vonwright

I thought he was a decent player for us in a season when we were going through complete turmoil yet got enough points (without deductions) for a lower-mid table finish in the Championship.

He's still only 30 and could be an excellent player at this level (or higher), if only he really wanted to be.

Feels like the polar opposite of a Warne player, though.

The ongoing business plan is a strange requirement, I think.

The new owners are not the old owners. There is no reason to think they need any more help achieving "stability" than the owners of any other club. It's not like "the club" is some independent thing which is inherently unstable. Derby just had (highly) unstable ownership.

So the business plan only makes sense as an ongoing punishment. In which case: is that really fair? Would we think it fair if the EFL said: "If a club goes into administration, it will lose 12 points in the first season, and six points in each of the next two"?

To me, it makes a great deal of sense to have strict rules on the losses clubs can make, strict rules to close potential loopholes (and personally I'd include in that things like cross-selling stadiums), and severe punishments for those who breach the rules. But the rules should be - as far as possible - aimed at the seasons in which the rule breaking took place, so that a) it's targeted at the owners who breached the rules, and b) it prevents clubs profiting from breaking the rules.

What is the justification for a punishment which hangs over the club long after the people who breached the rules have gone?  

10 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I think the balance and blend of their squad is better than ours. I think our squad has better individual players than theirs but is lacking in blend and balance. It’s not a simple “this or that” in my view, that’s what I’m trying to articulate. 

I sort-of agree with this, but it isn't just about the blend of players in the squad. 

There's also the way in which the manager blends the players he has at his disposal.

There's no point trying to make a paella if you've only got the ingredients for a chicken stew.

I look at our squad, and our rivals' squads, and can't help thinking someone could have made a really good chicken stew.

6 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Posh have what looks like an easy ride this evening at Accrington. After that it's Ipswich, Bristol Rover and Barnsley.

Might depend a lot on whether Barnsley have any shot at automatic in that last game.

If not you wouldn't blame them for resting a few for the play-offs.

This season hasn't been great for the valuation of the likes of Knight, Sibley and maybe even Bird. 

It wasn't that long ago people here were claiming Knight would fit in a mid-table Prem team. But I'm not sure any of them have exactly set League One alight. 

At the age they are (not teenagers any more) they'd have to be pretty special at this level to go for big money. 

Loads of things you could talk about and blame.  

But we do lack a centre forward who represents a constant goal threat and scores goals. 

Feel bad for Collins but he just hasn't worked out, has he? Such a crucial position and we have him, McGoldrick (doesn't really feel like a No 9) and... no one else.

2 minutes ago, Yani P said:

Shocking but wonder how his confidence might be hit not having a reliable partner back there recently.

Think that can make a huge difference.

I'm the first to complain about Warne tinkering unnecessarily, dodgy selections etc but I also look at the team he picked and think (Davies aside) it should have been good enough to not be losing 2-0 at home to Fleetwood at half time. 

Part of it is that a lot of the players just aren't performing right now. 

7 hours ago, Robram said:

Last seasons team which would have stayed up without the points deduction  , versus the team thrown together quickly this season that are challenging for promotion . Are Lawrence , Allsopp , Ebosele and Co. better that Didzy , Mendez Laing  and Wildsmith etc..

We didn't have a strong enough squad last year and we fell away. But the best players - Ebiowei, Ebosele, Byrne, Lawrence, very occasionally Morrison - were much better than we have now.

That's football, the best players get noticed and moved on. There's a reason no one has offered us £10m for Knight, even if we don't want to see it. 

On 04/03/2023 at 18:59, sage said:

We are tired.

Playing gas out football with a small squad aged under 23 or over 30 has caught up with us. 

We may have to play more fringe players as we limp on, hopefully hanging on a top 6 finish.

 

Agree and not sure the January reinforcements have re-enforced us all that much. We have also been a bit unlucky with injuries/decline which means squad players like Stearman/Chester/Davies aren't really.up to the task. No alternative to Collins up front if we need a number 9. The Norwich winger hasn't really shown much so far so we rotate between just three. Some positions (left back) where we don't have a specialist first choice, let alone a second. Some of our bench options are really rotation options (I wouldn't want to see Thompson starting a game).

It's a paper-thin squad really. 

47 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

You are right that we are struggling, in part because we have such limits on the squad, and we are looking leggy because Warne has us playing a high energy game without the size of squad to keep us fit enough. But if you want to think we get the same number of bad decisions against as every other club, you can. 

I think it was a bad decision and we've had a couple this year. I don't think it's our biggest problem and it's not what I'd personally choose to focus on. It doesn't explain why we are where we are, why we can't close games out, and why when other teams step up the tempo we tend to collapse. 

Last year, when the EFL apparently hated us and wanted us out of existence, we conceded three penalties. Three. All season. 

My issue with blaming the refs is that it is just a way of avoiding the fact there are plenty of other more pertinent factors that much better explain why we are where we are. 

Edit: having watched Warne's interview, I'm basically agreeing with him. Good teams rise to adversity. We tend to collapse. It might be tiredness and a small squad. It might be that we aren't yet as good as we need to be, and other teams are simply better. Either way that's the thing we need to face and address. 

5 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

Ultimately we have to deal with it, because being humped by match officials isn’t going to go away. But we shouldn’t have to. Not the number of times that we have to.

I don't agree. I think there are a few teams better than us, more solid than us, in this division and the table is about right. The 'EFL hates us' thing is getting boring now and bordering on conspiracy theory. We aren't quite good enough or sharp enough for top two and we need to dig in for the playoffs. I'm much more worried about the fact we look leggy and sloppy at times than I am about the Great Conspiracy Against Derby. 

7 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

No. Our heads have gone down because het again we are playing more than 11 players

Right. Always the ref's fault. Although whose fault is it that our heads drop when we get bad decisions? Is that the ref too?

They just look a level above right now. Sharper, fewer mistakes, better organised, more hungry. Despite the fact we are losing. I don't know if it's because we have a fairly small squad and they are getting tired but... Not good. 

You could field a pretty strong team of "top Derby youngsters who moved to a top-tier club and basically disappeared" - not just Williams and Festy but Gordon, Delap, Ebiowei, Plange. Even Bogle was a bench player for a long time in the Premier League. 

It's completely understandable how clubs (and players) move so early now, but a shame nonetheless. 

3 hours ago, Carnero said:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr/former-founder-and-ceo-supply-chain-logistics-company-charged-20-million-wire-fraud

He's facing up to 20 years jail time ?

Clync.

1 minute ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Harvey White has to start, doesn’t work with Knight and Hourihane in the 2, we got more control of the game through white. Unfortunately unless you drop Knight probably can only accommodate one of Collins or Didzy, I’d go for the latter although Collins did well first half dealing with scraps.

I think three in midfield (including Knight) should be the bottom line, and everything else should fit around that. For me Collins is a bench option if McGoldrick up front isn't working, or he needs a break. Either way though we shouldn't be playing both. I hope Warne saw what the rest of us saw - I've got a nagging feeling he can be a bit stubborn sometimes. He was slow to move from five at the back. Hopefully he'll be quicker to revert to three (midfielders) in midfield.

52 minutes ago, David said:

Needs to sort his tie out, doesn't look very professional that.

And those sunglasses are from the Donald Trump supporter starter pack. I bet he wears a holster with a Nerf gun in when he goes to Tesco.

He's made that classic mistake of thinking having more titles makes him sound more impressive, rather than just making it sound like he's the only person who works on his website.

"I'm the owner. And the editor. And the social media guru. Also, I am director of facilities management. By which I mean I clean the office. Which is also my bedroom."

12 hours ago, rammieib said:

It's very easy to say players were not worth the money after the event when you actually have hindsight to play with.

Bielik could have been a sensational signing, we could have got promoted under Cocu, and no one would have been complaining.

For every Ivan Toney and Ollie Watkins, there is a Bielik agreed - and I don't disagree that we haven't had the best strategy on purchasing either - but its very easy to criticise down the line.

 

Of all our terrible signings, Bielik isn't one of them. He's had two ACLs - just freakish terrible luck - and when fit has shown enough for us to know that without those injuries he would have been an absolute rock. 

There's a difference between a bad transfer (and we've had plenty of them) and bad luck. Bielik is bad luck. 

If instead of what seems like dozens of Butterfields and Blackmans and Joswiaks, we'd just have signed three or four Bieliks, we'd be in a much better place.

46 minutes ago, vonwright said:

I'm okay (sort of) with Dobbin not being prolific as he brings other things. 

Collins need to be scoring and generally doing more. 

Personally I'm just glad he had time to read my comment at half time and respond.

2 minutes ago, LincsRam said:

Both Collins and Dobbin both are not prolific, Dobbin could have had a couple already.

I'm okay (sort of) with Dobbin not being prolific as he brings other things. 

Collins need to be scoring and generally doing more. 

1 hour ago, Carnero said:

Derby County: French, J. Brown, Buchanan, Bird, Minkley (C), Cashin, Whittaker, Sibley, Wilson, Knight, A. Brown

Unused Subs: Thompson, Foster-Theniger, Splatt, Matthews, Nto

Interesting looking at that - you can argue about Buchanan and Whittaker but basically we've somehow managed to hang on to the best ones. 

Crazy that someone like Minkley can captain the best U18 team in the country, then not really make it in professional football. 

6 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

To me, an advocate of natural justice, the EFL should have recognised their culpability in accepting the method in 4 years' accounts before finally deciding they didn't like it. ?

Yeah this is a strong point. 

20 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

Well they had years and years of accounts that were classed as being fine and all freaking sudden change there minds I wander why freaking gibson went crying to efl and not just that he could not stand derby having any kind of successful.

I take the point but it isn't like the EFL look at each club's accounts each year and stamp them with a big green tick.

Clubs basically self-certify and the EFL only investigates where it thinks there is a problem. 

Completely agree that they should have raised and settled the question of our accounting method much earlier, though. I wonder if they just didn't understand what we were doing. 

I'm far from an expert but is it really fair to say 'the rules were retrospectively changed'? I thought it was more a case that a) we were the only club using our 'retained value' amortisation, and b) it had never been tested whether this fit the existing rules. I realise people use such accounting methods in other industries but wasn't the issue whether it was appropriate to do so in a footballing context?

I also tend to think that even if the EFL was wrong on this point, we were still in terrible financial trouble. Their ruling certainly didn't help, but they were right that the method we used his huge losses that were _not_ going to be recouped in the way our accountancy method suggested.

1 hour ago, Kokosnuss said:

The thing is though, just because a player was never renowned for their mobility it doesn't preclude them from getting even less mobile to the point where even a quick brain can't make up for it and they become ineffective. If that was the case we'd regularly get players in their 40s playing at League One level and above.

People are talking about Chris Martin as if he's exactly the same player they last saw play for us 2 years, 6 months and 11 days ago, not the one who's just been bombed out of Bristol City.

For all we know Chris Martin no longer does stand in the right place because he can't quite get that half a yard on a defender, no longer has the strength to hold it up under pressure from a defender and goes down looking for free kicks referees no longer give him.

I think there are other types of quickness that you lose as you get older that don't have anything to do with pace, stamina, or general "mobility" (ie getting around the pitch).

I'm thinking here of what people call "quick feet", the ability to control and release the ball quickly, those fine motor skills that allow you to just move the ball the split-second before the tackle arrives. Being able to do difficult things quickly and precisely.

As people have said Martin was never fast or mobile, but I imagine part of the reason he's now without a club is that he's also losing those other types of "quickness" too. 

It's something you see in somewhat like Ronaldo. Yes, he's lost pace and dynamism. But I also think his feet just can't do what they used to do, as precisely and quickly as they used to do.