GboroRam Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Congratulations on your promotion to self appointed forum spokesperson! *Awaits incoming attack like an American airbase in Iraq I think it was just a bit of "friendly fire", something the Americans are also very familiar with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 51 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Just wondering why concerns are only ever aired when it's a chance to take a swipe at the likes of Trump and Johnson? Because we supposedly think of ourselves as the good guys. At least we did. We at least abide by the rule in our own countries...most of the time. What goes on tour stays on tour. This guy who America just ssassinated saw thousands of Iranians die in the war vs Iraq backed by the West, who were after oil. You can sort of see how actions have consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Lets face it, neither us nor the US have any experience of being exploited by superior powers for their own ends, in the name of civilization or democracy or whatever. Well, the Native Americans probably do but nobody asks them much........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Congratulations on your promotion to self appointed forum spokesperson! Can't be arsed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 46 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: Lets face it, neither us nor the US have any experience of being exploited by superior powers for their own ends, in the name of civilization or democracy or whatever. Well, the Native Americans probably do but nobody asks them much........ What did the Romans ever do for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 28% of Americans were able to point out Iran on a map and yeah I know - Americans being thick is hardly news, so don't bother Instead ask yourself - who had ever heard of Soleimani before the US killed him? I'll warrant 99.x% of people had no idea who he was Yet now we're all immediately convinced we know enough about his actions to say his reckless and illegal execution was justified But none of us just blindly swallow what the media tell us do we? We all do our own research right? Meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 16 minutes ago, ossieram said: What did the Romans ever do for us? Civilized us, until we went back to painting ourselves blue with woad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 20 minutes ago, ossieram said: What did the Romans ever do for us? Softened us up for the Saxons? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 1 hour ago, ossieram said: What did the Romans ever do for us? Duck all. Came over here, stole all our jobs building stuff we never knew we needed, introduced us to farming techniques that led to old classics like mud and pigeon poo pie being forgotten in favour of apples, pears and them pesky little pea things. Fresh produce. baalocks! And all them building regs, jeez. We'd have got round to building using something other than cow turds and straw given time. Buried the local building trade they did with their bloody red tape and fancy buildings made out of stone. Stuff lumping all them heavy rocks about. Three years of poop scooping and there's ample to build a single storey hovel with and it's all biodegradable too, usually, every time it rains. And viaducts FFS! Who needs water? We're a nation of tea drinkers thank you very much. Always have been, always will be, why the duck would we need water? Daft Woppo bankers. As for sanitation, christ alive! I mean what harm did wading through rivers of poo to get to your daub and wattle hut ever do? Utter nonsense. As for roads, give me strength! If you've got a pig, a bucket and a few spare daughters, why would you ever need to go anywhere else? As for currency, who needs it? Just trade a daughter for a pig and three rocks. What else do you need? There were no flies on us I'll have you know, they were far too busy chowing down on our rivers of poo for starters. Let's face it, immigration sucks. Once they were off on their toes we were fine apart from the odd plague or two and getting raped and pillaged by them Saxons... and those Viking blokes... and the Normans. There might have been a few others but thankfully they all went home when they realised there was nothing here but pigs, buckets, poo, typhoid and well fed flies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 42 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: 28% of Americans were able to point out Iran on a map and yeah I know - Americans being thick is hardly news, so don't bother Instead ask yourself - who had ever heard of Soleimani before the US killed him? I'll warrant 99.x% of people had no idea who he was Yet now we're all immediately convinced we know enough about his actions to say his reckless and illegal execution was justified But none of us just blindly swallow what the media tell us do we? We all do our own research right? Meh What exactly is the point that you are making? I'm pretty sure 99.9% of people had no idea who Sheikh Mohammed was before 9/11. Most of people do rely on their information from the media, unless you have access to national security I'm not sure where else your information would come in this instance. FWIW I've seen interviews with people from a range of backgrounds that seem to unanimously agree that it was the right move to take this guy out, unsurprisingly only seems to be Jezza on the side of the Iranian...hope its nothing to do with the money he received from the Iranian state TV... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: What exactly is the point that you are making? I'm pretty sure 99.9% of people had no idea who Sheikh Mohammed was before 9/11. Most of people do rely on their information from the media, unless you have access to national security I'm not sure where else your information would come in this instance. FWIW I've seen interviews with people from a range of backgrounds that seem to unanimously agree that it was the right move to take this guy out, unsurprisingly only seems to be Jezza on the side of the Iranian...hope its nothing to do with the money he received from the Iranian state TV... A call for the supremacy of international law is not being on the side of Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 27 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: A call for the supremacy of international law is not being on the side of Iran. At the expense of being accused of whataboutery again, is there any instances of Corbyn showing such interest when it was the Iranians attacking the Americans? He seems to be the only person unwilling to even see the guy as a terrorist. Pretty clear to see whose camp he is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 2 hours ago, ossieram said: What did the Romans ever do for us? The aqueduct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 39 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: What exactly is the point that you are making? I'm pretty sure 99.9% of people had no idea who Sheikh Mohammed was before 9/11. Most of people do rely on their information from the media, unless you have access to national security I'm not sure where else your information would come in this instance. FWIW I've seen interviews with people from a range of backgrounds that seem to unanimously agree that it was the right move to take this guy out, unsurprisingly only seems to be Jezza on the side of the Iranian...hope its nothing to do with the money he received from the Iranian state TV... I find that strange. Setting aside the legality, think about the consequences of taking him out. First of all, there was a huge risk that the inevitable Iranian retaliation would have killed Americans and that would probably led to all out war. An awful development for all concerned. Secondly, killing Soleimani is an a boost for the Iranian regime, people in Iran will now unify in their hatred for the US and forget (temporarily at least) their growing dissatisfaction at the Iranian regime and their policies. So from the US's perspective that's one potential catastrophic outcome of killing Suleimani and one all but guaranteed negative consequence. And what was to gain from killing him? A man who has, and was always going to be, replaced seamlessly by an equally implacable rival of the US. Esmail Ghaani has already stepped into Suleimani shoes and things will continue as unusual for Iran's proxy forces in the whole region. So, it was illegal, with a guaranteed downside tactically as well as potentially devastating repercussions for the whole region as well as the US. And it will have no notable change on Iran operationally. Who are all these various people that think it was the right move and what on earth are they thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 Just now, Highgate said: I find that strange. Setting aside the legality, think about the consequences of taking him out. First of all, there was a huge risk that the inevitable Iranian retaliation would have killed Americans and that would probably led to all out war. An awful development for all concerned. Secondly, killing Soleimani is an a boost for the Iranian regime, people in Iran will now unify in their hatred for the US and forget (temporarily at least) their growing dissatisfaction at the Iranian regime and their policies. So from the US's perspective that's one potential catastrophic outcome of killing Suleimani and one all but guaranteed negative consequence. And what was to gain from killing him? A man who has, and was always going to be, replaced seamlessly by an equally implacable rival of the US. Esmail Ghaani has already stepped into Suleimani shoes and things will continue as unusual for Iran's proxy forces in the whole region. So, it was illegal, with a guaranteed downside tactically as well as potentially devastating repercussions for the whole region as well as the US. And it will have no notable change on Iran operationally. Who are all these various people that think it was the right move and what on earth are they thinking? The consensus of what I have heard, summarised, is as follows:- Killing him has saved many more lives Iran are too weak to launch any major reprisals, all out war is extremely likely. Iranians were just trying to save face with last nights missiles. The one point that you say that others seem to agree with is that the move will have united Iranians in their hatred for America but let's not pretend this is something new. Apparently, away from the gaze of the media Iran have been sabre rattling in the Middle East for some time, seeing how far they can push things. It appears they finally went a step too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkleyram Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said: Lets face it, neither us nor the US have any experience of being exploited by superior powers for their own ends, in the name of civilization or democracy or whatever. Well, the Native Americans probably do but nobody asks them much........ Well we did get invaded and taken over by the Normans, a few hundred years after the Italians and the Vikings had pretty good goes at us. And, in turn, we Brits did do a good job on America for a fair few years after we 'discovered' it. You could reasonably argue that out of all those events arose not only our constitution but also that of the USA, both of which have stood the test of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 21 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: The consensus of what I have heard, summarised, is as follows:- Killing him has saved many more lives Even if we are to accept the American assessment of Suleimani in it's entirety killing him is unlikely to save any lives. Why are people assuming his replacement will be a pacifist? We'll get just more of the same with an extra reason for a grievance against the US. Iran are too weak to launch any major reprisals, all out war is extremely likely. Had any one of those missiles last night killed an American soldier, which they could have, war would be anything but extremely unlikely. Iranians were just trying to save face with last nights missiles.I I'm sure that had a lot to do with...but again it could have had deadly consequences. The one point that you say that others seem to agree with is that the move will have united Iranians in their hatred for America but let's not pretend this is something new. It's not new, but the assassination lets the regime off the hook with it's own people just when the internal pressure was mounting for significant change. The killing of Suleimani ironically couldn't have come at a better time for Khamenei. Apparently, away from the gaze of the media Iran have been sabre rattling in the Middle East for some time, seeing how far they can push things. It appears they finally went a step too far. Had the US remained in the Iran nuclear deal and not reimposed sanctions things would be a whole lot quieter. Trump has been awful on Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: The consensus of what I have heard, summarised, is as follows:- Killing him has saved many more lives Iran are too weak to launch any major reprisals, all out war is extremely likely. Iranians were just trying to save face with last nights missiles. The one point that you say that others seem to agree with is that the move will have united Iranians in their hatred for America but let's not pretend this is something new. Apparently, away from the gaze of the media Iran have been sabre rattling in the Middle East for some time, seeing how far they can push things. It appears they finally went a step too far. Seems to me, after looking at the damage on satellite images, people seem to think the attacks from Iran were deliberately botched. Either they are poo at aiming, or it was botched. Add to the fact everyone got given an hour's notice to get out of the way. Still, I see their media is reporting American deaths. So they've done their job on creating more hate for the Americans. Nothing new there. They have their elections next year too. Anyhoo, I find it amusing that our resident left wingers - experts in Brexit, capitalism, identity politics, climate change etc etc are also experts in the Middle East. Especially concerning Iran. Iran's Foreign Secretary now saying the response was proportionate and is calling for no more escalations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 7 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Congratulations on your promotion to self appointed forum spokesperson! *Awaits incoming attack like an American airbase in Iraq Consider this your hour's notice. Best not to move actually. I'm poo at aiming. You'd only be wasting your own time. Will tell my mates I have got you, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 I have a new game. It's called Catching Corbyn. Basically, you have to find Corbyn in places you shouldn't. Here's the first picture. He's in there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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