vonwright

2 minutes ago, Justa said:

Trying not to be too downhearted but after our ‘recruitment campaign’ this was pretty much what I expected.

I completely understand people who point out it's not easy to sign players, sometimes targets go elsewhere, blah blah. But the clear fact is we massively prioritised the defence and wing back positions in our recruitment this summer and we've neglected the midfield and attack. If we've now run out of money and targets then that is on the management and ownership. Our midfield and attack have needed attention for a long time

Just now, Carl Sagan said:

What this game tells me more than anything is how desperately we need Sibley back. Without him we have so little guile and creativity around the opposition box. Would have made a big difference today. 

We still need some energy and creativity in midfield, and a consistent goal threat up front. That was true last season and hasn't changed just because we've signed a load of defenders and wing backs. Losing Knight and McGoldrick hasn't exactly helped. This isn't the end of the world and there were a lot of positives, but hopefully it's also a wake up call to Clowes as well as Warne

I'd be less bothered about selling Bird (for a suitably high fee) if I had any confidence the money would be reinvested, and reinvested well. By which I mean e.g. selling a promising young player for £2m and reinvesting in e.g. two other players for (say) 500k or 750k each. The sale of Knight doesn't fill me with much confidence now we are scratching around in the Rhodes/Waghorn/Sharp bargain bin for ageing out of contract strikers. 

The midfield and attack needed strengthening even before we lost Knight, McGoldrick and now perhaps Bird. If we can't or won't pay fees for quality (preferably youngish) players out of the profits from sales, then given the frees on offer to us then I'd rather we didn't sell.

We have strengthened really well at the back but there were so many times last season we got outworked and outplayed in midfield and lacked pace and guile up front. If we go into next season with the squad we have, I imagine the same will happen again. Even more so if we lose Bird without signing adequate reenforcements. 

1 hour ago, Sparkle said:

Let’s not be to concerned about potentially signing Waghorn - we were playing Moxey at centre forward in the championship and Delap at centre forward in the premiership - that’s a left back and a right back 😆😆😆

Moxey wasn't even that great as a full back. 

26 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

We're now reaching unheard of levels of bed-wetting - unless you're part of Warne's inner circle (and it seems no-one on here is), then you have absolutely no idea whether we've been after any of the rumours - it's nothing more than fans speculating. If you're needing to wash your sheets because we don't seem to have been in for any of these players (without knowing whether we have or not) then it might be advisable to leave the forum alone for a few days - it really can't be good for your mental health to stress about whether we've seemed to try to sign a player that we may not even have been interested in....

Bit harsh. I think people are just expressing legitimate concern that we haven't been able to bring in a first-choice striker who looks likely to score a decent amount of goals. We all know that's something we lack.

None of us know who Warne has or hasn't been in for. Ultimately we judge the window (and Warne) by who he manages to get through the door. And at the moment we still look very light up top, and are hearing lot of noise from the club about how difficult it is to sign players and how little money we have. 

Maybe that's a negotiating tactic and maybe Warne has an ace up his sleeve. If so, great. But we don't know that either, and fans are entitled to express concern based on the situation right now. 

6 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

I think Waggers is one of the better options I have heard…

Yeah I wouldn't mind if he signs. Was quietly hopeful we might have had a bit of money to sign someone younger. Completely understand why Warne has prioritised the defence but seems odd we've sold Knight (and Bielik for that matter) but are scratching around for older, out-of-contract forwards

1 hour ago, BPV said:

Think he comes across as a great bloke, and absolutely gave his all for us at times, especially that Wednesday game. 

However, if this is where we’re at in terms of signing attacking players it’s a pretty scathing insight to our recruitment at the minute.

I’d be absolutely fine with him as a 4th choice option, but with Washington yet to feature in a friendly, he’d be our 2nd choice going into the start of the season.

To say we needed another good striking option even before we lost Mcgoldrick, it’s really not looking all that promising going into this season. Obviously there’s still a few weeks left to bring players in, but it’s unlikely to be anyone of any real top quality is it? 

Yeah feels like we got the defence and wing back positions broadly sorted and since then it's all gone very flat and the names pretty uninspiring. It's been a transfer window of two halves...

It seems he scored for fun in the lower Scottish leagues but struggled in the championship. Rangers fans don't seem too fussed to see him go. Fingers crossed we've got a gem who finds his feet here, but I'd be surprised to see him near the first team any time soon. 

Marriott's a strange one. So much ability, yet his career seems to slide ever-downward. 

Would definitely have started him in the final though. 

39 minutes ago, David said:

I can see it was moved from the Transfer Forum as that board is for legitimate rumours with journalist sources.

Srg was suggesting it should have gone in the transfer suggestion topic which is in this board.

Which he's right tbf, otherwise the board would be full of topics with a host of players being suggested.

If we was to merge it, the poll would be lost so we'll let this one go in the hope that the no's massively outnumber the yes's so we can put this one to bed.

Worth mentioning Warne was not interested in him last season, I very much doubt he will be now despite what some would like.

Maybe just build a separate forum for Chris Martin related chat. 

7 hours ago, DRBee said:

the idea he will transform Collins, posted by some above is ludicrous. 

 

Yeah it's a lot to expect. Not only to be better than he really is but to make Collins better than he really is, too...

Good luck to the guy. Hope he does well - but also hope we sign another (better) striker.

I'm also beginning to wonder if we are putting to much weight on the fact players have 'experience of promotion'. I mean Ryan Smith and Jay McEveley had 'experience of promotion' to the Premier League. Jonathan Greening 'had experience of' winning the treble with Manchester United. 

Anyway, yeah, good luck. But if he'd signed for a promotion rival honestly I wouldn't have batted an eyelid. 

20 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

miracles happen, JC could be our saviour we just need to have faith 

He'd never get a work permit 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bryan-faith/profil/spieler/1084295

Will see who we do sign but does feel like we might have missed out here. Still not quite sure what a 'Warne' player is, but May has scored a lot of goals in the last couple of years, and that's quite rare. If Washington is the alternative then personally I'd have preferred May. 

But we shall see. 

11 hours ago, Rich3478 said:

Don’t get peoples reluctance to loans, it’s such a necessary part of football now. Anyone who improves the side is fine by me. If a chance to sign them great, if not then take whilst you can. 

Some people tend to remember the bad ones and not the good ones, and then it can seem like a waste of time.

It's only a few years since Mount, Tomori and Wilson nearly got a fairly average squad (with a fairly naive manager) into the Premier League. 

Is this thread still going?

And did anyone ever make the joke that Flint might just provide the spark that we need? IF NOT WHY NOT.

4 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

really hate this merry-go-round of players. Wouldn't mind it so much if we were going up in the world but being stuck in the third tier (the third tier) is not a strong place to sell the club from.  Those who said 2 seasons in div 1 might be good for us were fools.

(Think I might have said it actually but only once and without focusing on the inevitable exodus of talent after the failure to bounce straight back up)

Agree and the strategy seems very much to build a squad of the right 'characters' who are proven at this level, which generally means 'plenty of experience, did well at League One, never really managed to convince beyond that'. Which is fine I guess, we are after all going all-out for promotion, only if we manage it what then? We've got another major rebuild on our hands. 

The only young talent to get excited about are players that were already here, weren't brilliant last year, and might leave.  

I guess that's the reality of where we are, and why you sign up someone like Warne. Like Billy Davies' team in 2007. Pragmatic. Almost to a man not good enough for the Premier League (and unlikely to ever become so) but so what? Get the job done. Focus on the short term. Promotion is all that matters. Stick with what you know. Worry about the future in the future. And that's probably the right thing, particularly when you factor in the financial constraints at the moment. But it would be nice to have a sprinkle of unknowns and might-becomes among the worthy journeymen signings.

47 minutes ago, NorwichExile said:

Hypothetically, if Bird wasn't one of our own and had signed a couple of years back, do you think so many would still be loyal to him as a player?

I'm a fan of his, I just think he was being used wrong last season (needs to be double pivot), but folks don't half get us riled up when he's criticised.

Think that bias towards 'our own' exists, is strong, and remains even after players leave the club. For example I'm still adamant Will Hughes should have played for England and Watford and Crystal Palace have both failed terribly to use him the right way.

But that's probably not true. 

Hendrick, Bogle were not as good as I thought. Delap clearly isn't and Ebiowei and Gordon probably won't be either. 

(Edit: I realise not everyone will consider Ebiowei one of 'our own' in the same way as the others given most of his development was elsewhere.)

I'm probably not the biggest fan of Warne's overall tactical approach but I think it's very easy to caricature. 

I think Warne fully appreciates what a player like Bird can do, but also thinks he needs to try to add some mobility, strength and endurance. 

And he might well be right. Most of the best players of Bird's type also tend to be pretty mobile and high-energy these days. It's very hard to get away with 'just' being a great user of the ball.

Generally everything Warne's said about Bird suggests he's a big fan. Yet he doesn't fit the caricature of a Warne team at all. So maybe the caricature is exactly that. 

We probably took a gamble with Knight by keeping him an extra year because we thought he'd help get us promoted. As a result we are now in a bind because he's only got a year left on his contract. (Also, he didn't exactly rip up any trees last year.) So yes his value is lower than it would have been but I'm personally glad we showed some ambition and kept him.

Bielik is just bad luck. The timing of the injuries, and our relegation, has made a massive difference to what his contribution (and value) might have been. 

Still not convinced any of our academy players have been that good, sadly.

I'm not sure any have been better than Will Hughes - who was in the first team before the big investment in the academy - and even his career has been pretty underwhelming compared to what Derby fans expected. 

The academy has given us a regular stream of first team players, has been a source of great pride and excitement, and it has been great to see the youngsters come through. It's also a real shame that administration cost us the likes of Ebosele and Ebiowei and ripped the heart out of the set up.

But I've have hoped for one of two absolute gems and we've not really seen that. If making money was the aim we probably could have done better in terms of selling at peak value, but it wasn't the aim - producing premier league footballers was. Right up until we went bust. Arguably we managed to hang on to the crown jewels in Bird, Knight and Sibley, and to be fair they didn't exactly set League One alight. 

4 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Where does this idea come from that the players can only be one thing or another? As an example all modern goalkeepers and defenders are expected to be comfortable with the ball at their feet aren’t they? So they’ll be recruited and trained with that in mind. 
The young players recruited for the academy will all grow and develop in different ways and at different stages so although there is no doubt some science and analysis involved there’s no way the academy recruitment can only be geared around “big, strong, quick” players. 
Premier league clubs with academies have changing managers with differing personalities and footballing philosophies don’t they? I get there needs to be a general direction for the academy and the development of players in line with the first team of a club, but they’ll all be recruited first and foremost on their talent as footballers then shaped towards a style of play, that doesn’t mean they can’t learn another way of playing the game. Passing, tackling, shooting, running, touch, postions all coachable regardless of footballing philosophy surely? 

Agree and I think we are in danger of stereotyping both Warne and the type of player he appreciates. McGoldrick thrived massively under Warne. Would an academy that produced a load of McGoldricks be a bad thing?

Warned relied heavily on Hourihane and Bird. Are these not 'Warne type players'? Would he not want players like this in the academy? 

We've just signed Joe Ward. Who is five foot six. Is he not a etc etc etc

3 hours ago, inter politics said:

Thorne was great but very overrated. Being healthy is a skill.

How exactly do you learn to avoid an ACL injury?

32 minutes ago, dog said:

Right back, a cheery wave to the crowd 

I can definitely play the Chris Martin role*.

*If "the Chris Martin role" means "standing up front with hands on hips looking p****d off at team mates"

Shame. Think he's already a very good player who will get better. Presumably he knows this, which is why he wants to play at a higher level. 

This is one reason I don't like it when people say 'i don't mind missing out on promotion, we weren't ready, gives us no time time to plan' etc etc. If you miss out on promotion it makes it much harder to keep and attract good young players.