Will Hughes Watch

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Oh, Will.....

[GadFly]

On 11/21/2017 at 07:04, David said:

Interesting how when Derby sell players we talk about the fee without the addons, Hughes £4/4.5m not £8m.

When talking about players we’ve signed, addons are included, Tom Lawrence for example is £7m not £5m.

No idea which is the right way to look at the fees, without knowing what those addons are and how realistic it is they will be triggered the addons to £8m for Hughes may never be received.

Something I’ve noticed anyhow that it’s one rule for incomings and one for outgoings.

I've noticed the exact opposite to be honest. 

[Highgate]

2 hours ago, GadFly said:

I've noticed the exact opposite to be honest. 

What probably happens a lot of the time is that poster picks the version of the fee paid or received that suits their argument at that time.

What ever fee is quoted for Will's sale.....it's only a small fraction of what the Derby should have been asking, for a young player with such obvious talents.

[GboroRam]

4 hours ago, Highgate said:

What probably happens a lot of the time is that poster picks the version of the fee paid or received that suits their argument at that time.

What ever fee is quoted for Will's sale.....it's only a small fraction of what the Derby should have been asking, for a young player with such obvious talents.

People have picked, and always will pick, the figure that suits their argument best. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

12 hours ago, ronnieronalde said:

Here's a controversial view for you. I rarely get provocative when I'm posting about Derby but I can't let this lie.

This thread is one of those that makes me realise just how much I was banging my head against a brick wall with certain posters, I've said for ages there are those who can judge a player and those who can't. 

I've spent the last 7 years on this forum having to bite my tongue, sometimes being honest enough to say to someone you don't have a clue, then getting slated for it, got into rows with those same posters who think they know what they're talking about. Got banned for having a row with Bris when he posted (amongst other things) that Jeff Hendrick was a league one player who would drift into obscurity. Having to waste my time actually coming up with reasons why he was wrong. Having to sit and read comments from posters like him trying to convince me I'm wrong and they're right., in fact not only are they right but they're footballing guru's who should be working in the game.

Wanting to be direct in saying "you've not got a clue" but knowing if I'm too direct it'll result in all hell breaking loose.

Trying to tell me Will Hughes wasn't a player. Trying to tell me he'd lost his ability and had gone backwards.

I wish I could me more honest with my posts. I wish that from now on when I saw a poster spouting a stupid opinion on a player I could point them back to threads like this about Will, threads like this about Jeff, threads like this about football in general.

I've said for years now that 80% of football fans are duck eggs who wouldn't know a player if it hit them in the face.

Will Hughes being a shining example of that.

I wish in future I could just say what's on my mind and not have to justify my views to the occasional numpty who if were in a pub I'd stop talking football to in about 3 minutes when it became clear they knew nowt.

Will Hughes will play for England, said it since he was 16, no reason to change my mind at any point since then. Will Hughes is great I love him. 

My (and a few others to be fair) football knowledge is great, I love me :-)

[G STAR RAM]

21 hours ago, ronnieronalde said:

Here's a controversial view for you. I rarely get provocative when I'm posting about Derby but I can't let this lie.

This thread is one of those that makes me realise just how much I was banging my head against a brick wall with certain posters, I've said for ages there are those who can judge a player and those who can't. 

I've spent the last 7 years on this forum having to bite my tongue, sometimes being honest enough to say to someone you don't have a clue, then getting slated for it, got into rows with those same posters who think they know what they're talking about. Got banned for having a row with Bris when he posted (amongst other things) that Jeff Hendrick was a league one player who would drift into obscurity. Having to waste my time actually coming up with reasons why he was wrong. Having to sit and read comments from posters like him trying to convince me I'm wrong and they're right., in fact not only are they right but they're footballing guru's who should be working in the game.

Wanting to be direct in saying "you've not got a clue" but knowing if I'm too direct it'll result in all hell breaking loose.

Trying to tell me Will Hughes wasn't a player. Trying to tell me he'd lost his ability and had gone backwards.

I wish I could me more honest with my posts. I wish that from now on when I saw a poster spouting a stupid opinion on a player I could point them back to threads like this about Will, threads like this about Jeff, threads like this about football in general.

I've said for years now that 80% of football fans are duck eggs who wouldn't know a player if it hit them in the face.

Will Hughes being a shining example of that.

I wish in future I could just say what's on my mind and not have to justify my views to the occasional numpty who if were in a pub I'd stop talking football to in about 3 minutes when it became clear they knew nowt.

Will Hughes will play for England, said it since he was 16, no reason to change my mind at any point since then. Will Hughes is great I love him. 

My (and a few others to be fair) football knowledge is great, I love me :-)

Hughes is probably the best player I had seen in a Derby shirt, or certainly the most talented. 

That being said though, I was worried that his career was stagnating at Derby.

Let's be honest better player than him have completely dropped off the radar before.

Glad he's getting his chance now in the Premier League. If he's going to play for England there is no better time while Southgate in charge!

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

9 hours ago, BurtonRam7 said:

Spot on  @BurtonRam7 and @ronnieronalde 100% agree with you both. 

As for young Will, he and England IMHO is an inevitability the lad is top class both on and off the pitch.

I personally enjoy watching him in the Premier League (with a heavy heart that it’s not with us) but proud all the same. It’s like watching one of your kids grow and flourish right before your very eyes. 

 

[BathRam72]

22 hours ago, ronnieronalde said:

Here's a controversial view for you. I rarely get provocative when I'm posting about Derby but I can't let this lie.

This thread is one of those that makes me realise just how much I was banging my head against a brick wall with certain posters, I've said for ages there are those who can judge a player and those who can't. 

I've spent the last 7 years on this forum having to bite my tongue, sometimes being honest enough to say to someone you don't have a clue, then getting slated for it, got into rows with those same posters who think they know what they're talking about. Got banned for having a row with Bris when he posted (amongst other things) that Jeff Hendrick was a league one player who would drift into obscurity. Having to waste my time actually coming up with reasons why he was wrong. Having to sit and read comments from posters like him trying to convince me I'm wrong and they're right., in fact not only are they right but they're footballing guru's who should be working in the game.

Wanting to be direct in saying "you've not got a clue" but knowing if I'm too direct it'll result in all hell breaking loose.

Trying to tell me Will Hughes wasn't a player. Trying to tell me he'd lost his ability and had gone backwards.

I wish I could me more honest with my posts. I wish that from now on when I saw a poster spouting a stupid opinion on a player I could point them back to threads like this about Will, threads like this about Jeff, threads like this about football in general.

I've said for years now that 80% of football fans are duck eggs who wouldn't know a player if it hit them in the face.

Will Hughes being a shining example of that.

I wish in future I could just say what's on my mind and not have to justify my views to the occasional numpty who if were in a pub I'd stop talking football to in about 3 minutes when it became clear they knew nowt.

Will Hughes will play for England, said it since he was 16, no reason to change my mind at any point since then. Will Hughes is great I love him. 

My (and a few others to be fair) football knowledge is great, I love me :-)
 

 

 

To be fair, this is a forum and people will always have their own opinion. Some you will agree with and some you won't.

That is what makes a forum. If everyone agreed it would be a very boring place.

However to big yourself up and say you are the font of all knowledge and call others numpties for their views is a little rude in my opinion.

I for one loved Will and I will admit that I said after injury, for what ever reason he did not look the player he once was.

Was that due to being slightly hesitant about getting injured again? Was down to boredom? Was it down to the fact he had just outgrown the championship? I don't know. My biggest fear for him would be that if he carried the same attitude or hesitancy into the premiership he would fade into obscurity.

It would appear he has found his feet and is playing at the top of his game again and I applaud it and indeed I am very pleased for the lad.

However, let's move on with what we have and get behind the current squad. 

There is life after Will.

 

[Wolfie20]

18 hours ago, Highgate said:

What probably happens a lot of the time is that poster picks the version of the fee paid or received that suits their argument at that time.

What ever fee is quoted for Will's sale.....it's only a small fraction of what the Derby should have been asking, for a young player with such obvious talents.

Whatever the actual fee, i agree Hughes was worth a lot more but Watford apart, which other clubs were prepared to take the gamble- I'm sure they would have been fully aware of the likely fee once Watfords' interest became known. Ask what you like but if there's very little interest you either don't sell (and I think we needed the money more than most fans thought) or you take what you can when you can and then move on.

Hughes is a gifted player and given the chance will flourish in the PL but I believe the squad of last season, even with Huges and Ince, would not have mounted a realistic top 2 challenge- the current one mat well do. Time will tell.

[Wolfie20]

2 hours ago, BathRam72 said:

To be fair, this is a forum and people will always have their own opinion. Some you will agree with and some you won't.

That is what makes a forum. If everyone agreed it would be a very boring place.

However to big yourself up and say you are the font of all knowledge and call others numpties for their views is a little rude in my opinion.

I for one loved Will and I will admit that I said after injury, for what ever reason he did not look the player he once was.

Was that due to being slightly hesitant about getting injured again? Was down to boredom? Was it down to the fact he had just outgrown the championship? I don't know. My biggest fear for him would be that if he carried the same attitude or hesitancy into the premiership he would fade into obscurity.

It would appear he has found his feet and is playing at the top of his game again and I applaud it and indeed I am very pleased for the lad.

However, let's move on with what we have and get behind the current squad. 

There is life after Will.

 

Agreed - thought it was one of the most arrogant posts for some time unless it was meant to be tongue in cheek.

[Parsnip]

2 hours ago, Wolfie20 said:

Whatever the actual fee, i agree Hughes was worth a lot more but Watford apart, which other clubs were prepared to take the gamble- I'm sure they would have been fully aware of the likely fee once Watfords' interest became known. Ask what you like but if there's very little interest you either don't sell (and I think we needed the money more than most fans thought) or you take what you can when you can and then move on.

I really think that Will's contract extension, Vydra & Anya's moves, and Will's move to Watford are all tied in - a handshaken move to avoid the horror of losing Will for nothing. No other clubs came in because he was never available - the deal was already done.

And it's starting to look like a masterstroke now Vydra's turning into one of the best strikers in the league. For Watford too - looks to me like they've got one of the best young English midfielders in the premiership.

Probably a cracking deal for both clubs and both players.

[cannable]

6 hours ago, BathRam72 said:

To be fair, this is a forum and people will always have their own opinion. Some you will agree with and some you won't.

That is what makes a forum. If everyone agreed it would be a very boring place.

However to big yourself up and say you are the font of all knowledge and call others numpties for their views is a little rude in my opinion.

I for one loved Will and I will admit that I said after injury, for what ever reason he did not look the player he once was.

Was that due to being slightly hesitant about getting injured again? Was down to boredom? Was it down to the fact he had just outgrown the championship? I don't know. My biggest fear for him would be that if he carried the same attitude or hesitancy into the premiership he would fade into obscurity.

It would appear he has found his feet and is playing at the top of his game again and I applaud it and indeed I am very pleased for the lad.

However, let's move on with what we have and get behind the current squad. 

There is life after Will.

 

He was at the best we’ve ever seen him after his injury, under Wassall.

Then we had Pearson, then defensive Mac 2 and Rowett just didn’t fancy him. 

[Highgate]

4 hours ago, Wolfie20 said:

Whatever the actual fee, i agree Hughes was worth a lot more but Watford apart, which other clubs were prepared to take the gamble- I'm sure they would have been fully aware of the likely fee once Watfords' interest became known. Ask what you like but if there's very little interest you either don't sell (and I think we needed the money more than most fans thought) or you take what you can when you can and then move on.

Hughes is a gifted player and given the chance will flourish in the PL but I believe the squad of last season, even with Huges and Ince, would not have mounted a realistic top 2 challenge- the current one mat well do. Time will tell.

I'm speculating of course, but i don't think there was a desperate need for cash. If it was all about the money, it would have made far more sense to wait until after Will had finished displaying his talents at the Euros than to sell him as early as we did. I also don't think that Hughes was demanding a move away or intending to cause trouble if we insisted on keeping him for another season.

The reason we sold, it seems to me, is that Hughes simply wasn't a Rowett type of player, so the sooner he was gone, the quicker GR could get on with the task of rebuilding the team in the manner he saw fit. Now I simply can't see how any championship side could possibly be improved by selling Hughes, and Rowett's willingness to sell him illustrates to me that he has a very limited style of management.

But that does not mean his style can't be effective, the signings he has made seem to be working well and our defence is looking very solid at the moment. Just because a manager prefers one style of football over another, doesn't rule out the possibility that he could actually be very effective at managing teams in the style he is comfortable with. We've seen it before with plenty of other managers.

To be honest, had I been MM, i would have made sure that the manager I chose was compatible with the best players I had at the club, which is something he failed to do, and not for the first time. Fortunately though, it seems possible, that MM and Rowett may find their own route to success. Let's hope so.

 

 

[Mostyn6]

Just pulled his hamstring.

[jagerbob]

On 28/11/2017 at 15:13, Highgate said:

I'm speculating of course, but i don't think there was a desperate need for cash. If it was all about the money, it would have made far more sense to wait until after Will had finished displaying his talents at the Euros than to sell him as early as we did. I also don't think that Hughes was demanding a move away or intending to cause trouble if we insisted on keeping him for another season.

The reason we sold, it seems to me, is that Hughes simply wasn't a Rowett type of player, so the sooner he was gone, the quicker GR could get on with the task of rebuilding the team in the manner he saw fit. Now I simply can't see how any championship side could possibly be improved by selling Hughes, and Rowett's willingness to sell him illustrates to me that he has a very limited style of management.

But that does not mean his style can't be effective, the signings he has made seem to be working well and our defence is looking very solid at the moment. Just because a manager prefers one style of football over another, doesn't rule out the possibility that he could actually be very effective at managing teams in the style he is comfortable with. We've seen it before with plenty of other managers.

To be honest, had I been MM, i would have made sure that the manager I chose was compatible with the best players I had at the club, which is something he failed to do, and not for the first time. Fortunately though, it seems possible, that MM and Rowett may find their own route to success. Let's hope so.

 

 

Couldnt disagree more, he was a shadow of his former self after his injury, he is only good when the side plays a certain way, a way which is slow paced and very hard to open teams up.

Whilst not exactly the same, Idiakez was a bit of a playmaker, for a couple of managers at Derby, first thing Billy Davies did was sell him, and bring in some more versatile Central midfielders. We subsequently won a lot more games and got promoted.

If Hughes wasnt sold, and was playing here, then there would be no position for Vydra, who is absolutely flying at the moment.

I like my central midfielders to be good all rounders, passers, decent shot, can be physically strong, win tackles etc etc.

Give me Ledley over Hughes anyday, and let the forward players do their thing on the counter when they have space to play in.

if Hughes actually scored goals for us, and actually provided assists then you might have a case to play him in an attacking midfield option, but he doesnt, and he is a luxury when it means you probably only have one holding midfielder in the team to accomodate him.

[Alph]

Assists is a ******** stat

[Highgate]

2 hours ago, jagerbob said:

Couldnt disagree more, he was a shadow of his former self after his injury, he is only good when the side plays a certain way, a way which is slow paced and very hard to open teams up.

We'll have to disagree then, but I do think you are falling into to the trap than a lot of people seem to, in thinking that Hughes was a lightweight luxury player who never won a tackle for Derby County. In fact he was a good ball winner.

Of course some styles of play will suit him more than others, but correctly utilised, Hughes would improve any squad in the Championship. On that point I'm not willing to concede an inch.

Ledley is also a very good player by Championship standards. I think a manager should be able to accommodate both.

[Sexydadbod]

The Watford 3 at the back formation is helping Hughes a lot. He can get forward a lot more than he did here because Doucore does all his dirty work and the centre backs fill in when there are gaps in midfield.

[AdamRam]

6 hours ago, jagerbob said:

Couldnt disagree more, he was a shadow of his former self after his injury, he is only good when the side plays a certain way, a way which is slow paced and very hard to open teams up.

Whilst not exactly the same, Idiakez was a bit of a playmaker, for a couple of managers at Derby, first thing Billy Davies did was sell him, and bring in some more versatile Central midfielders. We subsequently won a lot more games and got promoted.

If Hughes wasnt sold, and was playing here, then there would be no position for Vydra, who is absolutely flying at the moment.

I like my central midfielders to be good all rounders, passers, decent shot, can be physically strong, win tackles etc etc.

Give me Ledley over Hughes anyday, and let the forward players do their thing on the counter when they have space to play in.

if Hughes actually scored goals for us, and actually provided assists then you might have a case to play him in an attacking midfield option, but he doesnt, and he is a luxury when it means you probably only have one holding midfielder in the team to accomodate him.

Hughes is the best youth product to come out of derby for years, should have built a team around him rather than the tedious, boring “counter” attacking physical football on display now.  Ledley over Hughes says it all really, would hate to become a WBA or Burnley who build their teams around that type of football.

[Wolfie20]

6 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Hughes is the best youth product to come out of derby for years, should have built a team around him rather than the tedious, boring “counter” attacking physical football on display now.  Ledley over Hughes says it all really, would hate to become a WBA or Burnley who build their teams around that type of football.

So if you build a team around one player who is real quality (and I think Hughes still has much more to give - still only 22 after all), what happens if that player gets a serious injury that keeps him out for over 12 months? That's a very risky strategy