vonwright

Good to see the recent departures. There's a lot of nonsense spoken about how you need "players" to win football matches but I'm not convinced. 

5 hours ago, Wolfie said:

Some people are content to reach a a certain level in work and then coast. I bet we all know them in our own jobs.

In football, the temptation must be all the greater when you have clubs willing to give you a (for example) 4 year, 20k a week deal. £4m for potentially minimum effort unless you want to work hard to achieve more.

Human nature.

Yeah I get this I guess. I just find it particularly mystifying with young(ish) footballers deciding to coast where the career is so short, and the potential rewards so high if you just put in the work for a few years. 

Obviously I have no idea if any of the things people say about Marriott are true, in terms of poor training, attitude, etc. But just in general I find it so frustrating (and hard to understand) that some footballers throw away their short careers through lack of focus or application. Surely they know what they are doing? I mean when the second, third, fourth manager doesn't pick you and says you need to try harder, that's obviously not a conspiracy. That's on you. With the greatest respect to clubs like ours, who gets to the Championship in their early/mid 20s and thinks "Right, I've made it, I'll just not bother any more, and if I don't get picked that's fine by me"?

Thought he was brilliant today. Took up great positions, made theatening runs, took people on, fast direct passing. Did a real shift in defence, too, and saved us a goal. And while others jogged about and scowled at each other and looked like they thought they were too good to have to try, and hard-done-by by the universe, he played like a pro.

You can say 'yeah he does all that but no end product'. But come on: if the likes of Lawrence and Waghorn (and even CKR) did their main jobs as well as he did his, we'd have won today. You can't blame him for not doing _everything_ when some others don't seem to be doing _anything_

Worrying thing is that while we keep saying 'We played well, we deserved a point' other teams around us seem better at actually winning points. 

To be honest I'm not ultimately that fussed whether last night was an example of what we've been missing by not playing Sibley, or an example of Rooney's amazing motivational tactics in getting the 'real' Sibley back. What I am fussed about is what happens next. Surely Sibley has to start, and start centrally, in the next game? 

3 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

But that's just it. The issue isn't how well Sibley has played its how poorly he has played and its Rooney unique position that puts him miles ahead of any fan as to how how to get him to improve. Some are very dogmatic with no basis for it. That's my point. 

I can see we aren't going to agree, but this position ends with 'the manager is always right' and that's just not true. The fact the manager has more _information_ to make decisions about how to handle particular players doesn't mean they well always read that information right. Cocu was in a 'unique position' to work out the tactics and teams that would work with the players he saw in training every day, and how to best motivate them. Rowett was in a 'unique position' to work out whether Will Hughes was a player worth using or keeping (he saw him in training every day). Similarly Mourinho with Dr Bruyne or Salah. Sometimes managers get it wrong, not because they lack information but because they show poor judgement with the information they have. That may or may not be the case here. Either way it's legitimate for fans to disagree with a manager's decisions - and sometimes history will prove them right. 

1 minute ago, angieram said:

Rooney on Sibley today: 

 

There is a hint of holding Sibley to different standards in all this, ie 'I think you can be brilliant so I'm not going to pick you until you play brilliantly all the time'. I think if you do this you can easily end up with a resentful player. A sub-standard Sibley would probably still contribute more than Waghorn and maybe it's a lack of confidence caused by not being picked which is causing the problem in the first place. 

On 14/03/2021 at 14:26, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

But who's to say he's wrong? 

That's presumably what this thread is about - people who watch Derby, and Sibley, sharing their opinions. Yes, Rooney has 'privileged access' and a world of top-level football experience and yes, he might be right. But equally he might be wrong; managers sometimes are. The point is it's a legitimate debate and not settled just by pointing out that Rooney is the manager and we are not!

40 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Sibley is seen all week every week by the manager. Do any of us on here have more information as to when, if and why he should play? Also do any of us know Sibleys personality well enough to know how he best responds? If not on what basis are the assumptions made? 

That's fine but you could say the same about any player in any squad. The manager always sees more than the fans, but they still sometimes get things wrong.

I mean what exactly did they think they were getting? They spend all that money on him and then, however well he plays in the few chances he gets, they end up starting Baldock, seemingly because he's more defensively solid. Well, yes - but surely they knew this would be the case? Genuinely puzzled as to what the process was. Failure of scouting? Player bought against the manager's wishes? All very strange.