The Politics Thread 2019

[ariotofmyown]

7 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

These are conspiracy theories. What Arron Banks did was a conspiracy.

Coincidentally, I just came across this new article.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/smash-and-grab-dominic-cummings-democracy

I'd be interested on your take on this. Surely this is a worry to Leavers too?

[Gritstone Ram]

15 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

A No Deal will be bad for the EU. It would be terrible for us, hence it's no good for negotiating.

That's if we were negotiating. Johnson is too lazy to even try. Just wasting time doing rambling election speeches in front of police.

So you are led to believe. Why flog a dead horse or is it a tactical move ? You will never know unless you are my mate who knows everything.

[Gritstone Ram]

11 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Coincidentally, I just came across this new article.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/smash-and-grab-dominic-cummings-democracy

I'd be interested on your take on this. Surely this is a worry to Leavers too?

TBH I don’t believe anything anymore. Like I said The EU wants us to stay put. They will fabricate anything to brainwash you. I’m not falling for it. You may be weak an kak your pants. I’m sure we were in a worse position in 1945 and that’s when my mum was born and she’s done ok for herself.

[uttoxram75]

38 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

TBH I don’t believe anything anymore. Like I said The EU wants us to stay put. They will fabricate anything to brainwash you. I’m not falling for it. You may be weak an kak your pants. I’m sure we were in a worse position in 1945 and that’s when my mum was born and she’s done ok for herself.

Totally agree mate, your mum has grown up in a socialist state like me and my my parents.

I hope the next generation has the same opportunitys that we have had like free education and a NHS.

[Gritstone Ram]

16 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Totally agree mate, your mum has grown up in a socialist state like me and my my parents.

I hope the next generation has the same opportunitys that we have had like free education and a NHS.

I agree @uttoxram75 my mother grew up without a pot to piss in proper Council House hand me down shoes/clothes etc. When she got married and had kids she vowed her kids wouldn’t suffer like she had. She found that Maggie Thatcher supported her and enabled her to work while her kids went to school she prospered and owned her own house. This wasn’t under a socialist government though it was a conservative government that gave her the opportunity.

[1of4]

1 hour ago, Van Gritters said:

I agree @uttoxram75 my mother grew up without a pot to piss in proper Council House hand me down shoes/clothes etc. When she got married and had kids she vowed her kids wouldn’t suffer like she had. She found that Maggie Thatcher supported her and enabled her to work while her kids went to school she prospered and owned her own house. This wasn’t under a socialist government though it was a conservative government that gave her the opportunity.

I, like you, your mother and most of our nations population, irrelevant of who as been in government, have grown up in a socialist society. A society that cares for the old, the sick and the poor. 

Your mother was fortunate that she had a council house to live in. Due to Thatcher's government forcing councils to sell off much of their housing stock, this is something that many families today can only dream of.

[GboroRam]

8 hours ago, Van Gritters said:

I cannot believe so many people are sucked in by the EU establishment I thought these lefties were anti establishment.

Do you honestly think that Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg are who the anti-establishment left should be supporting? Or ex City banker Nigel Farage? 

Brexit isn't about left or right, or class lines. It's about which money men get to make more money. As usual we're scrapping over the crumbs from the table. 

[alexxxxx]

Just think that the way to sort this is by trying to negotiate some EEA agreement, with some restriction on immigration (perhaps a loose permit system, no criminals etc, job offer required before moving, no benefits etc).

Still in single market - no chaos. 

Customs union fudge in Northern Ireland and take GB out the customs Union. 

No more CAP payments, no more shared fisheries.. 

Replacement of the EU contributions to a UK run scheme as a gesture of goodwill (Norway do this). 

Join the EFTA Court instead of the ECJ. 

[Gritstone Ram]

6 hours ago, 1of4 said:

I, like you, your mother and most of our nations population, irrelevant of who as been in government, have grown up in a socialist society. A society that cares for the old, the sick and the poor. 

Your mother was fortunate that she had a council house to live in. Due to Thatcher's government forcing councils to sell off much of their housing stock, this is something that many families today can only dream of.

The council house she had the opportunity to buy and did do.

[Gritstone Ram]

53 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Do you honestly think that Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg are who the anti-establishment left should be supporting? Or ex City banker Nigel Farage? 

Brexit isn't about left or right, or class lines. It's about which money men get to make more money. As usual we're scrapping over the crumbs from the table. 

There is no argument because we aren’t allowed to leave. I will bow out now but mark my words you’ll say he was right.

[1967Ram]

11 hours ago, Van Gritters said:

Yet another EU insider.

Amber Rudd voted for May's withdrawal agreement. She is just not for a no deal BREXIT.

[Gritstone Ram]

1 minute ago, 1967Ram said:

Amber Rudd voted for May's withdrawal agreement. She is just not for a no deal BREXIT.

Yeah Mays deal was only what the EU allowed, can’t you see it? I thought you were intelligent people. We are only allowed to do what the EU want us to do.

[AndyinLiverpool]

8 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

Yeah Mays deal was only what the EU allowed, can’t you see it? I thought you were intelligent people. We are only allowed to do what the EU want us to do.

I simply don’t understand this line of argument. The agreement, whether one supports it or not, was the result of negotiation. As grown ups we all know when entering negotiation that we won’t get everything we want. But we aim for win-win.

What we have now is a government led by 4-year-olds, throwing a massive tantrum because they can’t have what they want. They want everything. They are not interested in win-win. They are so full of hate, their priority seems to be for the other side to lose. 

[i-Ram]

Looks like you Corbynistas can chat amongst yourselves now for a few weeks. The Leavers have left. I am just doing a bit of house tidying before turning the lights out and returning the keys.

[alexxxxx]

25 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

Yeah Mays deal was only what the EU allowed, can’t you see it? I thought you were intelligent people. We are only allowed to do what the EU want us to do.

The withdrawal agreement is a result of UK nonsensensical red lines though.

[GboroRam]

21 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

Yeah Mays deal was only what the EU allowed, can’t you see it? I thought you were intelligent people. We are only allowed to do what the EU want us to do.

Yes, that's what the EU said. A negotiation was had, and an agreement made. They have said they will not renegotiate, but I think they would under the right circumstances. They will not accept an attempt to remove the backstop without a workable alternative being proposed, like May tried multiple times. 

However Boris isn't even trying to renegotiate. He's not interested. It's parliament that won't accept leaving without an agreement. Frankly I think the EU will let us leave with the deal on the table or with no deal. As long as we just get on and do it. 

In fact the EU offered the last extension on the basis we can leave earlier than the 31st, if we want. Boris just needed to tell them. But he chose not to, so you have to think what no deal really means. Nobody wants it, not even Boris. But he's posturing to try to look like he's being tough, but the only bargaining chip he has is a knife to his throat. It's a pretty sad situation. 

Can't understand how it's the EU controlling the situation. Entirely down to parliament. I know you don't like the EU but it's a stretch to pin it on them. 

[McRamFan]

33 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

Yeah Mays deal was only what the EU allowed, can’t you see it? I thought you were intelligent people. We are only allowed to do what the EU want us to do.

Tell me what the EU has forced on to the UK that has been a negative impact?

I have asked that question various times and in various ways, still waiting on the brexiteers to come up with a confirmable fact....won't happen now as they have all quit.

[ariotofmyown]

18 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Looks like you Corbynistas can chat amongst yourselves now for a few weeks. The Leavers have left. I am just doing a bit of house tidying before turning the lights out and returning the keys.

Shame they left in the same week as the leaders of Vote Leave has shown themselves up to be clueless and naive. Think Johnson is ready to throw the towel in and become tv personality. Cummins and Mogg probably fancy a go at ramping up the hate another level. Be interesting/scary to see what they try and do next.

We would have left by now too if the ERG muppets had voted for May's deal. But the EU won't let us leave will they?

It's ridiculous how voting to the leave now means crashing out with a no deal. Total opposite of what the Vote Leave liars told us in the referendum campaign.

It's a big gamble to assume that the 52% who voted leave will also back the Tories in a No Deal. That 52% contains a big non-extreme majority who won't be keen on how Johnson and friends are acting. And they are gonna lose any Tory remainers too. Next election will be fascinating.

[TimRam]

Just my tuppence worth on this. With no-deal still on the table (we do not have to commit to it) we had more bargaining power for Boris to get a better deal from the EU. I doubt some of the French food produce sellers, German car manufactures and other EU businesses want a no-deal. Now this is almost certainly off the table, all we are left with is the rubbish deal May got us. The EU have stressed they will not re-negotiate this.

[alexxxxx]

3 minutes ago, TimRam said:

Just my tuppence worth on this. With no-deal still on the table (we do not have to commit to it) we had more bargaining power for Boris to get a better deal from the EU. I doubt some of the French food produce sellers, German car manufactures and other EU businesses want a no-deal. Now this is almost certainly off the table, all we are left with is the rubbish deal May got us. The EU have stressed they will not re-negotiate this.

Yeah but no one seems to know what this better deal is to look like? A better deal from what way? Some brexiteers don't even seem to know what they want or just ask for things that are completely unworkable in practice. 

What does a better deal look like? 

The withdrawal agreement isn't even the final agreement, it just sets out how uk will leave.