VulcanRam

59 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Washington is back in training next month and Waghorn will return at some point. As we appear to want to play with 2 upfront and Warne wants to play 352, then it's also where Mendez-Laing will play (Barkhuizen too?). That gives us 5 or 6 CF options so I can see why some may say we have enough. I would still sign one more.

And that's the concern. Collins remains, and will do for some time as things stand, our only fit player capable of playing 90 mins and scoring goals. JJ is feeling his way back into regularly playing. Washington back next month training means what, being fit to play 90 minutes 3 weeks after that? We might not see him til March at the earliest in any kind of meaningful capacity. Waghorn, we don't know so its conceivable it won't be til towards the end of the season. NML and Barks don't score anything like the amount of goals we need for promotion, particularly if we are pushing for autos. 

I agree that if Collins is injured we'd really struggle for enough goals to consistently win games. I guess it's down to what our ambition is but I'd say signing a player who is capable of being competition to Collins and can come in and play 90 minutes from the off is crucial to maintaining the promotion push.  

Supporters were not motivated enough to turn up.

Players were not motivated enough to turn up. 

Seems no-one likes playing L2 opposition in front an an East stand-only crowd, whatever competition it's in.

We can have an inquest and/or a meltdown but I'd just forget about it and move on. Far bigger fish to fry this season and our league form is good. 

Keep it. Yes it's a bit twee but not nearly as bad as some other club songs (Everton take a bow). It's the only thing that gets the whole ground clapping and engaged before kick off. Get the timing right (and don't ambush us with a third verse) and it creates a huge "Derby" right around the ground. 

@CongletonRam wumming that Bloomer is "some dead footballer who no one really knows" shows two things: his/her idiocy and the importance of keeping the song, something that celebrates not only our leading goalscorer of all time, but one of the greatest footballers of his generation. He remains the most successful Derby County player ever.

No-one wants to live in the past, but we should always treasure our heritage, especially a player like him. 

2 hours ago, Gaspode said:

Or it tells you that they want to do the right thing by the player and make sure that he's given the best possible chance to fully recover and have a long career in the game......

Agreed, both are correct. 

18 hours ago, richinspain said:

I keep seeing that he is incapable of playing 90 minutes, but has it actually been stated by someone at the club?

No, but nobody is officially going to say we've got a player who can't play a full game. 

The evidence is right in front of us. Look at his injury record, both before he joined us and since he joined us, it's poor. As @Gaspodesays, we hope we have him sorted but are being extra cautious because of his injury issues in the hope he doesn't suffer a relapse. That tells you that we've got a player whose injury record worries our coaches.

Since he's returned to action with us he's been used sparingly. We don't know whether he can do three games of 90 minutes in a week (or even one) and that's my point - until we do, and until we can be as sure as we can we've got a player who can fully contribute, we shouldn't be offering him a contract.  We've got the rest of the season hopefully with him to put that theory to the test, but do we want to risk offering 18 months (for example) to a player whose previous record indicates he might spend a considerable chunk of that out of action?

Not sure I'd give him a contract until he can play 90 minutes regularly. Loan to the end of the season with a view to a permanent would be ideal, then get him on the pitch more to see what he can do.

So after all that is the one thing that we can agree on is that we can't agree on anything. 

1Wildsmith 6  - a mixed bag of good saves, good handling and control of his area, but could he have done better for the last two goals? Maybe the second, where he appeared wrong footed and slow to get down.

24Nyambe 6.5 a really good defender who had a good battle with his attacker.

35Nelson 7 A really busy and solid afternoon until the 94th minute. 

6Cashin 7.5 Excellent again for the majority, but a c*** up for their winner.   

3Forsyth 6 was ok but felt the full force of the Peterborough attack down his side

20Elder 7 Came on at HT and did a really good job defensively, if a little reluctant as a RWB to get forward.

4Hourihane 4 A passenger without the ball, gave the ball away too often in possession. Crazy to ask him to play a third game in a week against such athletic opposition.

16Thompson 6.5 hustled and bustled and made us more competitive in midfield

2Wilson 7 Was our most creative outlet until he tired after an hour

24Ward 6 Came on and was booed by the Peterborough fans. That's about it.

11Méndez-Laing 5 As our most creative outlet, he just didn't feature at all. Surprised he didn't get hooked at HT.

19John-Jules 6 Lovely turn and shot, but didn't get any service

8Bird 5.5 Like Hourihane, he got swamped by their midfield, but unlike others can at least pass to a team mate under pressure and is calm in possession. Still can't see what his most effective role is.

9Collins 7.5 Our best player. Two goals, worked tirelessly and put himself about as always.

7Barkhuizen 6 I thought he played well first half and would have subbed Mendez instead.

17Sibley 6 Helped shore up the midfield but little else. 

28 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Is it this with some of our young players - Bird/Sibley/Thommo or Warne? We don't play through midfield, Bird's looked ordinary, Sibley looked spare and Tommo will go the same way. Sell them all and buy more wingers?

I don't think so. I think Thommo is perfect for a Warne team and now that he's fit I hope to see a lot more of him. Sibley is, well Sibley, he's played for four managers and can't get in the team whoever is in charge so there are clearly other day to day or training ground things there. I think at the moment he's a squad player who has value as such, but he's still young and has plenty of time to become first choice, here or elsewhere. It's something that may have to come from him though as I'd love to know what Cocu, Rooney, Rosenior and Warne all thought that saw him fail to get a regular spot. I presume there would be some consistency in their answers.

Bird is slightly different as expectations on him are higher and of the three I think is seen to be more naturally talented and capable of playing at a higher level.  

Ideally we would have a manager who plays to his strengths, which is possession based. But Warne has a four year contract and there's no sign he's going anywhere or suddenly going to change his style, so you have to ask how much of an asset Max is as he is going to be used by the current manager.  Equally, he looked good enough in the Championship to suggest he'd be a standout in League One, but in my opinion he isn't. There could be lots of reasons for this. I think our midfield is our weakest point, both defensively and creativity-wise, and you have to ask both why and what the best solution is.

3 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

To be fair ten minutes into the game we were being pummelled in central midfield and immediately needed an extra player in there and I was surprised it took until half time to introduce one 

You're right; I was referring to the last 10 mins when, at 2-1 up, we started sitting deep and pulling everyone back for set pieces so there was no out-ball.

12 minutes ago, Gritstone Ram said:

Peterborough played well today but I doubt they do that week in week out. Fair play to them. I don’t think Warne did his homework on them based upon having to change things around early on. I thought we made too many basic errors at the back and in midfield and our defending a lead is based upon us clearing the ball to the halfway line and conceding possession. 
We need to learn how to keep the ball and make us look dangerous rather than the standard across the back, back and forwards then a mistake oh we’ve conceded possession.

This is certainly an important part of our development if we're going to improve on holding onto leads. Every player back and hoof to the opposition so they can come at us time and time again is rudimentary. In the end today Peterborough threw so many players forward because they knew what our "strategy" was that they were ripe for the counter attack if we had the courage to leave one or two players forward.

2 minutes ago, davenportram said:

Looks like I was right when I said once results turned the fans would stop being antiWarne.

 

i predict that if we go three games without a win this thread will restart

Well if we go three games without a win against Fleetwood, Bradford and Burton I imagine the criticism will be justified. 

But in the meantime, do enjoy your smugness.

Been broadly disappointing in my opinion since we dropped to league 1. He's not helped by Warne's tactics but even so, I expected a lot more. If we can get decent money and a replacement that benefits the first team the way Warne wants to play then it's tempting. 

Thought we deserved a point though I agree with most that Peterborough were the better team. Their ability to move the ball quickly, accurately and with purpose only highlighted our inability to do it. Their front players were outstanding. 

My only gripe, and maybe its just me, but I thought collectively it was the worst officiating I have seen this season; inconsistent, hesitant and one-sided. The referee allowed Peterborough players to fall over or just stop running and gave them free kicks - the other way round we got nothing. JJ was fouled a few times but, again, nothing. He had no choice but to give the penalty it was that blatant but I was still surprised that he did. And when, on at least two occasions, we don't get free kicks to then signal advantage as if we've been fouling? And don't get me started on the assistants, who were slow in their decision making and didn't seem to have much grip on when a ball is in or out of play. Dreadful.

Nothing's changed for me. I said in the poll early season that I'd give him the season before making my mind up and that's still the case. 

We had a great run this time last year and ended up 7th. I feel more confident this season as the league is substantially weaker and we should feel like we can go up automatically. 

I'm more confident because we are playing better football at the moment, and probably the best football since Warne arrived, but's that's only been in the last couple of months. Oxford were poor but we still gifted them two goals and had it within us to win the game. Peterborough tomorrow will be a great marker for where we are, not necessarily in the result but certainly in our performance. 

I'm sure Warne has learned from last season and his disinclination to dip into the January market in case it upset the equilibrium built during a good run. It was a serious error of judgement. 

Confidence and momentum in football is everything - it can come and go in a heartbeat. At the moment its high and we feel we can do no wrong. A couple of defeats, even if we play well, can see it disappear just as quickly.

So well done to the management team for improving things and getting us on a great run. Keep it going!

51 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said:

Well your other perspective can be looked at in two ways. Firstly the way you want to look at it and secondly you could imagine if the situations were reversed. Derby v Forest or Leicester - and equivalent 'local Derby' fixture but in the Prem. That would be a sell out too, but with 32+K there. Then Palace v Brighton in the third division. 25K sellout? Not bloody likely. 

I agree, and that's the point of my post, to challenge the OP's view that somehow because there was a higher official attendance than at Palace it somehow said something definitive. Though I'm not sure what that something is. 

42 minutes ago, Old Spalding Ram said:

Premier League Thurs 21/12/2023

Crystal Palace 1 - 1 Brighton & Hove Albion

Attendance 24,171

 

EFL Sky Bet League One

Derby County 3 - 1 Lincoln City

Attendance 27,192

 

…………no further comment required. 👍🐏

Well there is really. Here's another perspective: Palace game was a sell out, capacity at Selhurst is 25k so they couldn't have got any more in.. We had 5,000 empty seats. Numbers don't tell every story. 

I enjoyed last night, compared to some of the dreadful games we’ve seen this season, it was a good open and attacking game at times. Lincoln came to give it a go and looked a threat at times. We controlled much of the play and at times some decent football broke out.

Hourihane I thought was excellent first half, controlled the game and scored a cracker. Cashin and Nelson rock solid. Wilson changed the game. Collins led the line really well and took his goal excellently. 

Couldn’t work out what Fornah and Bird’s roles were first half, seem both to playing as really advanced midfielders sitting behind Collins, which left large gaps all over our midfield. Ward should only play as a winger or wing back, he’s no more of a right back than Collins.

Overall it was a good performance which made Warne’s interview even stranger than usual. Is it a dig at the board as he knows what’s about to happen in Jan? Who knows, but you’d have thought we’d lost the way he was talking. 

Nod to the referee, who I thought had an excellent game. Let it flow, didn't allow time wasting, got the bookings right, took his time with the penalty decision and got that right, and largely let the game flow. 

4 hours ago, SKRam said:

Realise some won’t be happy till we’ve won League 1 but in the meantime…… We’ve had worse league tables to look at on Christmas Day. 
Merry Christmas 🐏 everywhere 

That’s isn’t the Christmas Day table, everyone is playing tomorrow, by which time we might be fifth again by Christmas Day!! 

But I take your point, it looks decent 🐏 

No surprise. Flirted with relegation last season, sinking like a stone at the moment. Negative and defensive style of play. Players not looking that bothered. Lots of money spent but not very wisely (not all Cooper's fault I assume).

Premier League is all about staying in the Premier League, nothing else. He didn't look capable of keeping them there. 

I remember feeling gutted when Nigel Clough was sacked as I thought he'd done a great job under difficult circumstances. Then Steve Mac came along and looked what happened. Nuno comes in and wins a couple of games no-one will be bothered about Cooper. That's football. 

3 hours ago, Steve Buckley’s Dog said:

Another Saturday game gone? I’m sick of this. Football is nothing without the fans they said during COVID. What a pile of w*** that was. No one gives a s*** about us who actually go. 

Sky TV is f****** s***, Sky TV is f****** s*** 

I will let the filters do their job. 

Good news. The Peterborough game is still on at 3pm so it won't affect ST holders or anyone who was already going. 

Fleetwood away only a tiny percentage of our fans go, so now many more can watch.

Burton on a Monday night, granted, is a pain for anyone not local. Kills the atmosphere as well.

On the upside, money into the club is all good. And as @CBRammette actually a lot more disruption and rearrangement is being caused by (in my opinion needless) international breaks, nothing to do with broadcasters, so your ire may be better aimed at the FA.

42 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Of course it is.  I'm not disputing that.

Such a scenario could likely lead to a team being labelled "The team with the lowest points total in history".
But I wouldn't equate that with our fabled "Worse team in history" label.

We "achieved" our points total solely on the pitch.  Solely on results.  Solely in the spirit of football.  Solely on the fact we were managed by a dwarf... then a porn star... and at least one of our players had a head shaped like a 50p piece.  
 

To be honest, seeing as you put it like that, just getting to 11 points was an achievement.

Half-marks allowed; please rate all subs. Closes Thursday @ 18:00. Results by Thursday 22:00. Average is 6.00. Therefore, when a sub steps on the pitch he is on 6 -that'sthe baseline. Also indicate ATG (at the game) Or Tv.

1Wildsmith 7 Terrific first half save, solid throughout, no chance with their goal

24Nyambe 6 Solid enough, tried to get forward

35Nelson 7 Chris Martin's still in his pocket

6Cashin 7 Some great interceptions

17Sibley 5.5 Defensive weak link, first half was beaten at will. Not surprisingly a bit better when moved forward.

4Hourihane 6 Looks off the pace most of the time but kept play ticking

7Barkhuizen 6 As often, started brightly then faded

2Wilson 7 Injected some much needed pace and trickery

12Smith 5 Seemed to struggle, could do with moving the ball a bit quicker.

22Fornah 7 Brought some pace to the midfield. Excellent run for the winner.

8Bird 6 Still flatters to deceive for me.

5Bradley 6 Makes the crowd nervous but was solid enough, not his fault his introduction invited a lot of pressure

11Méndez-Laing 8 Our most creative spark, another great game and two (sort of) goals.

9Collins 7 Worked hard with very little service, looked a threat.

10Waghorn 6 Didn't add much when he came on.

1 hour ago, Sparkle said:

I missed the game yesterday as I am away but most of the reports sent to me suggest we were dreadful for 70 minutes and fortunate to win the points, is that the case ? 
Chris Martin did ok I assume ? 
several interesting results around the division yesterday I thought

First 45 was woeful, dire and a dirge.

Better second, got the goal, controlled the game until we switched to 5 at the back, which invited Bristol on. They undeservedly equalised, but good on Fornah and NML.

3 hours ago, McArthur Park said:

For me the performance didn't really matter that much yesterday, it was all about getting the win for B4 and getting into the top six, so job done in that respect. Something I would like to say though is when Bradley was about to come on, there was an audible groan from those around me. I get that he hasn't had the best of starts, but I just wish we could be a bit more supportive, rather then expecting the worst from him every time. A confidence boost will surely help him improve his game, and isn't that what we all want really?

It's a fair point, but we expect the worst from him every time because generally he gives the worst of him every time.