jono

4 hours ago, sage said:

You do realise the 'anti Warne' as you call them would describe the 'pro Warne' in the same way.

There are probably a couple of extreme posters on both sides. One thing I would say as a 'Warne sceptic' is there are many who just want to close down any debate, which makes 'anti Warne' posters more extreme and actually prolongs negative themes. 

It’s curious, I just don’t see it like that. I don’t think there is a single person on here that thinks PW is a born again genius. There are things about his style that don’t always appeal and, in the past, he has seemed inflexible. Most of us can see that and at the same time acknowledge he has some nous that has proved useful. I don’t see any, nominally, on the pro side who can’t see some of his weaknesses. The opposite of the anti’s who see everything that goes wrong on the pitch to the boardroom as Warne’s fault and will find a way to attribute it to him; be it budget, unforced errors or injuries and that’s before we even get to playing style. 

On 14/02/2024 at 12:36, Caerphilly Ram said:

Posters on both sides of the fence can be just as irritating.
It’s probably a given that if you are Pro Warne you’d get irritated by those most anti-Warne, and if you’re anti-Warne you’d get irritated by those most pro-Warne….and for everyone who’s somewhere in between…. it’s all quite irritating. 

It’s not that I am pro or anti. It’s that the anti mob are so irritating. The so called pro side tend to reflect on the good and the bad. The anti are just fixated, win or lose. Never give an inch, dull, obsessed, spoilt, churlish and without perspective. I suspect that Those of us, (me included ) that are vaguely supportive, only post in a vain attempt to balance the one eyed vitriol. 
 

Dreading Saturday .. looking like 4 strikers all injured, but it will be completely Warne’s fault if we lose, or pure luck if we win. Like a horrible scratched record. 

7 hours ago, ap04 said:

33' woodwork
58' inches away from free header tap in
66' Ebu last ditch a yard wide with Wildsmith wrong footed
93' Sitter inches over
(just the clear-cut ones, they also had lesser moments 6' 7' 56' 68' 93' and 96', twice as many as ours but which you can ignore)

Now waiting for our count expecting it to reach double figures.

1) so missed target ? 

2) an inch ? ask the Germans in 66

3) missed

4) missed

And I am sure, in addition to those we actually scored ( something they didn’t do ) that you could make a list of our misses, near or not.

Troll, doomsayer, door opening actuator and all round comic. Bravo. 

I just don’t get it. I mean, we never kill teams off, don’t use the midfield, coaching is dreadful. Given our status and advantages we should be 10 points clear .. and where are we ? Lounging around in second place, going on coach trips to Devon and all that team building malarkey. Need to get a grip. 
 

😎

39 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

Currently watching Derby play and watching the living room paint dry and I’m enjoying the paint drying more apart from the 20 second bird exceptional bit of play 

How’s the paint doing ? 

6 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Why does it always have to be a dig at Warne?! 🤦🏻‍♂️ 

Both Bird and Warne recently commented on the extra finishing training they’ve spent time doing together, Bird is playing further up the pitch again after the Adams signing by Warne and change to the midfield set up…. perhaps a slight bit of credit is due there despite Bird’s very sad impending departure. 

They can’t help it. Poisonous one mantra idealogues who pretend to be fans and supporters. 
 

24 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

You forgot "being in possession of an offensive wife"👍

I loved that but decided someone might take offence 🤣😎

8 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Doesn't that sentence contradict itself? The answer is because those teams aren't that good, and supports the point that the league isn't strong.

 

Once again, what does that even mean? More waffle. Why don't you actually express an opinion for once?

 

Because its almost unprecedented. Two even having points deductions. Its basically removing three strong rivals before the seasons started. Why can't you concede its a rare advantage to Derby.

 

There's also examples of teams who have gone straight back up. We're a bigger club than the examples you gave, except Wednesday and Sunderland, and they were both still in the middle of their difficulties while in L1.

Why put us down so much? I know you're going to say we have to deal with where we are, and the reality is we're a L1 club at the moment. But comparing us to Charlton? come on.  

6 hours ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Love all the spurious, near-unanswerable questions which depict a future based on a blind-faith-lead, theoretical idea that Warne has what it takes to manage in the Championship and would see us matching the likes of Ipswich, Sunderland & Plymouth rather than Sheffield Weds, who are the club we're most comparable to out of last season's promoted teams. 

Ipswich & Plymouth have had success due to appointing progressive young managers, Sunderland got up through Neil (not great) but made a very shrewd appointment in Mowbray after he left.  Coventry & Robins I don't know a great deal about but he appears to be one of those managers who's just clicked at a certain club and feels like the right fit. Sheff Weds may yet stand a chance of staying up because Danny Röhl looks a good appointment, he also seems to be well regarded as another of progressive types.

The whole "competitive league" thing is the same argument Forest fans were roundly laughed at for coming out with with last season to make it sound like they were beating all the odds to stay up, despite it mainly being because of the way other teams imploded after years of poor management caught up with them and Forest's own £150m+ splurge producing  just enough s*** to stick to the wall.

A league can be both more competive but also far weaker, and that probably fits in with what we're seeing - we do get results because we put in the graft, there's plenty of industry and  'busywork' (and it has always been to Warne's credit that he recognises how important that is) which covers the competitiveness, but we also have individuals with more quality (and just as importaintly experience) than pretty much anyone else, which covers the general lowering of quality.

That will (probaby) be enough to get us out of League One this season, but to stay in the Championship you can't just rely on the hard work, and I think it unlikely that, whatever our budget, we'll be able to bring in enough (/good enough) players to provide that individual quality to the degree we'll be able to play poorly collectively but still scrape enough points for survival.

That means needing a manager who can do those (cliched) "producing a team better than the sum of its parts", "performing above budget" and "out-thinking the opposition" things.

That final sentence. Well yes of course. There’s a handful of Fergie’s sitting on the pavement outside Aldi in Chad with gizza job badges and we just drove past. 

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

A reaction to giving away late goals. 👍 We nearly did it against Shrewsbury, Nelson should have scored at least.

Loitering with intent to use a zebra crossing, wearing a loud shirt between 11.00 PM and 5.00 AM, walking in a “funny” way.

(with thanks to Not the 9.00 o’clock news ) 

37 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

For the record it's not the first time we've given the lead away like Shrews is it - you make your theory fit the facts, it's only because you're a fan of Warne isn't it? Week on week is about right, still not figured that we don't need to sit back on a lead! 😄

 

For the record Roy .. we are top for giving away late goals .. Oh and top for scoring late goals so where does that sitting back come from ?

6 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

So the manager doesn't know how to get the best from his players, he thinks they won't make mistakes? I see. If only we'd tried to score more than one goal and not sat back.

Roy, sorry to be personal, it isn’t really my style but you are like a dodgy cop. Make the evidence fit the story. Ok you don’t like Warne .. I think we all know that now. 
 

For the record no manager knows how to get the best out of their players week on week and certainly not in L1. Some managers are better than others, some players are better than others. The league table gives a good idea how both bits are working. I’d probably be agreeing with your arguments if we were in 17th place. But we aren’t .

27 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

The level we are playing out would make that scenario difficult to execute? If the players were so good that they didn't make 'so many' individual mistakes then the likelihood is that they wouldn't be in league 1 if they could play football well.

Precisely ! Which is why I bridle at the mantra from certain quarters, you included that just slates Warne instead of the footballers !

56 minutes ago, SSD said:

Apologies for the red ink, I'm colourblind and didn't realise.

I will rephrase he doesn't want to retain the ball to he doesn't want to retain the ball in key points during the match. The manager has made hard work of earning the points when if we just kept the ball for 10-15 minutes rather than aimlessly going wide every time, it will grind teams now. Not pretty but at least we can exploit the space when the opposition get tired.

We've got one of the oldest squads in the league, where is the game management to take a breather and keep the ball. They look shattered as if we are playing quality sides every week, like we earned a brilliant point. Shrewsbury had nothing brilliant about them and we made them look better. It is a chore to watch this standard every week, nothing to do with Derby being in League One either. Ipswich could play nice fluid football, Plymouth did too. Okay, they had some stinkers along the way but I have heard plenty of praise from their fans on the managers and how much of a joy it is to watch every week. How is it we are 2nd yet it's a 50/50 split on how we perform and the football on offer, even on those unbeaten runs. Something isn't adding up. Warne has demonstrated so far he is just a short term Neil Warnock type manager who I don't believe can take his football up another level. Achieves results here but this is never going to be competitive when we play teams who can actually pass a ball more than 5 yards. And I hope he proves me wrong when we gain promotion out of this pit of a division. 

I think we are just making things very difficult for ourselves when we have the quality and experience in the side to see games out.  

You make a good case but I remain convinced that our inconsistencies lie much more with simply making too many individual mistakes. That said we are in second place. 
The football looks bad at times, no denying that, particularly in midfield but I suspect it wouldn’t if we made fewer mistakes or took more opportunities. I don’t think Warne is a genius but I believe he does know what he’s doing / coaching but at times the players aren’t adjusting as well as perhaps they might. One thing for sure there isn’t a manager with a magic wand. If you’re not fond of Warne long term, I could get that, but in the ebb and flow of life as a Derby fan right now ? He’s doing and saying the right stuff within reasonable parameters. (And acknowledging most of his errors when they happen ) 

12 hours ago, SSD said:

The players can have lapses in concentration, that happens to every team and late goals goes for and against us. The manager tells the players what do, how to set up, where to play the ball, movements going forward. I think the squad is good enough to play with more control, more fluidity, wearing sides out by actually keeping the ball. There was a couple of times where it was one touch passing and we got into their box, really good football. If we just kept the ball better, Shrewsbury would have burnt out in the end. Their quality of pass was awful and we kept gifting them opportunities to knock the ball in the channels once their subs came on.

The manager does not want the team to retain the ball, hence why every side we face regardless of quality keeps having chances. We should be killing teams off, not just with the scoreline but making them run around and tiring them out. We could easily pick teams off but Warne's style of football makes it very difficult to put games to bed. I don't think many folks are moaning for the sake of it, even if I don't agree with some of their points. The team is not playing smartly enough in a "bad patch" where we are picking up points but it is a chore to see to 90 minutes. We should not be breathing a sigh of relief thinking I'm glad we've like some points here like underdog smaller club with a small budget. 

 

A lot of red ink there. Not entirely sure what significance it has ? I do see some of your points but too much is based on your premis that “Warne doesn’t want his team to retain the ball” honestly mate that’s garbage. All managers want their team to retain the ball and Warne is no different. Sure Cocu wanted possession at all costs with sidey backwards at the back. Nice idea but if the quality isn’t there it doesn’t work. 
 

We’ve got some good players but “good” is relative and we are in league one. Many of our better players are past their peak. 
I cannot think of a manager that would get us; with our current squad, with the restrictions we are under, in the league we are in ….. suddenly playing total football and getting points. 
 

Players have to pass accurately, predict a runners next move, read a bounce, time a tackle or simply have the pace, skill and confidence to beat a man. I contend that If we did that regularly then Warne’s football would no be as bad as you suggest 

8 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Looking at the game today I've basically come to the conclusion that despite my happy clapping we really aren't very good. The division is poor and in it we are better than most. The football however is boring and littered with poor control and poor passing. It's as much to do with the players as it is the manager. Oh well, we are where we are. 

Yes, I was thinking the same. As the gloom merchants say there is a bit too much hoofing and outbreaks of head tennis but quality of football ? Surely a big chunk of quality football isn’t about tactics and set up .. it has to be about how players control a ball, pass the ball, beat a man, tackle cleanly, read the game as individuals.

We are slipping up because the consistency of quality in individual play isn’t there . That isn’t about effort or coaching it’s about skill level.

Anyway, anyone want to talk about the good and bad bits about the game ? Individual performances ?
 

Or is this just the usual polarised Warne is a clown, Bradley is a liability, recruitment is rubbish, Sibley should play for England, Collins is a donkey, Ipswich were better than us. Etc etc etc ? 
 

for me, I had big hopes for Ward but he seems to have self doubt, doesn’t instinctively seek front foot which he is undoubtedly capable, thought Sibs did a couple of stormingly good tackles then spoilt it giving the ball away and being too lightweight. Back line did well, major blooper apart. Adams is a machine that bites, Collo just never gives up and gives everything and is effective. NML full of fight but carrying that foot injury took his edge away. Birdy looks much freer with Adams behind him. Not moaning about the ref except as far as his lack of interest in wrestling 

1 hour ago, NegativeCreep said:

Today was pathetically bad. The quality of football was absolutely dross.

If Warne gets us up the chances of him keeping us up are zero in my opinion.

I look at what Ipswich did last season and are doing this season and we're a million miles away from what we "could be".

Bottom line is the football isn't good enough, I can accept poor results if we're playing the right way but the football is awful so draws like today become completely unacceptable.

Very impressed with your chosen forum name. Suits you admirably 

While driving to the ground I got the biggest bird poo ever land splat on my screen. I wasn’t going to risk a “this is a sign” comment. Looks like I was right. It wasn’t. The lucky scarf from last week failed as did resolutely sticking to the same turn style. If we are going up it isn’t going to be via mystic portents.

Meh game, didn’t create enough. Momentary lack of concentration cost us. They were speedy and worked hard, we were ok but didn’t create enough. We were the better side but cracks are there and we need options. React against Exeter and all will be well.

They were a bit keen on the man handling and ref was less than helpful. 45 points up for grabs and no one behind us made any ground. Adams looks the business, he will make a difference. 

11 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

Don't agree with any of that, Dave. I think it's just a polite way of saying they're massive units and this will be a battle (read - they will probably kick us a lot). From what I recall of them, he's right. Wouldn't Adams start if that's the case?

Also, I don't get what 'bleating' you heard either. I've watched the video and he doesn't appear to have complained about anything. 

🤣 Exactly my thoughts. 
 

Manager Translate Ap =

“They will be resolute” = Dirty

”Passionate” = “work hard and are a bit dirty”

“ I know Their manager and what he installs” = Dirty feckers

”They will have a game plan” = They will probably be dirty

”We just have play our game” = Lads, work hard, you’re better, you can win this easy if you remember they are dirty

I think 352 pretty much what @Ghost of Clough suggested. NML bench, undecided who’s on the flanks and who’s supporting JC. 

Wilson, Sibs, Barks as options / alternatives

But will he surprise us and throw Tommo and Fornah in the mix ? Unlikely but possible 

6 hours ago, May Contain Nuts said:

If we're shopping in the bargain basement then most of our competitors must be shopping at the landfill.

All true, and yes it does seem as if we haven’t “attracted” that many movers and shakers. There are 4 questions  I’d like an answer to.

1) how much money have other league 1 clubs actually spent up front - I bet not very much ! And how does that compare to our general activity and “budget” ? 

2) what is our clubs salary ceiling and how does it compare with our peers 

3) Assuming (2) is competitive, bar the shouting , I would think players would be hammering our door down but they don’t seem to be .. so why is that ? Warne’s style ? Their own inflated egos ? Legacy salaries from more prosperous times that agents think they can get ? (I reckon it’s this )

4) what is the substance of the EFL business plan, how does it effect our ability to deal and how long will it be in force ? 

On 04/02/2024 at 21:31, Ghost of Clough said:

Since Shrewsbury are one of the most physical sides in the league, 3 at the back will remain. It'll also be good practice for Stevenage the following week. If Mendez-Laing is out, we'll habe limited attacking options - I expect us to start with a front 2 again, then bring Wilson and Thompson on to make a boxed midfield.

My prediction for Warne's team:

Vickers

Nelson   Bradley   Cashin

Ward   Bird   Adams   Hourihane   Elder

Barkhuizen

Collins

 

Subs: Wildsmith, Nyambe, Sibley, Smith, Thompson, Wilson, Blackett-Taylor

Barks is interesting, instinctive footballer with a reasonable touch, still got some pace in him but runs out of legs sometimes. Wonder if he’ll play that set up but give Sibs another chance at 10 ? Or use sibs as impact ? And what about Tommo ? Even without NML we do have some alternatives.

25 minutes ago, sage said:

it isn't good either. You need a good passer in there, not just worker ants, it solves our previous problem but creates another

It’s a good point but Tommo is still learning, has room to grow and Fornah has real potential in my mind. Not seen enough to be certain but there is the makings of a more mobile ball winning midfield. But yes .. you do get the feeling you need a magic moment player in the mix if we are to prosper. 

On 04/02/2024 at 11:23, CodnorRam said:

Will he be available to buy? If he carries on like he did yesterday he may be a fan favourite. 

Really looking forward to seeing him at the weekend. If his physical presence means the others can get forward then it’s all to the good. 

10 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Abigail’s Party was great too, saw it when it came out on tv plus the theatre production 😊

It was hillarious 🍻

That was funny. I think we just did a “The General is going to a dance, send 3 and fourpence”