Cocu in or out?

[Shaftesbury st]

I am confused why people want to blindly walk down this path with Cocu just because we have sacked a few managers previously. 
if we have the wrong man we have the wrong man.

Personally I just don’t see any development here, Malone and Lowe swapping and changing every week, systems changing, late to change things when it’s going wrong. 

whilst I’m not calling for his head I don’t see him taking us forward 

[BriggRam]

It’s getting harder and harder to keep the faith

[LeedsCityRam]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Gosh I can hardly remember that far back. I seem to remember thinking Jim hit lucky with his 'four up front' was it? I thought Billy knew what he was doing in building a team (which he oddly tried to spoil in the Jan window), but didn't know how odd our Billy was! ? 

Yep, Willems (and Sturridge) were crucial even though Stimac gets most of the credit. Would also kill for a Van der Laan now! (Sure he signed after season started)

Always thought Billy was in control of the situation but he inherited a club with very low expectations. After his first 6 months, more money he got, worse the team got!

Guess my point is things dont always seem clear until a team clicks. January is such a crucial month what with Rooney eligible, Shinnie and Clarke potentially back and some reasonable fixtures. I do expect a pick up.

[May Contain Nuts]

14 minutes ago, Shaftesbury st said:

I am confused why people want to blindly walk down this path with Cocu just because we have sacked a few managers previously. 
if we have the wrong man we have the wrong man.

Because it isn't 'blindly' doing anything

It's looking at the bigger picture, the balance of the squad, the injuries, the lack of quality, the need to bring youngsters through, all of it, everything, and concluding that it's not really fair to make a complete judgement and start demanding change.

Talk of getting rid of him at this point is as also 'blindly' thinking someone else would else would make something of this squad.

There's no evidence that this group of players, collectively, with all that's been taken away from it this season, has the ability to do better than it currently is. There's plenty of evidence to the contrary.

A change in manager could just as  easily compound the problems, like it has done before.

[Mostyn6]

2 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Because it isn't 'blindly' doing anything

It's looking at the bigger picture, the balance of the squad, the injuries, the lack of quality, the need to bring youngsters through, all of it, everything, and concluding that it's not really fair to make a complete judgement and start demanding change.

Talk of getting rid of him at this point is as also 'blindly' thinking someone else would else would make something of this squad. A change in manager could just as  easily compound the problems, like it has done before.

Why do you keep mentioning a lack of quality? Which player(s) in this previously successful and once entertaining team do you now think lacks the talent to repeat their previous displays of quality?

[IslandExile]

12 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Why do you keep mentioning a lack of quality? Which player(s) in this previously successful and once entertaining team do you now think lacks the talent to repeat their previous displays of quality?

This is now getting beyond silly.

Please tell me that's a tongue in cheek comment. 

[Gone]

Inherited a dog poo squad with little time to change it. Supposedly star players seemed to be made of paper, the long term club captain decided  it was time to self destruct. Yep all Cocu’s fault, FFS fellow rams fans wake up. Give the bloke 2/3 full transfer windows to put this right. Not even Sir Brian Clough could get a tune out of a team who’s regular starter is Duane Holmes, come on we are in a right mess and Phil needs our full support. COYR’s

[Mostyn6]

9 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

This is now getting beyond silly.

Please tell me that's a tongue in cheek comment. 

Not at all. Genuine question. Who was good enough to get us to Wembley but now isn’t off enough quality to be in the top half. Serious. Im sick of the excuse making. One minute we are missing the players (injured) which will sort us out, then when we are still struggling, its a lack of quality! 
 

Its about time people stopped lying, it’s insulting and insincere. This team is struggling down to lack of philosophy, organisation, motivation and mental desire. Nothing else. 

[Ibby]

It shows he is out of his depth sadly.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

45 minutes ago, Shaftesbury st said:

I am confused why people want to blindly walk down this path with Cocu just because we have sacked a few managers previously. 
if we have the wrong man we have the wrong man.

Personally I just don’t see any development here, Malone and Lowe swapping and changing every week, systems changing, late to change things when it’s going wrong. 

whilst I’m not calling for his head I don’t see him taking us forward 

I think personally he has been dealt a bad hand, he came in late, the team is obviously weaker. I’m not sure Lampard could do much better, we’ve lost Carson Tomori Keogh Wilson Mount. What quality have we gained? Maybe Bielik. As long as we aren’t near the relegation zone then I think we should stick with Cocu. The away record does suggest something is seriously wrong though. I think half this team need to go next summer. 

[G-Ram]

Cocu has been left a poor squad. Its frustrating now but on the positives he's giving some of the youngsters a go, we have Rooney in jan, potential investment coming in and the transfer window opens soon so hopefully cocu will bring in some new faces. Yes results haven't been great but let's give it time. Its easy after bad results to be frustrated & emotions run high & want him out. But I want to give it time. Hopefully he can build a team capable of challenging next season 

[Jourdan]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Good post. I was also one of the few who defended Pearson! Mainly as Leicester fans warned us it'd be weird initially before it clicked.

Just on the highlighted bit, what position would you expect of this squad?

It’s a difficult question to answer.

Preston are currently 4th. Swansea are 6th. Blackburn are 10th.

Do we have less quality in our squad than those teams, even now?

The Championship is a crazy league where an ordinary looking team can go a long way. A good manager or a good run of form can make a difference.

I think we are a top 10 side on balance. The right manager could make us more consistent and more positive and take us higher (5-6th) and the wrong manager could take us lower, as we are seeing with Cocu.

Taking into account the circumstances and Cocu’s lack of experience in the division, we should be 13-14th at worst.

Even Clough could manage 10-12th in this division with a lack of resources and poor players like Sammon and Theo Robinson spearheading his attack.

Whatever way you dress it up, 17th is a long way from most people’s expectations.

[Bubbles]

Not even gonna read half of the poo on this forum. knew the cocu out brigade were going to come out in full force after today.

Give your ducking heads a wobble.

duck sake we played with 10 men for 85 minutes

The ref was also poo as poo comes.

I’m sorry but if you’re actually calling for Cocu’s head when he’s been dealt a tougher hand than any other of our managers than I am lost for words.

If your lives depends on getting promotion quickly this season then go support another team.

Honestly some people are braindead. Saw someone say sack him and bring in bloody Stimac.

I cannot be arsed.

[Pearl Ram]

3 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Give the bloke 2/3 full transfer windows to put this right.

...and this is my concern, Cocu will need more than the January window to get anywhere close to shipping out who he doesn’t rate and replacing them with his kind of player.

Teams at both ends of the Championship (if that’s where any of his targets play) are reluctant to sell their better players as they strive to either earn a top 6 place or avoid relegation.

Ideally, providing  we are not bottom three contenders, I’d like him to at least be given a full summer window and maybe this time next season review our progress or lackthereof.

[LB_DCFC]

10 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Not at all. Genuine question. Who was good enough to get us to Wembley but now isn’t off enough quality to be in the top half. Serious. Im sick of the excuse making. One minute we are missing the players (injured) which will sort us out, then when we are still struggling, its a lack of quality! 
 

Its about time people stopped lying, it’s insulting and insincere. This team is struggling down to lack of philosophy, organisation, motivation and mental desire. Nothing else. 

Of the team that started in that playoff final, only 2 started today, Bogle and Lawrence. That team contained a midfielder and defender now starting in the champions league.

in the games that Mount didn’t start last season (Where our squad is now, minus Tomori and Wilson, too), our record was W2, D4, L3, 10 points in 9 games, which is, over a season, the exact same number of points we are looking at this (52 points)

Where is this quality squad? Because without mount, this set of players has never demonstrated quality, and that team last season still had Wilson and Tomori in it. We're bloody starting Forsyth at centre back because he's our best option!

 

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Even Clough could manage 10-12th in this division with a lack of resources and poor players like Sammon and Theo Robinson spearheading his attack.

Whatever way you dress it up, 17th is a long way from most people’s expectations.

Oh I'd forgotten that. 

[Mostyn6]

2 minutes ago, LB_DCFC said:

Of the team that started in that playoff final, only 2 started today, Bogle and Lawrence. That team contained a midfielder and defender now starting in the champions league.

in the games that Mount didn’t start last season (Where our squad is now, minus Tomori and Wilson, too), our record was W2, D4, L3, 10 points in 9 games, which is, over a season, the exact same number of points we are looking at this (52 points)

Where is this quality squad? Because without mount, this set of players has never demonstrated quality

 

Excuse making. We have been contenders for five seasons, not just last season with Mount & co! 
 

name the players that do not have quality 

[Gone]

2 minutes ago, Pearl Ram said:

...and this is my concern, Cocu will need more than the January window to get anywhere close to shipping out who he doesn’t rate and replacing them with his kind of player.

Teams at both ends of the Championship (if that’s where any of his targets play) are reluctant to sell their better players as they strive to either earn a top 6 place or avoid relegation.

Ideally, providing  we are not bottom three contenders, I’d like him to at least be given a full summer window and maybe this time next season review our progress or lackthereof.

Absolutely he will and we need to be patient, this seasons a write off and none of his doing. If there is no progress this time next year then I agree questions need to be asked. 

[BondJovi]

12 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Not at all. Genuine question. Who was good enough to get us to Wembley but now isn’t off enough quality to be in the top half. Serious. Im sick of the excuse making. One minute we are missing the players (injured) which will sort us out, then when we are still struggling, its a lack of quality! 
 

Its about time people stopped lying, it’s insulting and insincere. This team is struggling down to lack of philosophy, organisation, motivation and mental desire. Nothing else. 

Oh come off it.

The team that got to the play offs is now a distant memory. 7 regular players who got us there are now no longer here. And let us not lie, we scraped into the play offs.

The players left were the supporting cast. The only player in this squad currently who change a game out of nothing is Lawrence. We all know he has forever been incredibly inconsistent.

We were crap without Mount. We haven't covered his or Wilson's goals. Who is going to do that in this team? What midfield we did have has been broken by injuries.

[Nuwtfly]

We are sleepwalking towards relegation at the minute.

There are so many factors that have worked against Cocu so far this season, as we have all noted. But a share of the blame of course lies at his door.

It is in this run of games now that things have to and had to improve. We started that run with a three nil defeat. This is not good enough.

Things need to change and fast because this is getting worrying now.