaths being recorded with covid are like that

Please cite numbers found within a verifiable source, instead of just your usual conjecture and bottom-burps

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Wonder how many of these companies had links to MPs and how many were just con artists?

Is there a difference?

[Ghost of Clough]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Please cite numbers found within a verifiable source, instead of just your usual conjecture and bottom-burps

The link from @G STAR RAM confirms it. 

A Department of Health and Social Care source summed this up as: “You could have been tested positive in February, have no symptoms, then be hit by a bus in July and you’d be recorded as a Covid death.”

[G STAR RAM]

58 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

Could be a factor I suppose, whatever it is - seems to me a strange situation that you would be dying of this without medical attention you'd be getting in a hospital.. 

Isnt that the point? That they are recording people dying with Covid-19 even if it has not been the cause or even severe enough to hospitalised them?

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, alexxxxx said:

Feeling pretty positive at the moment, particularly in comparison to the current situation in the USA. 

That is like saying you watched The Handmaid's Tale the other day and you are feeling pretty positive compared to the situation in Gilead.

[Brammie Steve]

Before we jump to blame governments, oppositions, scientific advisors, conspiracy theorists, newspapers, the media and Uncle Tom Cobley and all..

Look up William Mompesson and the village of Eyam on Google.

Eyam was close enough to Derby, Sheffield, Manchester Leeds etc to have caused thousands more deaths from the Plague.

They were human beings of like passions and needs as us but they set all this aside for the greater good.

Should we do less and object to social distancing, restrictions and mask wearing.

At least we're not having to tie loved one's bodies up in sheets to be collected from the streets!

Watch this weeks "Songs of Praise"

355 years is not that long ago.

[Gone]

9 minutes ago, Brummie Steve said:

355 years is not that long ago

About as long as Leeds haven’t been In the Premier league if you listen to talk sport/sky etc etc.........

[alexxxxx]

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Isnt that the point? That they are recording people dying with Covid-19 even if it has not been the cause or even severe enough to hospitalised them?

Actually just seen a better graph and its not quite as I describe. It's bout 30 a day atm both in and out of hospital. I don't think we'll ever know truly the real figure. 

Need to hope that we can get the number of infected down a lot now so there's a lower base for autumn and winter. No visits to/from USA or Brazil or wherever is high I don't think either without severe quarantine restrictions. 

[G STAR RAM]

12 hours ago, Eddie said:

Please cite numbers found within a verifiable source, instead of just your usual conjecture and bottom-burps

Are you actually capable of responding politely to anyone that has a different view to you?

I'm afraid, despite you actually appearing to be quite intelligent, you often just leave the feeling that you're just full of yourself.

[Wolfie]

14 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

I suppose my original point still stands - why are people so obsessed with whether the numbers have been 100% accurate or not?

 

In my experience, the people I know aren't (except for on here).

A rising death count is great for those lovely big red "Breaking News" banners, though. A particular pet hate of mine.

I suspect we'll never know how many actually died because of Covid.

It's interesting that the definition has changed from "Deaths from Covid", to "Deaths with Covid" and now "Deaths of people having tested positive for Covid". According to the BBC anyway - cos that's the only TV news I watch. I'm assuming that's the official line, so others are doing the same.

[alexxxxx]

8 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said:

In my experience, the people I know aren't (except for on here).

A rising death count is great for those lovely big red "Breaking News" banners, though. A particular pet hate of mine.

I suspect we'll never know how many actually died because of Covid.

It's interesting that the definition has changed from "Deaths from Covid", to "Deaths with Covid" and now "Deaths of people having tested positive for Covid". According to the BBC anyway - cos that's the only TV news I watch. I'm assuming that's the official line, so others are doing the same.

Yeah exactly it's about getting a true picture. When you get all these numbers banded about without a true vision of what's going on, the distortion of reality just fuels anxiety in people and then will have an impact on the political actions taken.

I'm not happy at all with the way the government have handled this crisis and I hope the inevitable inquiry clears up why certain decisions were made but there's no need to keep the nation's anxiety up whilst things are getting better. 

[Anag Ram]

Thing is, the government panicked when numbers rose so quickly in early April. 

They then started the Nightingale hospitals and started kicking people out of hospital as soon as they could walk in readiness for the hordes of COVID-19 patients. 

Included in this was inevitably a large number of elderly patients who were transferred to care homes without being tested. 

When PPE was being sourced care homes were well down the list. 

So, we have ended up with a huge number of deaths and cases from the care sector. 

I think a lot of people are ready to criticise the approach taken. But we haven't had a pandemic like this in our lifetime. 

We used to view sensible Orientals, worried about spreading disease by wearing masks, as somehow eccentric. 

Now it's our turn and we don't like it. 

My view is 'anything that helps get things back to normal'. 

Including, rather selfishly, watching football live! 

[rammieib]

1 hour ago, Anag Ram said:

Thing is, the government panicked when numbers rose so quickly in early April. 

They then started the Nightingale hospitals and started kicking people out of hospital as soon as they could walk in readiness for the hordes of COVID-19 patients. 

Included in this was inevitably a large number of elderly patients who were transferred to care homes without being tested. 

When PPE was being sourced care homes were well down the list. 

So, we have ended up with a huge number of deaths and cases from the care sector. 

I think a lot of people are ready to criticise the approach taken. But we haven't had a pandemic like this in our lifetime. 

We used to view sensible Orientals, worried about spreading disease by wearing masks, as somehow eccentric. 

Now it's our turn and we don't like it. 

My view is 'anything that helps get things back to normal'. 

Including, rather selfishly, watching football live! 

How many care homes are Privately run institutions and how many are driven by the Government? I genuinely don't know the split here but should the Government be responsible for providing the PPE and covering the general welfare of patients in the privately owned care homes?