BathRam72 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Rample said: No, because although it didn't work out due to one error in the playoff final he got us that far when we we're struggling beforehand, and more importantly showed after the previous years of drudgery there was something more and it was attainable. You can't blame him for any muck ups whilst he wasn't in charge, after we took the decision to get rid (not that I'm saying that was wrong) we also chose what happened next, and failed to capitalise on where we were by employing managers afte each departure with totally opposing philosophies toward the style of football we were to play. Although I do believe there was probably a lot of 'Yes Mel' going on in Clement's interview, I think Rowett came to stabilise things, make us more resilient, and tighten the budget, purposely drawing an end to the attacking style in the hope we would be more successful. Wasn't this what Clough (Jnr) was bought in to do? Have we slipped back a few years in the prospects department? I think not, I feel that Gary has inherited at least 5 managers worth of players, a very tight budget and a mandate to stabilise, then push on. This will take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said: Why do you think McClaren was better than George Burley? Burley inherited a far worse position/squad, had no money at all, was dealing with the 3 Amigos but achieved the same as McClaren, in terms of a playoff defeat. His teams also played very entertaining football (once we started winning) But let was great but I just loved our style of playing with the particular set of players we had under mac1's tenure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 4 hours ago, sunnyhill60 said: Better to be stuck in the past than stuck with Rowettball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 16 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: When is out fanbase on here going to stop looking back to McClaren? Dunno................................................................................... after Mac3? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssendonRam Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 On 03/05/2018 at 20:48, curtains said: We are talking Premier League. We have not got there for a long time. You do realise that this directly undermines your own point, don’t you? If we’d been a fixture in the Premiership, then not getting us back there could be seen to be a failure. Say, like Villa...or Newcastle last season... Not when you’ve won 11 points in the Premiership in 15 seasons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssendonRam Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 On 03/05/2018 at 22:49, Mr Giggles said: The thing with McClaren was that he was in a way a major part of his demise here. He was the one that raised our expectations to where they are now, as soon as he couldn't keep that up consistently (as in keeping us in and around the top 2) he was gone. This has partly been carried on with Rowett when he got us to second and now look at some of the backlash. He is also contributing to the toxic nature of the fans even now, because we were once a dominant team, we are expecting to be up there almost all of the time. It damaging the core of the club. We have been signings quick fixes for a push at promotion rather than building for future years. Would I deem McClaren a failure? Not at all, he made us believe again, something that hasn't been recaptured since his departure. However I am fully backing Rowett and I do believe he is the right man to take us forward, and I know many will disagree but that is how I feel. Would I take McClaren back? That is a question for another day. Literally. After a record-challenging series of results, our form dropped off (as it inevitably must) and he was gone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 On 03/05/2018 at 11:35, RoyMac5 said: I think that some don't want to admit how good our football was and how much better we might have become. predictable:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 On 03/05/2018 at 17:05, Cam the Ram said: If those two couldn't break through this season when we were in such a poor run of form, I doubt their chances of breaking through next season when we have the same group of players (not many contracts expiring) and whoever else he decides to sign in as well So easy to forget it was the experienced players who did so well no magnificently to beat high flying cardiff then hold Villa at villa park to get us within touching distance of the play offs then who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 11 minutes ago, TommyPowel said: So easy to forget it was the experienced players who did so well no magnificently to beat high flying cardiff then hold Villa at villa park to get us within touching distance of the play offs then who knows When did beating Cardiff become a magnificent feat, they are a bunch of players assembled for a lot less than our squad and some that have been deemed surplus to requirements by others. Had it not been our inability to beat teams doomed for relegation, and lying down and accepting defeat at others, beating Cardiff would have been as is should have been, a good but expected home win. Let’s face it, we are in the second tier of football, and hailing a win against a team that was fighting relegation last season. A magnificent performance would sure have to be the demolition of Brighton that season, maybe if we get a change in the play offs, we will see a performance or result worthy of that term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixman1884 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Obviously this a very subjective question, and really comes down to how we define what success/failure is at a club. If "failing to reach the Premier league in a season and a half, while reigniting the belief and passion of some 30,000+ fans, packing the stadium, breaking records and delivering some of the most entertaining match days in decade while spending less than every manager that follows" is classed as failure, then yes. He was a failure. Absolute failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Yes he was a failure, his job remit was to get us promoted, he didn’t so he failed, just like so many before and after him i am afraid.... King Billy on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth's left foot Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Nigel was the right man at the right time but wouldn’t have got us promoted. SM was then the right man at the right time and the football/entertainment was brilliant. He shouldn’t have been sacked the second time, I would have him back in a heartbeat ideally with Chris Powell by his side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I would say definitely not. He took a midtable team and turned them into genuine contenders. You only have to look at how many players improved under him to see what impact he had. It makes me laugh when I see Ipswich fans turn their nose up at him, especially when you consider his record at this level with us - especially as it wasn't like he spent a fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 26 minutes ago, Ambitious said: I would say definitely not. He took a midtable team and turned them into genuine contenders. You only have to look at how many players improved under him to see what impact he had. It makes me laugh when I see Ipswich fans turn their nose up at him, especially when you consider his record at this level with us - especially as it wasn't like he spent a fortune. In my opinion it was the club that failed mclaren not the other way round. He's a brilliant coach. So the support structures of recruitment, commercials needed to be built in such a way as to maximise his coaching time and opportunity . Instead we got Sam. And Chris Evans. Opportunity missed in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 35 minutes ago, HantsRam said: In my opinion it was the club that failed mclaren not the other way round. He's a brilliant coach. So the support structures of recruitment, commercials needed to be built in such a way as to maximise his coaching time and opportunity . Instead we got Sam. And Chris Evans. Opportunity missed in my view. As I said in earlier post I think McClaren first time around was best manager since Jim Smith, no doubt, and he was also a huge part of our success under Smith in the 90s. But, Rush brought McClaren in, without him it might not have happened, you could argue Rush then failed him but Chris Evans was 100% McClaren’s man, he brought him in for recruitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 2 hours ago, MuespachRam said: Yes he was a failure, his job remit was to get us promoted, he didn’t so he failed, just like so many before and after him i am afraid.... King Billy on the other hand... not sure this is accurate! Would he have been expected to get us promoted in 2013/14? I doubt it, taking over from NC with us sitting in 14th. The next season, I believe they started the usual 2/3 year plan. The second time, I would say his remit was to get us away from relegation. His remit was to revive the club twice, he succeeded twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 1 hour ago, BramcoteRam84 said: As I said in earlier post I think McClaren first time around was best manager since Jim Smith, no doubt, and he was also a huge part of our success under Smith in the 90s. But, Rush brought McClaren in, without him it might not have happened, you could argue Rush then failed him but Chris Evans was 100% McClaren’s man, he brought him in for recruitment. You've laid bare my point about the apparent dysfunctional nature of the club and it's power structures. McClaren was the head coach in his first stint. That was his job title I think. As such, whilst he may have influence, decisions on staff hires are not his. Or should not be. It should always be the responsibility of the ceo to assemble the right team - having had a clear vision for the objectives and responsibilities that needed discharging. Steve should have had the right to be consulted. But that's all. Consultation doesn't mean that your views are automatically acted on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owd miner Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Players were the failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 My brother-in-law (QPR fan) reckons there are strong rumours that he'll be taking over from Holloway on the summer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Not sure on the point of this thread, he is no longer here and its a topic that has been done to death now. His second season, yes it was a failure, we should have been promoted that season without a doubt, we ended the season with a home drubbing by reading which took us out the top 6. Was it all his fault? No, of course not...Very few teams could manage with the number of injuries we had, especially to the key players we had, anyone remember JR having to play the loan striker role? Warnock playing the holding midfielder role? It was nothing to do with the Newcastle speculation, and I know I am like a broken record because I have said that so many times. But irrespective of why we failed, we still failed, and as Manager you have to take some responsibility for that, was it not having a Plan B? Probably, but then we didn't have the Squad for that Plan B (Look how crap we were when Pearson tried to get us to play differently). Still think had he not been sacked we would have gone up the following season....no way of proving or disproving though. Time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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