The Politics Thread 2019

[Gritstone Ram]

10 hours ago, McRamFan said:

Another poster who thinks I am a Labour supporter.

Brown becoming PM was a deal that was struck back when  Blair ran, he would be Chancellor and step in when Blair quit. 

It could be said that deal was rubber stamped when the unions voted Blair in, by the biggest majority in modern times.

I would guess that you are either a Liberal Democrat or Scottish National Party maybe a hint of Green.

[GboroRam]

8 hours ago, bcnram said:

Can Comrade Corbyn say anything without reading it? It demonstrates his lack of intellect. 

Public speaking ability is now a sign of intellect? 

I wish he was a better public speaker but he is what he is. Rather have the right message delivered badly than the wrong message delivered well. 

[McRamFan]

1 hour ago, Van Gritters said:

I would guess that you are either a Liberal Democrat or Scottish National Party maybe a hint of Green.

Why Scottish National?

[McRamFan]

11 hours ago, bigbadbob said:

Are all of his investments off shore? and what has he invested in? I might as well get in on the action so if you could fill me in I'd appreciate it. Cheers

You know that you can use the internet to find that information, occasionally it appears on TV.  Just one example.

https://www.channel4.com/press/news/brexiteer-jacob-rees-mogg-estimated-have-earnt-ps7m-investments-referendum-according

Your best bet is invest in gold, but you maybe too late, as price is maxed out for about the next 5 years, however nobody really knows.  All investment is a risk, you may lose money as likely gain.

[Stive Pesley]

53 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

You know that you can use the internet to find that information, occasionally it appears on TV.  Just one example.

https://www.channel4.com/press/news/brexiteer-jacob-rees-mogg-estimated-have-earnt-ps7m-investments-referendum-according

Your best bet is invest in gold, but you maybe too late, as price is maxed out for about the next 5 years, however nobody really knows.  All investment is a risk, you may lose money as likely gain.

You can sign up with a stockbroker and start shorting stocks (essentially borrowing them from your broker, then immediately selling them. Then wait for the stock price to crash and buy them back at the much lower price. Return them to your broker and pocket the difference.)

Obviously this is a much safer bet when you are in a position of power to manipulate the market, via - ooh I don't know - being a politician?

Weirdly this seems to be totally legal and not at all unethical 

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

I wish he was a better public speaker but he is what he is. Rather have the right message delivered badly than the wrong message delivered well

Absolutely. It's sad to read at times. We all seem to agree that politics is broken and too focused on personalities, but then someone comes along who is unlike all the other egotistical preening peacocks, and people revert to type and start saying he's not "ministerial" enough, or not a magnetic enough personality. Go figure

Maybe we just get the politicians we deserve

[Gritstone Ram]

1 hour ago, McRamFan said:

Why Scottish National?

Just thought a name like McRamFan might have a bit of Scottish heritage to them.

[FindernRam]

15 hours ago, 1of4 said:

I thought John Bercow the present Speaker did a good job of keeping order during some very difficult times.

I though he was the cause of most of the disorder with his blatant bias and breaking of all the conventions that have held parliament together for decades. Worst speaker in my 55 years of following politics.

[bcnram]

3 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Public speaking ability is now a sign of intellect? 

I wish he was a better public speaker but he is what he is. Rather have the right message delivered badly than the wrong message delivered well. 

I agree, problem is it is the wrong message delivered badly. A disaster in the making. 

[1of4]

2 hours ago, FindernRam said:

I though he was the cause of most of the disorder with his blatant bias and breaking of all the conventions that have held parliament together for decades. Worst speaker in my 55 years of following politics.

What laws of Parliament did he break? I'm sure the forces behind the ERG would have found it and had him removed from office.

[Highgate]

So Johnson can't get his snap election, he can't brexit with no deal without breaking the law and he can't ask for another extension from the EU without getting hammered by the electorate. Is betraying the DUP rapidly becoming his only option?

We are 21 days into the 30 agreed with Merkel to produce realistic solutions to the border issue and remove the necessity for the problematic backstop. Unsurprisingly it appears no progress is being made in that regard.

With the DUP no longer propping up his government and unlikely to do so after the next election maybe Johnson will now consider reverting to the N.Ireland only backstop. He could then repackage May's deal the backstop removed (for Britain), which the EU would readily accept. Coupled with offering to reinstate the sacked Tories, that may be enough to get Brexit through parliament by Oct 31. He could then face the electorate as the PM who delivered Brexit in any subsequent election. 

The DUP have informed their voters that Johnson has assured them that he won't betray them in such a manner. How much is his word worth? I know I wouldn't like to be depending on it.

[Bwash_Ram]

[Stive Pesley]

3 minutes ago, Highgate said:

So Johnson can't get his snap election, he can't brexit with no deal without breaking the law and he can't ask for another extension from the EU without getting hammered by the electorate. Is betraying the DUP rapidly becoming his only option?

We are 21 days into the 30 agreed with Merkel to produce realistic solutions to the border issue and remove the necessity for the problematic backstop. Unsurprisingly it appears no progress is being made in that regard.

With the DUP no longer propping up his government and unlikely to do so after the next election maybe Johnson will now consider reverting to the N.Ireland only backstop. He could then repackage May's deal the backstop removed (for Britain), which the EU would readily accept. Coupled with offering to reinstate the sacked Tories, that may be enough to get Brexit through parliament by Oct 31. He could then face the electorate as the PM who delivered Brexit in any subsequent election. 

The DUP have informed their voters that Johnson has assured them that he won't betray them in such a manner. How much is his word worth? I know I wouldn't like to be depending on it.

It's looking increasingly like the only realistic option open to him. Unless he resigns - which I doubt he will. He needs to make it to November 20th to avoid going down in history as the UKs shortest serving Prime Minister.

When the election date is set - if it's Thursday November 21st - then you know why

[AndyinLiverpool]

17 minutes ago, Highgate said:

So Johnson can't get his snap election, he can't brexit with no deal without breaking the law and he can't ask for another extension from the EU without getting hammered by the electorate. Is betraying the DUP rapidly becoming his only option?

We are 21 days into the 30 agreed with Merkel to produce realistic solutions to the border issue and remove the necessity for the problematic backstop. Unsurprisingly it appears no progress is being made in that regard.

With the DUP no longer propping up his government and unlikely to do so after the next election maybe Johnson will now consider reverting to the N.Ireland only backstop. He could then repackage May's deal the backstop removed (for Britain), which the EU would readily accept. Coupled with offering to reinstate the sacked Tories, that may be enough to get Brexit through parliament by Oct 31. He could then face the electorate as the PM who delivered Brexit in any subsequent election. 

The DUP have informed their voters that Johnson has assured them that he won't betray them in such a manner. How much is his word worth? I know I wouldn't like to be depending on it.

They have had unprecedented access to power for the last couple of years. It's about time they were thrown where they belong. Out into the cold.

If Johnson continues the current policy of sucking up to them, he will basically be saying that the opinion of a niche party from a region that voted to remain is more important than the voices of the remainers he wants to ignore. That's not a tenable position from someone who professes to want to unite the country. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

16 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

It's looking increasingly like the only realistic option open to him. Unless he resigns - which I doubt he will. He needs to make it to November 20th to avoid going down in history as the UKs shortest serving Prime Minister.

When the election date is set - if it's Thursday November 21st - then you know why

He's likely to win an election on that date. We are so utterly and completely ducked up.

[Stive Pesley]

26 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

He's likely to win an election on that date. We are so utterly and completely ducked up.

Depending on what has transpired on Brexit by that point - you may be right

I think we will see an unprecedented level of electoral pacts in marginal constituencies being made at the next election (proving once and for all that FPTP is no longer fit for purpose)

[Ghost of Clough]

17 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Depending on what has transpired on Brexit by that point - you may be right

I think we will see an unprecedented level of electoral pacts in marginal constituencies being made at the next election (proving once and for all that FPTP is no longer fit for purpose)

Definitely. although if the EU elections were anything to go by, I can only see it going one way in the end.

I can see the Brexit Party allowing the Tories to be the only standing leave party in most constituencies - heavy anti-tory ones being the exception. Whereas, I can't see Labour or Lib Dems doing the same in as many consistencies.

[TuffLuff]

2 hours ago, 1of4 said:

What laws of Parliament did he break? I'm sure the forces behind the ERG would have found it and had him removed from office.

Not sure he broke the rules, although Leadsom has accused him. I think the article below from Ian Dunt probably sums it up in that the government bent parliamentary rules, so he also bent them the to ensure Parliament couldn’t be sidelined. Which he was entirely correct to do so, the speaker represents the house and not the Government.

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/09/09/bercow-resignation-he-was-the-right-man-in-the-right-place-a

[Stive Pesley]

Well this is interesting

If the official analysis of a no-deal is so terrible that more people would realise it was awful and want to stop Brexit - why would so may politicians be hell bent on the narrative of "it's what people want, so we must get on with it"?

 

[TuffLuff]

1 minute ago, SchtivePesley said:

Well this is interesting

If the official analysis of a no-deal is so terrible that more people would realise it was awful and want to stop Brexit - why would so may politicians be hell bent on the narrative of "it's what people want, so we must get on with it"?

 

It’s also interesting to me that Dominic Grieve’s motion which passed yesterday has been completely ignored by the press today. Don’t get me wrong they could be nothing there (or some crafty covering up) but I don’t think he would have brought the motion forward without hard evidence, also isn’t the deadline for them to provide the evidence tomorrow?

[alexxxxx]

4 hours ago, Highgate said:

So Johnson can't get his snap election, he can't brexit with no deal without breaking the law and he can't ask for another extension from the EU without getting hammered by the electorate. Is betraying the DUP rapidly becoming his only option?

We are 21 days into the 30 agreed with Merkel to produce realistic solutions to the border issue and remove the necessity for the problematic backstop. Unsurprisingly it appears no progress is being made in that regard.

With the DUP no longer propping up his government and unlikely to do so after the next election maybe Johnson will now consider reverting to the N.Ireland only backstop. He could then repackage May's deal the backstop removed (for Britain), which the EU would readily accept. Coupled with offering to reinstate the sacked Tories, that may be enough to get Brexit through parliament by Oct 31. He could then face the electorate as the PM who delivered Brexit in any subsequent election. 

The DUP have informed their voters that Johnson has assured them that he won't betray them in such a manner. How much is his word worth? I know I wouldn't like to be depending on it.

I suspect this is the outcome. He goes back to Brussels gets some small concession / small change and brings it back for a vote. 

What could happen is that the EU refuse to budge on the agreed deal until a General election on the fear that nothing will be ratified by Parliament.