Was Steve McClaren ultimately a failure at DCFC

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, curtains said:

Was he a success then 

No ultimately he failed to get us promotion 

Your metric is clearly promotion. That's fair enough. Mine isn't. That's also fair enough.

His level of success, wins ratio and quality of football surpass any recent manager so if you're implying he's a failure, I beg to differ.

[Cam the Ram]

1 minute ago, curtains said:

But his signings fee wise are restricted because of past mistakes which are causing FFP issues right or wrong 

Wrong, in my opinion. Sure he had less to spend than Clement did, but he chose to sign fairly old players with that money. I see us signing Jerome for 1.5 mil, who yes, is starting to come good, but won't fetch much money if sold in the future. Then I see Brentford signing Ollie Watkins for a few hundred thousand more than that, who will almost certainly be sold on for more in the future and is on probably half of Jerome's wages. I'm questioning why we can't sign players like that? We've signed players with promotion experience and know how instead of taking a gamble on younger lower league talents, yet we still managed to free-fall down the league with these experienced heads

[Alph]

28 minutes ago, curtains said:

But we may smash Fulham.

We will see 

And what will that prove?? Nothing. Its an individual result. Burnley smashed Chelsea. Basel beat Man City. Anyone can beat anyone. It proves nothing 

24 minutes ago, curtains said:

Was he a success then 

No ultimately he failed to get us promotion 

Was Jim Smith a success? No, he ultimately didn't win the PL

Was Brian Clough a success? No, he ultimately didn't win the European Cup

Was Pep a success this season? No, he ultimately didn't win the Champions League

Was Klopp a success this season. No. He ultimately didn't win the Premier League.

Was Warnock a success? No he ultimately failed to win the league

Was Rowett a success? Well his whole Derby career rests on the result of Barnsley and the possible games after. Should he lose them then he's a failure. If he wins them he's a success. All the other 60 games are irrelevant to how the team will develop. 1 season is all that matters

Come on, get some sense of perspective. Derby were nowhere near promotion until Mac came in. It only became a target because he made it a target. 

Jim Smith finished 8th and 9th in the PL. Is that what we call success? No trophies and 9th in the league? See, I'd call that a successful season but I'm more interested in what you think. You guys who call anything less than promotion a failure. How can you claim 9th in a league is success. Its barely above average? No?

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, Alpha said:

And what will that prove?? Nothing. Its an individual result. Burnley smashed Chelsea. Basel beat Man City. Anyone can beat anyone. It proves nothing 

Was Jim Smith a success? No, he ultimately didn't win the PL

Was Brian Clough a success? No, he ultimately didn't win the European Cup

Was Pep a success this season? No, he ultimately didn't win the Champions League

Was Klopp a success this season. No. He ultimately didn't win the Premier League.

Was Warnock a success? No he ultimately failed to win the league

Was Rowett a success? Well his whole Derby career rests on the result of Barnsley and the possible games after. Should he lose them then he's a failure 

Come on, get some sense of perspective. Derby were nowhere near promotion until Mac came in. It only became a target because he made it a target. 

Jim Smith finished 8th and 9th in the PL. Is that what we call success? No trophies and 9th in the league? See, I'd call that a successful season but I'm more interested in what you think. You guys who call anything less than promotion a failure.

What is it about McClaren that rocks your boat. 

He ain’t coming back. 

Where is he now is anybody going to take a punt on him. 

[Curtains]

15 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

Wrong, in my opinion. Sure he had less to spend than Clement did, but he chose to sign fairly old players with that money. I see us signing Jerome for 1.5 mil, who yes, is starting to come good, but won't fetch much money if sold in the future. Then I see Brentford signing Ollie Watkins for a few hundred thousand more than that, who will almost certainly be sold on for more in the future and is on probably half of Jerome's wages. I'm questioning why we can't sign players like that? We've signed players with promotion experience and know how instead of taking a gamble on younger lower league talents, yet we still managed to free-fall down the league with these experienced heads

Thought the academy was going to be the younger players we require or at least that’s what I’m told. 

Are you saying the academy is a waste of time 

Young players learn from experienced players don’t they. 

[Curtains]

18 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Your metric is clearly promotion. That's fair enough. Mine isn't. That's also fair enough.

His level of success, wins ratio and quality of football surpass any recent manager so if you're implying he's a failure, I beg to differ.

Of course promotion is a guide to success or failure otherwise what’s the point. 

The Championship brings in no money and it’s not sustainable for DCFC being there without Mels subsidies 

[Comrade 86]

I think on balance Rowett has done ok and a place in the play-offs would cement that opinion. I think on balance, Mac achieved more given on any other day than that fateful Wembley appearance, we'd have been heading to the Premiership.

What I can't understand is why so many folk on here feel they can't give credit to both. You want to cite a failure for comparison, you need look no further than Pearson. 

[Cam the Ram]

Just now, curtains said:

Thought the academy was going to be the younger players we require or at least that’s what I’m told. 

Are you saying the academy is a waste of time 

Young players learn from experienced players don’t they. 

The academy is a waste of time if Gary doesn't wish to use any of them, yes. We had a period of 15 or so games in awful form and he continued to play the experienced players who were playing poorly. What good is it for the likes of Thomas to be around the first team squad, see players ahead of him like Lawrence playing poorly, but continue to start because Rowett doesn't trust Thomas to step up. Even when Lawrence was out injured he used Johnson and a previously 'out in the cold' Anya rather than Thomas. Not sure how all this relates to me wishing we targeted someone like Watkins over Jerome but still, there's my reply to your comments 

[Comrade 86]

9 minutes ago, curtains said:

Of course promotion is a guide to success or failure otherwise what’s the point. 

The Championship brings in no money and it’s not sustainable for DCFC being there without Mels subsidies 

So clearly you'll be up for sacking Rowett if we don't go up then?

[Cam the Ram]

1 minute ago, 86 points said:

So clearly you'll be up for sacking Rowett if we don't go up then?

McClaren was gone after failing to go up after his 1st full season in charge, so it's only right Rowett goes to if we don't go up. We don't want to keep a failure 

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

The academy is a waste of time if Gary doesn't wish to use any of them, yes. We had a period of 15 or so games in awful form and he continued to play the experienced players who were playing poorly. What good is it for the likes of Thomas to be around the first team squad, see players ahead of him like Lawrence playing poorly, but continue to start because Rowett doesn't trust Thomas to step up. Even when Lawrence was out injured he used Johnson and a previously 'out in the cold' Anya rather than Thomas. Not sure how all this relates to me wishing we targeted someone like Watkins over Jerome but still, there's my reply to your comments 

Rowett has praised Luke Thomas and Bogle and is saying they are the future and will benefit from being integrated into first team practices and travelling and training this season with them. 

He said next season some will break through 

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, 86 points said:

So clearly you'll be up for sacking Rowett if we don't go up then?

If we don’t make it this season or next maybe Mel might have a rethink and what wrong with that. 

I personally would have no say in that as ever. 

[Comrade 86]

2 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

McClaren was gone after failing to go up after his 1st full season in charge, so it's only right Rowett goes to if we don't go up. We don't want to keep a failure 

It's so simplistic innit! 

Just now, curtains said:

If we don’t make it this season or next maybe Mel might have a rethink and what wrong with that. 

I personally would have no say in that as ever. 

Well, if no promotion equates to failure then I guess Rowett will be a failure too if he doesn't secure promotion. You can't have it both ways pal.

[Alph]

6 minutes ago, curtains said:

What is it about McClaren that rocks your boat. 

He ain’t coming back. 

Where is he now is anybody going to take a punt on him. 

He took my team that was getting a bored slipping attendance at home and a dead attendance away and never won more games than they lost and created a team that won games, thrilled neutrals and got the media talking about MY team. Boring Derby suddenly getting hype. We were on TV more. Crowds began to grow. Since I Was Young rocked Pride Park and it was belting out from thousands of away fans where previously only a few hundred went.

He took that team to Wembley. We, maybe not you, went there full of belief. On top of the world. Last May the play offs were a daydream. Now we're in the final and nobody can stop our young, hungry team. Young players carving out a bright future.

We lost. It hurt.

But the sense of hope was still there. That team that thrilled us in the rain v Brighton. That gave us a scoreline of 5-0 to rub in our neighbours nose. That team didn't die. It lost a match

And every week of the next season I looked forward to each game. And when we hit a bad run it hurt. But I had seen what this team could do. If you can do something once then it's not impossible. So even after losing to Reading 3-0 I wiped away the hurt and was prepared to go again. And again. And again if necessary until the young hungry team looked truly defeated.

Then Mel sacked him.

Then as Pearson was serving the negative dross up that had us on the arse of the league. As his egotistical rantings were getting to the point of a Lego head explosion in came Mac and hinted that the team hadn't died. It just needed some TLC. Because he got me and all you lot that slag him off talking about the play offs when the conversation could have been about survival. 

I think back to a time where other fans and media were describing us as a very dangerous opponent and I feel proud still

That's what rocks my boat. What rocks yours to keep mentioning more than I do?

No he isn't coming back. Which is unfortunate because this boring ***** can be seen on a park.

Where is he now? I don't know, never looked. I bet you know? That's odd don't you think?

But I couldn't give a toss. I don't care where McClaren is, whether Martin scores or if Ince wins world footballer of the year. I don't know these people. I don't follow them. I follow Derby. I'm interested in who serves Derby best. And McClaren did. So I don't listen to ******** made up history and ******** levelled at him that I could aim at anyone from Rowett to Mourinho

[Curtains]

5 minutes ago, 86 points said:

It's so simplistic innit! 

Well, if no promotion equates to failure then I guess Rowett will be a failure too if he doesn't secure promotion. You can't have it both ways pal.

But he needs time I’ve said that. 

How long did McClaren get in 2 spells 

The days have gone of Wenger and Ferguson 

[Cam the Ram]

6 minutes ago, curtains said:

Rowett has praised Luke Thomas and Bogle and is saying they are the future and will benefit from being integrated into first team practices and travelling and training this season with them. 

He said next season some will break through 

If those two couldn't break through this season when we were in such a poor run of form, I doubt their chances of breaking through next season when we have the same group of players (not many contracts expiring) and whoever else he decides to sign in as well

[Curtains]

5 minutes ago, Alpha said:

He took my team that was getting a bored slipping attendance at home and a dead attendance away and never won more games than they lost and created a team that won games, thrilled neutrals and got the media talking about MY team. Boring Derby suddenly getting hype. We were on TV more. Crowds began to grow. Since I Was Young rocked Pride Park and it was belting out from thousands of away fans where previously only a few hundred went.

He took that team to Wembley. We, maybe not you, went there full of belief. On top of the world. Last May the play offs were a daydream. Now we're in the final and nobody can stop our young, hungry team. Young players carving out a bright future.

We lost. It hurt.

But the sense of hope was still there. That team that thrilled us in the rain v Brighton. That gave us a scoreline of 5-0 to rub in our neighbours nose. That team didn't die. It lost a match

And every week of the next season I looked forward to each game. And when we hit a bad run it hurt. But I had seen what this team could do. If you can do something once then it's not impossible. So even after losing to Reading 3-0 I wiped away the hurt and was prepared to go again. And again. And again if necessary until the young hungry team looked truly defeated.

Then Mel sacked him.

Then as Pearson was serving the negative dross up that had us on the arse of the league. As his egotistical rantings were getting to the point of a Lego head explosion in came Mac and hinted that the team hadn't died. It just needed some TLC. Because he got me and all you lot that slag him off talking about the play offs when the conversation could have been about survival. 

I think back to a time where other fans and media were describing us as a very dangerous opponent and I feel proud still

That's what rocks my boat. What rocks yours to keep mentioning more than I do?

No he isn't coming back. Which is unfortunate because this boring ***** can be seen on a park.

Where is he now? I don't know, never looked. I bet you know? That's odd don't you think?

But I couldn't give a toss. I don't care where McClaren is, whether Martin scores or if Ince wins world footballer of the year. I don't know these people. I don't follow them. I follow Derby. I'm interested in who serves Derby best. And McClaren did. So I don't listen to ******** made up history and ******** levelled at him that I could aim at anyone from Rowett to Mourinho

You have it your way. 

I don’t agree sorry. 

 

[Comrade 86]

4 minutes ago, curtains said:

But he needs time I’ve said that. 

How long did McClaren get in 2 spells 

Give it a rest - he got us to Wembley isr season for god's sake. We get it, you don't rate him. Move on!

[Curtains]

4 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

If those two couldn't break through this season when we were in such a poor run of form, I doubt their chances of breaking through next season when we have the same group of players (not many contracts expiring) and whoever else he decides to sign in as well

Elsnik and Guy will hopefully be better after loans next season 

[Curtains]

Just now, 86 points said:

Give it a rest - he got us to Wembley isr season for god's sake. We get it, you don't rate him. Move on!

That’s pathetic because no one moves on from slagging Rowett do they.