duncanjwitham Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Right, I'm not seeing this - how do any of you fans think we should have held on to Hughes and Ince when they want to go? Tell them they can go up with us next season? They've fell for that one before! How would we keep them? The issue is why they want to go in the first place. If it's because they genuinely just want to go and play in the prem and don't want to be at Derby then okay. If it's because they don't think Rowett plans on playing them, then that's a different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 13 minutes ago, Purpleram said: The worlds full of sceptics and cynics, being a football used to be about blind faith, it was more fun. Being a football fan is about being partizan ....not about blind faith. Wanting and wishing your team to win regardless of who is playing and what happens is one thing. Thinking a manager is doing the right thing for your club...and not evaluating his decisions is something completely different. It's the club that matters...not the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valleyram Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 19 hours ago, CumbrianRam said: Or Bryson been trying 6 years Give me the attitude of Bryso any day of the week over him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 17 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Not sure how you can say whether it will be fixed ot not without giving it a try. It may be that Wisdom and Davies don't want the ball at their feet and want to get it to a midfielder as quick as possible. Part of the problem was that we have defenders who like to run with the ball straight to where our midfielders are standing. Thorne in front of back 4, Johnson pushed further forward getting around Martin, I can see how it could work. Unfortunately it appears that most have written off next season already before a ball has even been kicked. Them not wanting the ball at their feet isn't magically going to turn them into good passers though. Shackell never wanted the ball at his feet, but we were forced into it because of his lack of pace (meaning the team sat deeper) and his poor technique (meaning the ball came out for the back 4 too slowly). It's not about writing the season off, but I just want to see some semblance of a plan. The biggest issue over the last 2 seasons has been the scattergun approach to signings and managerial appointments, leading to a mish mash of a squad with no obvious way of setting up a team. With the business we've done so far, I don't see any suggestion that this is changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valleyram Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Will I've no doubt will be a success ince on the other hand will never be a premiership player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, AmberRamber said: Mate when everything is in place and the window is slammed shut then might be the time to cast a critical eye over the transfer dealings and how the side is playing. However to say logic demands that we are now skeptical of our manager sounds like whilst not calling for his head, your certainly sharpening the axe and positioning the chopping block. I'm staggered. Fans were hailing the signings of wisdom and Davies and were happy Camara got paid up. But now Mr Rowett has made bold decisions....."Mel, MEEELLL,get the sharpening stone out will ya" Ridiculous That's the reality.....all manager's heads are permanently on the chopping block. They are only too aware of their situation. Their fates shouldn't matter to the fans....all the matters is the long-term future of the club. You may find it ridiculous...but if our results aren't good at the start of the season...Rowett will come under a lot of pressure pretty quickly. Of course, he should be given a chance...and I'm not calling for his head at all. I hope he succeeds next season. But if he thinks his position is 100% safe regardless of performances, then he hasn't been paying attention to the recent history of this club. And there is no need to suspend skepticism or criticism. Skepticism should be the default position...and if we are going to have a moratorium on criticism until the transfer window closes, then we may as well suspend this forum until September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 hour ago, GadFly said: Maybe a loan, paying a portion of his wage? No Thanks!! Get Tom Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogbad van 50 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 22 minutes ago, Highgate said: I don't know if Rowett tried to hold onto Hughes, that's the crucial point. Could he have been persuaded to give it 12 more months, was there any effort to do that....or was Rowett more than happy to get rid as soon as an offer came in? If so that makes me doubt Rowett's ability to spot correctly identify Hughes' value to the club. The same goes for Ince, although I can forgive his sale more than Hughes'. Seeing as Rowett is as yet unproven in Derby, what other position can we logically take regarding him other than skepticism? I'm not calling for his head, just waiting to see what his teams do...but I'm not brimming with confidence given what has gone on so far. Or,could the "crucial point " be that Rowett wasn't seeing a 100% commitment from either player? He needs a fully motivated squad to achieve anything in this division and he wasn't getting the right vibes.The transfer window opens tomorrow and I'm thinking some people need to calm down and wait to see which new players arrive before they jump up and down and stamp their feet.Curtis and Wisdom(if he ever signs!) are a good start as the defence was too weak last year.Rowett says he's now looking to reinforce the attacking options which will probably mean 2/3 more outgoings.Not a problem for me as the squad needs changing.It doesn't happen overnight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r4derby Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Rample said: What's the situation with Judge? I know he was the in demand winger for championship sides last year before his injury. I haven't missed your comment - Judge was brilliant a season ago, can play across the 3 attacking mids and apparently was nearing end of contract. Has he signed for Newcastle like speculated or got a new deal at Brentford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 minute ago, rcarso1 said: Or,could the "crucial point " be that Rowett wasn't seeing a 100% commitment from either player? I think you are being unfair to question Hughes or Ince on their levels of commitment, do you think they would have given less than 100% next season had they stayed? What evidence do you have for that? I can understand they may not have enjoyed his style....but to say they wouldn't have bothered giving their all for the team is quite a slur on their respective characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 26 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: The issue is why they want to go in the first place. If it's because they genuinely just want to go and play in the prem and don't want to be at Derby then okay. If it's because they don't think Rowett plans on playing them, then that's a different matter. Why? Ince looked great for Mac but not so much for others. Don't reckon Will fancied the hard yards that Rowett is demending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollycutts1982 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 2 hours ago, CHCDerby said: Nonsense, It's a team game You misunderstood what I was saying. The quality of players around him hasn't been good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamBamFan Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I can't be bothered to go back and read if these suggestions to replace Ince have already been said so I'm just going to say them here: Jota and/or Tom Lawrence. If either/both of those two join (or someone else I haven't thought of), then my optimism for next season might return. If we end up playing Russell and Weimann against Sunderland then I'm returning my season ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I have always rated ince but don't forget he was brought in as a stopgap along with bent to cover injuries... To my mind,neither ever fitted in properly to the style of play and it resulted in,yes,those two getting goals but until Martin returned from injury,the rest of the team suffered and goals dried up from the midfield. The same happened last season,bent and ince scored but nobody else did. To my mind,we don't need a super talented winger to replace ince in this division,we need someone better able to supply the rest of the team and link up well with Martin Nugent and vydra. Let's be honest,Jamie ward wasnt super talented on the wing but he and Russell did a far better job of playing as part of a integrated and linked up set of forwards than ince did......he,quite,understandably,wanted to score all the goals himself We had goals galore before ince and we can again for less expense i.m.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 26 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: Them not wanting the ball at their feet isn't magically going to turn them into good passers though. Shackell never wanted the ball at his feet, but we were forced into it because of his lack of pace (meaning the team sat deeper) and his poor technique (meaning the ball came out for the back 4 too slowly). It's not about writing the season off, but I just want to see some semblance of a plan. The biggest issue over the last 2 seasons has been the scattergun approach to signings and managerial appointments, leading to a mish mash of a squad with no obvious way of setting up a team. With the business we've done so far, I don't see any suggestion that this is changing. They don't need to be good passers. Give it to the midfielder nearest to you and let them do the passing. What formation is Rowett going to play? Not sure how you can knock his plans when you don't even know this yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 What this tells me is if both these players want to play in the premiership, which I'm sure they do. They feel going to clubs like Huddersfield and Watford gives them a better long term option than staying at Derby. That's how far away we are after the last couple of years of management changes and transfer activity. I've said it before it will take at least 4 years to get over the last 2 seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 What is certain reading through pages of fans thoughts on here is this...we are split on the decisions being made by GR but in truth none of this is his doing... This all stems back to wembley when we should've blown Qpr out of the water and should've done then who knows where we'd be and what players we'd have ...but we didn't!!! and in truth our team then was better equiped for the premier league than the championship because we played great football .... A team that at the time was playing excellent football and needing a tweak here and there and a plan B in certain games did not though carry out the necessary tweaks and changes which to me were not too severe..... Instead we've gone from manager to manager and made panic buys and in truth made some awful decisions both on and off the pitch and now find ourselves with a manager who in truth not everyone is sure about. What has happened in the past has had a major effect on what GR is trying to do now and that is not his fault. If we were prem league now would Hughes or Ince be good enough or would we want better ?? The fact we are in the championship and GR is making big decisions it is understandable how us fans are a bit split and worried as i am myself but i do think GR is proud to be our manager and will therfore do his best and has to be given the time to do it. I worry about the type of football we will play under GR like some mention on here when we've been spoilt under Mac when he got us playing superbly with Cloughs players but that was some time ago now. Whether we like it or not we will be shouting and cheering loudly in the first game of the season and that will never change for me but it is not wrong to be concerned because its obvious we all love this club and runs through my veins. We will be ok....keep the faith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Doodle said: What this tells me is if both these players want to play in the premiership, which I'm sure they do. They feel going to clubs like Huddersfield and Watford gives them a better long term option than staying at Derby. That's how far away we are after the last couple of years of management changes and transfer activity. I've said it before it will take at least 4 years to get over the last 2 seasons To think a few years back, we were playing Bournemouth away and the papers were calling us 2 teams that would light up the premier league. Now they're buying defenders for £20m, and we look no closer to joining them! What a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I'll be more comfortable with this transfer by the end of the summer I reckon. I hope we get rid of Blackman and Weimann. Despite neither of them being awful players I'd like to see Rowett bring in two younger prospects. My business sense with getting rid of a successful, young player like Ince is that it's worth it if we can bring in two new young prospects who could be at Ince's level in a couple of years, maybe less. We haven't really been linked to anyone you'd consider an Ince replacement but for example sake I'll say Jordan Ibe on loan with a view to a permanent and Ryan Kent from Liverpool on loan. Both young and done it at Championship level. If you add those two to Anya and Russell it's arguable we've got stronger on the wing. If we're swapping out Ince for two young talents, while clearing out some of the players who are probably overpaid for their contribution to the team, then I think we're doing good business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hintonsboots Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Has he gone yet ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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