Cocu in or out?

[Retro_RAM]

Stay, he needs at least one transfer window, we have to rebuild the squad. The majority of our players are either not at this level or inconsistent in their performances and changing the manager won't change that. Hell last season we had what are now 3 premier league starters, one of which is now an England regular propping up the team and we still never got promoted.

Cannot keep this same team year after year swapping managers when results are going bad and hoping for the best with the next one.

[papa_lazarou]

Has to be said reading this thread is more entertaining than the football at the moment. This was on the cards, the team needs a root and stem rebuild. We have a make shift centre back pairing and no depth. We are carrying players that have been a luxury for more than one season and don't put a consistent shift in.

Cocu inherited a mess. We shouldn't kid ourseves that the team was great last year just because it made a playoff final. We've lost goals and creativity from midfield and we have had no bite in midfield since Eustace left. Lampard did a great job of papering over the cracks with some very lucky excellent loans. He would have faced the same issue this season as well, maybe less so as he would have had a full preseason unlike Cocu.

Stating the obvious, but January will be big in terms of how we do. He needs to be judged on what he does in terms recruitment and how we play in the new year. Even with this transfer window it will be far from what he's trying to build.

It's a bitter pill to swallow, but we need some patience. Just my opinion however.

 

[CornwallRam]

I've watched Derby County for a long time. I've never seen a manager turn this sort of chaos around. Crisis  teams always suffer bad luck and get dodgy refs.

I believe that Mel has given his unqualified support to Cocu and he'll be retained until late February. By then it'll be to late and we'll go down.

I know that today was an improvement. There's a chance that today might have bonded the squad to such an extent that they actually start playing for each other and begin picking up points again. If that happens, Cuco might prove me wrong. Whereas, I don't rule that out as a possibility,  I'll be very surprised if it happens.

I think that Wigan is crucial. Lose again and any positives from today vanish. Then we're really in a relegation fight. Win and the Rooney bounce might save Cocu and show just how little I know about football.

[Ghost of Clough]

43 minutes ago, Nick_Ram said:

We lost 3-0 to a team of nobodies.

If only Cocu had selected your buddy Scott to start - we wouldn’t have lost. Oh...

[derbydaz22]

4 minutes ago, papa_lazarou said:

Has to be said reading this thread is more entertaining than the football at the moment. This was on the cards, the team needs a root and stem rebuild. We have a make shift centre back pairing and no depth. We are carrying players that have been a luxury for more than one season and don't put a consistent shift in.

Cocu inherited a mess. We shouldn't kid ourseves that the team was great last year just because it made a playoff final. We've lost goals and creativity from midfield and we have had no bite in midfield since Eustace left. Lampard did a great job of papering over the cracks with some very lucky excellent loans. He would have faced the same issue this season as well, maybe less so as he would have had a full preseason unlike Cocu.

Stating the obvious, but January will be big in terms of how we do. He needs to be judged on what he does in terms recruitment and how we play in the new year. Even with this transfer window it will be far from what he's trying to build.

It's a bitter pill to swallow, but we need some patience. Just my opinion however.

 

Let’s be honest we are short of quality all over the pitch and have no pace at CB meaning we drop off to deep in games,January is massive and sacking the manager is not the answer short term and definitely not long term.

[mwram1973]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Who picked Malone? Who left on 'couldn't hit a barn door' Waghorn? Need a goal-poacher leave him on the bench. Play Fozzy at CH after a poor showing, why not Wizzy? Etc, he makes lots of 'odd' decisions.

Plus he's obviously not a 'lucky' manager.

Can't agree with this. How could he have known Malone would have given a penalty away so early on, the same player who thousands of fans were singing his name last season.

He left on our top goalscorer, if he had taken him off he would have been criticised too, damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Martins done sod all since his early goals.

[lagavulinram]

Im backing cocu still.

Is this the Derby way?

Cant wait until rooners dons the shirt. 2 hat tricks, first game. 

A couple a new signings wouldnt go amiss either

[Mafiabob]

Frank Lampard is the architect of this mess.

Papered over cracks with good loan signings, underachieved with what we had then.

Then a pre season tour organised, after a month of stretching out Chelsea negotiations..... silly vids whether he “should stay or go” and finally signs when the squad is in USA, being a week behind schedule.....

Rushed loan signings to cover gaps.....

 

It was ok though, he did bounce and Jody liked a few bevvies on insta stories though.

[RamNut]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Who picked Malone? Who left on 'couldn't hit a barn door' Waghorn? Need a goal-poacher leave him on the bench. Play Fozzy at CH after a poor showing, why not Wizzy? Etc, he makes lots of 'odd' decisions.

Plus he's obviously not a 'lucky' manager.

Ooh I must check back because no doubt i’m sure to see that you gave me a like for my team selection. 

[atherstoneram]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

This. Cocu is a dead man walking, a total lame duck manager. 

He does nothing to cultivate the resources in his power - I can't think of any management job where a new incumbent has inherited a dream team of top drawer performers, a large part of the art of being a good manager is coaching and developing your team to get them to the required standard whether it be football or any other managerial role. 

 

What a load of baalocks you spout. Tell me, what team of top performers did he inherit, 3 loanees returned to their patent clubs, older experienced players moving on and then consistent injuries. The team "he inherited" was nowhere near the team which finished last season.

[Finch]

Making it up as he goes along. Clueless.

[IlsonDerby]

Brian Clough in his pomp wouldn’t get anywhere with this bunch. 
 

He’d absolutely gut this squad and start again... 

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, atherstoneram said:

What a load of baalocks you spout. Tell me, what team of top performers did he inherit, 3 loanees returned to their patent clubs, older experienced players moving on and then consistent injuries. The team "he inherited" was nowhere near the team which finished last season.

If you took the time to read my response you would see how you have totally missed the point I was making. 

To reconfirm my original point, as originally stated I cannot think of any manager who has had the luxury of inheriting a team who do not need developing or coaching in some form or another to get them to operate at the required standard, this is the bread and butter of any successful competent manager.

Cocu hasn't had that luxury like a number of managers but what has he done to develop the resources given to him that was my original point. 

[atherstoneram]

10 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

If you took the time to read my response you would see how you have totally missed the point I was making. 

To reconfirm my original point, as originally stated I cannot think of any manager who has had the luxury of inheriting a team who do not need developing or coaching in some form or another to get them to operate at the required standard, this is the bread and butter of any successful competent manager.

Cocu hasn't had that luxury like a number of managers but what has he done to develop the resources given to him that was my original point. 

The prob;em is when he was announced as the new manager his name and experience preceeded him and a lot of fans thought he was going to carry straight on from where FL left off and as others have said FL had the luxury of 3 top class loanees to paper over the cracks, PC hasn't had that luxury, As the old saying goes "you can't teach an old dog new tricks"and that's possibly where the problem lies with the system Cocu is striving to play and are struggling to adapt

I am still firmly in the Cocu "in" camp, once he can get the players in who "he" wants then things will vastly improve

[RoyMac5]

24 minutes ago, mwram1973 said:

Can't agree with this. How could he have known Malone would have given a penalty away so early on, the same player who thousands of fans were singing his name last season.

He left on our top goalscorer, if he had taken him off he would have been criticised too, damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Martins done sod all since his early goals.

?

[RoyMac5]

19 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Ooh I must check back because no doubt i’m sure to see that you gave me a like for my team selection. 

If only I knew what you were on about I'd reply.

[RoyMac5]

22 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

If only I knew what you were on about I'd reply.

What's up with you @Mistaram?

[Jourdan]

7 away defeats from 11 away league games.

The highest number in one league season (23 away games) since we were relegated in 2008 is 13.

We look like we could lose every away game we play at the moment.

At this rate, it’ll be 14 defeats or more in no time at all.

In comparison, we lost 14 away games in the previous two league seasons combined.

I can’t believe how badly Cocu and this group of players are doing.

Spare us, Mel.

[TramRam]

MM has to take his fare share of the flack, The scales are starting move against Cocu, My heart says go, My head says stay.

Phillip Cocu, 05 Jul 2019 Present...Gives an untried Cocu in the Championship a 4 year contract and hopes he can bring playing the Derby way back to Pride Park ? after success and failure at 2 clubs.

Frank Lampard, 31 May 2018...04 Jul 2019...Gives him an opportunity and a huge name in football, A gamble that paid off, Blessed with 3 cracking loanees, Some good some not so good football, DCFC trouser circa £3 million

Gary Rowett, 14 Mar 2017...22 May 2018...Available for free, Rowetts dream job he says, Awfull football but got results, Stoke wave a wad of cash in Rowetts face, DCFC trouser circa £2 million

Steve McClaren, 10 Oct 2016...14 Mar 2017...Amazed he got a 2nd chance, But that went soon enough

Nigel Pearson, 27 May 2016...09 Oct 2016...Sacked as his persona didn't fit with some DCFC people

Darren Wassall, 08 Feb 2016...27 May 2016...Played nice football, But that Rotherham game came back to haunt him

Paul Clement, 01 Jun 2015...08 Feb, 2016...Couldn't play the Derby way...One of the worst quotes in football history.

Steve McClaren, 30 Sep 2013...25 May, 2015...Played the best football I've seen for a while, Newcastle call and he's off

At the minute MM owns DCFC lock stock and 2 smoking barrells, So he'll stand or fall by his Decisions, The Wayne Rooney signing has to be a huge plus as the wages he's being paid either by 32RED or DCFC(in some way)could be a mill stone too far, The full football year of 2020 is a leap into the unknown, Players will be shown the door, Some will be sold, MMs tenure and Cocu's signings could hang in the balance, If results aren't there for the supporters they will stop going or worse still hound out those who make decisions.

 

[LeedsCityRam]

7 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

7 away defeats from 11 away league games.

The highest number in one league season (23 away games) since we were relegated in 2008 is 13.

We look like we could lose every away game we play at the moment.

At this rate, it’ll be 14 defeats or more in no time at all.

In comparison, we lost 14 away games in the previous two league seasons combined.

I can’t believe how badly Cocu and this group of players are doing.

Spare us, Mel.

Can't dispute those stats but what your post is missing is context. The international players we've lost, the Keogh saga, the injuries and the long needed squad overhaul, which Rowett's short termism & Lampard's loans papered over.

I had you down as a bit of a progressive so bit surprised by how adamant you are about wanting a change. Are you certain that a) this is a squad brimful of talent waiting for someone else to ignite a playoff push & b) Cocu wont get it right (given his previous record)?