Carl Sagan

On 10/10/2021 at 12:17, Ravabeerbelly said:

Not happening. You simply can’t do that without the player agreeing. It’s a legally binding contract that can only be terminated by mutual consent, no matter whether you offer to pay it up on full or not. 

If your club doesn't want you and you have the chance to have your contract paid up through to the end so you can go to a team where you would be wanted, get game time, and get paid even more money on top, you'd be bonkers not to. 

14 hours ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

No one was saying that. And I’m pretty sure you’ll find no one can just terminate a contract other than gross misconduct.

It was shorthand for paying up their contracts and releasing them, which happens frequently in football. Which would free up numbers to allow new players to come in who would be starters. 

Obviously it's sickening to consider it, but if the EFL won't allow us to add numbers to the squad, the only option is to lose those players not contributing to make room for others who would. Brutal.

But a lot needs to happen first before that can even be considered. 

1 hour ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

It's the future. Folk will resist it, but some form of renewable energy will ultimately have to supersede coal, oil and gas, there's no getting away from it. 

A couple of observations would be that 415 watt panels cost what 180 watt boards did just a few years back. Likewise, inverters and battery storage costs are plummeting as they become more ubiquitous. As some have pointed out, FITs (feed in tariffs) are a thing of the past, but I'd say if you look at TCO, we back in a place where solar makes sense, especially in countries where sunlight is abundant and in instances where the panels can be positioned for maximum efficiency. Bear in mind too that battery systems can also be set to draw and store electricity from the grid during off-peak hours for deployment during the higher cost hours; it's not all about the panels! 

A few words to the wise though... Do not scrimp! If you do go down the renewables route, buy the best panels you can (and the highest capacity) and don't scrimp on the other key components. And don't buy from an installer... Go straight to the distributors who will not dry-hump you on the hardware costs and will install more cheaply than third parties too. 

All sounds good advice. It's wrong and very short-sighted that feed-in tariffs are a thing of the past. And ultimately it's because of the privatization of our energy. The future is going to be communities taking over their own power generation through local smart grids.

11 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Williams would count towards the current quota as soon as he signs a professional contract.

Implications would depend on the terms of the embargo at the time... Hard (23 man squad as we currently have it) or soft (U21s don't count).

If hard (most likely option for the time being), we have 2 options.

1. Sell to buy

2. Go all in on the youngsters and play them when needed.

Excluding Bielik... Marshall, McDonald, JBrown, Watson and Hutchinson have contributed the least so far this season and would likely be the ones at the front of the queue to be offloaded if we do want to recruit.

Option 2 becomes reality when we're almost certainly going down to L1, but we'd end up selling a few more senior players first anyway.

U23s not currently part of the quota, and closest to the first team are: Cashin and LThompson (and Wilson when he recovers from injury). For us to use Cashin, it means Jagielika, Davies, Stesrman, Forsyth and Bielik are all out injured. For LThompson to come in, 3 of Bird, Knight, Shinnie and Bielik would have to be injured. Even then we still have Morrison, Watson and Hutchinson who could do a job in the DM/CM position.

Thanks for the run down. Presumably in this case it means for the foreseeable future at the club, Williams *cannot* sign a professional contract. Which has implications for him and the club.

We don't quite have a hard 23 embargo right now. It's a hard 25 because of the injuries to Bielik and CKR, but they will be fit to play around the opening of the window and I don't see the EFL extending that anyone, meaning we'll lose Jagielka and Baldock unless we've sold at least 2 other players. My guess is Bielik and Jozwiak will be first to leave if administrators are still in place.

January will come round quickly. Will it be clear at that point if the embargo will persist? If there is the possibility a hard embargo will last through summer 22 it means none of the U23s can play first team football so surely some such as Cashin and Thompson will look too move on. If we have new owners through the door and there's a chance of keeping us up, as you say Marshall, McDonald, JBrown, Watson and Hutchinson would all be likely have contracts terminated to bring in new players if we can, but the EFL is insisting on approving the business plan so likely will not let us buy, even if the money is there. It's such a mess.

What are the implications for the Academy that none of the U23 team currently has any prospect of progressing to the first team? And I wonder at what stage does Dylan Williams cease to be eligible for matches?

Will they be prepared to wait and bide their time, or are we expecting a mass exodus in January? My understanding from the EFL pronouncements is that they intend to do their darnedest to keep us under embargo until the end of next season, which would mean no one can come through until after then. It seems to me to be part of the EFL's plan to destroy the club by destroying the Academy pipeline.

A terrible time for you Maydrakin. I'm so sorry to hear the story about the season ticket, but more sorry to hear you dad died. Huge sympathies.

It's a terrible time for the club too. We know it was abandoned for months, the ticket office closed, no one there, and is now in administration fighting for its survival. It's obviously a case of crossed wires, people overworked or not being there to do the job. And now more have been made redundant. Plus it's probably illegal for the administrators to reimburse you because their obligation is to other creditors first.

It's all crap right now, and a thousand times more so for you. I'm sorry it's been handled badly by the club earlier on, and now it's out of the hands of anyone who's left or come in. I understand you getting the frustrations off your chest, but I don't think there can be any progress at this stage until after the club has been sold. Hoping it is. And even then, who knows? Let's hope any new owners want Derby to be a strong community-embedded club again.

14 hours ago, angieram said:

Plus an ongoing embargo and EFL hardballing us over an "acceptable business plan". 

Don't expect the new owner will be able to do anything other than keep us ticking over to start with. We want them in quick, before we lose our young players. Boy, are we going to need them.

I was appalled to read the EFL response to the Ramstrust questions. @San Fran Van Ramsarticulated some of it, but this determination to see Derby under new owners sent down the leagues irrespective of the integrity of the competition they run, is just vindictive.

But what was worse for me was the wanton disregard for the welfare of our academy players who aren't allowed to be in the squad. Their plan can only be to try to destroy the Derby Academy by forcing the good prospects to leave in search of first team football. The fair and equitable solution would have been to establish a cutoff at the end of the transfer window and allow academy players to join the first team in addition to this. 

Again, I find it extraordinary that we have heard nothing from the PFA about this.

On 02/10/2021 at 09:30, Bob The Badger said:

I'm a bit obsessed with anything on social psychology, especially cognitive biases, why we make dumb decisions and how we are influenced by outside forces, usually without knowing it.

I read Influence by Robert Cialdini a decade or more ago and saw there was an updated version.

Even though the original was brilliant I wasn't too bothered about the newer version until I heard Cialdini being interviewed and realised it had been extended and updated with a lot of new research.

Utterly brilliant. So much so, that I bought the hard copy as well as the audible version to take notes in.

If more people learned why and how we make decisions and how marketers and authority figures (like Governments for example) manipulate that process to guide people to make decisions in their favour, then the less we'd all get conned.

Most people think they make logical decisions, but if you don't know what influenced that process it's literally impossible to know that.

This book will make anybody smarter, if perhaps a tad more cynical.

I used to read a LOT of fiction, but rarely do these days and with the help of Audible get through about a book per week, so always interested in suggestions.

I publish nonfiction books, so a great thread obviously!

Cognitive bias isn't really my area, even though it's interesting, but Robin Hanson is one of my authors so I started The Elephant in the Brain off, but knew I was leaving the company so made sure he had a good editor to take it over: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elephant_in_the_Brain. His Overcoming Bias blog and the partner site Less Wrong by Eliezer Yudkowsky are also well worth a deep dive.

I still remember being in the large kitchen at work, on my own, and looking over to the kettle. As I watched, the switch at the base of the kettle moved down (a couple of centimetres) entirely on its own, turning the kettle on. I was freaked out at the time, but I guess there was some sort of short circuit that caused it.

That said I can seem to have an affect on electrical equipment around me. For instance, when I'm in an emotional state, streetlights often go off as I pass underneath them while walking up a road. That's something calling "sliding" which I find interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_light_interference_phenomenon

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

There is no point him trying to sue the club because if we are in Administration he would have nothing to gain. Even if he could prove a case - highly unlikely - and won, any award would rank as an unsecured creditor and get 2/3 of 3/4 of 5/8 of FA. If as part of Administration the club was bought, it would be bought by a different entity, and the entity to which Gibson would be suing would cease to exist.

If he should proceed with any case I cannot see the EFL would permit it under their membership rules. There would be anarchy. Would the door be open for us to sue QPR for instance.

IMO it is no more than sabre rattling, and Gibson trying to look hard to pacify his own entitled fanbase who are fed up with Championship football and Warnock’s brand of entertainment. The bloke is an irrelevance and we should ignore him, rather than give him the time and profile he seeks.

Yet according to @angieram the administrators have had to engage lawyers at present to fight the case, even though the legal action cannot be pursued during administration, because we need a clear slate to be able to come out of admin.

So Gibson is both adding additional costs to Derby during this time of dire peril, and by taking the action he is intentionally making it more difficult for Derby to exit administration. That sounds to me that he is pursuing a vendetta with the purpose of liquidating Derby County.

If you're waiting for the EFL to step in and help us, you're going to be waiting a long time. If they were minded to they could have done this already, but clearly have chosen not to act. Hence the administrators have had to act and take money out of the club instead.

On 05/10/2021 at 08:49, angieram said:

This snippet from last night's meeting really pisses me off: 

"They are also fighting legal charges – for the Middlesbrough charge, lawyers has already been engaged  on both sides."

If this doesn't demonstrate Steve Gibson's malicious nature, nothing does.

What an absolute waste of administrators' time and the club's money. Talk about kick a man when he's down! 

On 05/10/2021 at 19:15, angieram said:

Derby County, although apparently he can't sue us while we are in administration. Silver lining? 

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

Why is this thread still running. Steve Gibson is not going to sue the Club. It’s just total title tattle. 

I started the thread after reading a piece which said "Teesside Live understands Boro are indeed continuing to pursue their action against the Rams." And Angie seemed to confirm this with minutes from Ramstrust (I think). But then she adds (I don't know where thus comes from) that Gibson can't sue us if in administration, but if that were the case I don't understand why we would have engaged lawyers.

But none of this suggests he's not suing the club. It seems pretty clear that he is. Why do you think otherwise?

12 hours ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

One of my favourites books and loved the films. I watched the trailer and was kind of unsure about going back to watch a remake as sometimes despite better special effects, camera shots, sound it does not have the magic of the the first time. I think you convinced me, thanks.

At the premiere Denis Villeneuve said his dream has been to film Dune since he was a teenager, when he started doing drawings and the designs for it. He was unhappy with the David Lynch adaptation for the times it deviated from the book. I've not read the book for a very long time, but I recognized some lines. My take is it's a love letter to the source material and very true to it. But it is kind of unsatisfactory that it ends halfway with no prospect (yet) of finishing it.

11 hours ago, alexxxxx said:

I'm surprised at how this film has been released.. Seems like it's been released in non-English speaking countries prior to US and UK?

It's such an interesting question. Originally the film was due out in the UK before now, but was put back to late October. My guess at the time was they were going to make a huge deal of it at the London Film Festival, which starts tomorrow. Ideally as the opening Gala film, but maybe the closing film instead. Then the festival programme was released and it was nowhere to be found, but then they announced last night's incredibly low-key UK premiere.

But because Villeneuve was telling us that Part Two's future is uncertain and depends on receipts, my guess is it's the distribution team trying to give it every chance to make a big impact in the opening couple of weekends (which will define the film's future in terms of Hollywood perceptions). And the reason for that is likely Bond. After Covid, the entirety of the UK industry is pinning its hopes on Bond to get people back into cinemas. The Odeon Leicester Square, always the centre of the London Film Festival, is not partaking this year as every minute is booked out to show Bond instead. I presume the Dune team realized they'd be releasing at almost exactly the same time and would not have the screens to make an impact, so have stepped back to wait. Pure guesswork on my part, but it does make sense. 

PS I have no interest whatsoever in going to see 007!

Dune tonight. It's beautiful and epic. As it's Denis Villeneuve it doesn't rush, so something I hadn't realized was it's only Part One. It's clearly a labour of love for the director and very true to the book (at least as far as I cold remember), but Edith Bowman (who was doing the Q&A) asked Villeneuve about Part Two and he replied that Warner Bros was waiting to see the receipts. And I wonder if it isn't too slow for a modern audience, rather like how some found Blade Runner 2049.

I'd give it 8/10 as I felt there was a little too much exposition at the start before it got going. Out in cinemas 21st October.

West Brom fan. When The Athletic launched they hired some high-profile reporters who were fans of the teams they covered whereas we got Ryan Conway. Is it better for a correspondent to also love the club, or would people rather they had no connection with us until given the job?

6 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

I'm not really that suprised. Great defensive record and dire attacking record isn't so much down to the players but down to the way we play. This isn't a criticism of Wayne Rooney, it's arguably the only way we can succeed with our current side.

We sit deep. Our CBs are brilliant in the air and read the game well. We rarely look like conceding from crosses or from balls over the top considering our shape.

We've also only fallen behind three times this season. Peterborough and Sheffield United in the last minute, and obviously Birmingham. We've only really 'chased the game' once this season, hence the only time we've been suckered on the counter attack and found ourselves out of shape was for Brum's second.

I fear for us if we go behind. I can't see us getting back into many games.

That's why it's imperative we don't make any silly mistakes at the back like we did for Brum's first. 

But if we can get our noses infront more often than not, we stand a real chance.

That's a good summary. I was quite struck when viewing the Reading forum after we beat them, and someone said words to the effect "you can see why they don't concede many or score many".

My recollection is that the beginning of the end for Jim Smith's Derby came after a heavy defeat, whereupon he decided he had no place for Francesco Baiano and would replace him with Daryl Powell. Shutting up shop can seem the right thing to do, but it can also be the recipe for a slow and painful demise.

Rooney is in such a bind but I think if we're to survive he has to be a little more trusting of some players and a little less afraid, and release the shackles enough to give us more of a chance  of scoring. 

2 hours ago, angieram said:

For logistical reasons I need these tickets to be on sale soon. Any ideas when?

It's the next match. Why aren't they on sale now? That's madness.

The bottom line is of course that Rooney has been dealt a rough hand and he has done well so far this campaign with what he's got. After laying the foundations, can he build on top of it?

When I think back to the McClaren seasons we played 4-3-3 which was effectively 4-1-2-3 with a single central defensive midfielder so you could look at it as 5 defensive players and 5 attacking players. The current formation of 4-2-3-1 means 6 defensive players and 4 attacking players. Our most likely scorer in any game would be Kazim-Richards but with him out injured, the most likely scorers in the squad seem to me to be Stretton and Sibley. And if given the chance, they would combine well together so be more than the sum of their individual parts. But even if playing one or both of them in the team, we still only have 4 attacking players all told. 

Is there a way of playing 5 forward-thinking players and remaining almost as solid at the back? It could be argued when Bielik is fit he gives us the capability to do that in a McClaren-style 4-3-3, but I think when Bielik is fit he will leave the club because of our financial/administration woes. However, I do think it is a role Ravel could play well. I don't think Rooney will do that.

When you look at our attacking assets (realistically Baldock, Stretton, Jozwiak, Lawrence, Ravel, Sibley) it seems to me that only Stretton and Sibley have any chance of becoming players who will always give you double figures a season. The others may chip in, but with no more than half a dozen. I think Rooney simply has to find a way of fitting Stretton and Sibley into the team if we're to score enough to stay up. 

I'm disappointed Sibley wasn't able to have a run of goals to go with his run in the team until recently. And in the last two games Rooney hasn't even used him as a sub. But he, Ravel and Shinnie are all close to suspension anyway, so hopefully he will manage another run when one of the others can't play. Football is so much about confidence. If Stretton or Sibley or hopefully both can get a break and bag a goal or two it might change not just their season but ours too. But it won't happen unless they are being played.

If Bielik becomes available for the first team before January, won't the EFL insist we cannot extend Jagielka's contract as we were given special dispensation to go above the 23 "players of professional standing" limit because of Bielik's long-term injury - but only with a 6-month contract (until Bielik was fit)?

I suspect it's a lot more complicated than this and depends on a lot of factors, but I'm just throwing this out there in case someone knows specifically what conditions have been imposed here.

14 minutes ago, Eaststander7 said:

150k signing by Nigel Clough….unbelievable value….?

Wasn't he a midfielder before he arrived? All this talk of him playing left back, centre half and left wing back - surely it's high time he proved his worth in midfield, or that £150k was a terrible riipoff! :D

Fantastic servant to the club. And amazing resilience to have come back from such crushing injuries.

A quarter of the way through the season, it must be a first for the Championship for the league leaders and the team in bottom place to have the joint best defensive records, having conceded only 8 goals in 11 games (the same as Bournemouth). Given all the constraints Rooney has been operating under, it's a remarkable stat. We reach the international break with defensive players Jagielka, Stearman and Bielik injured so it's fair to say we are down to the bare bones, but we now have two weeks to lick our wounds and recharge our batteries.

The flipside of this coin is that we are also the joint lowest scorers in the division, along with Barnsley, hitting the net only 7 times in 11 matches. Our injured strike force sees Colin Kazim-Richards and Sam Baldock sidelined, so our only fit striker today was Jack Stretton, a 20 year old rookie.

The old adage is to build from the back and Rooney has done that impressively, and has given us a great platform we can build on for the rest of the season. But do we need to carry greater attacking threat if we are to survive, even if that is at the expense of our defensive stability? If the answer is yes, how do we do that most effectively?

I think the answer needs to be yes. If we don't start scoring more goals, I expect us to go down, even with "only" a 12 point deduction.

16 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Lawrence with tunnel vision. Stretton was open for a tap-in for two of those shots.

Not seen it but this sounds the most frustrating thing. Not what a captain should do. A chance for Jack Stretton to score his first Pride Park goal on his first league start but the skipper doesn't give him the ball and the opportunity is gone. And now Stretton is off, confidence diminished.

Just now, LincsRam said:

Never seen so few comments for a match ? page 5, half way through the game

Hopefully a lot of people are at the ground.

22 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

Re Stretton and Sibley: hopefully all we will have to do is wait for substitutions.

I hope so but it was very disappointing Sibley didn't get on in the last game, when I felt we badly needed him as the team tired. Guess we'll soon see. I'd love both to get a brace in a 4-0 win to take us into the international break in style. I think our two most likely scorers.

12 minutes ago, StarterForTen said:

Caishin - or any other Derby development player for that matter - can be picked. It’s just that they would then be a player of professional standing.

I have to say I think that’s the least of our worries right now given we are in administration and outside of a transfer window. 

The EFL wants us under embargo for 2 years. We already risk losing Jagielka (and Baldock) in January as they take us to 25 players (ie 23 +2) because of the long-term injuries to CKR and Bielik. If we play Cashin we won't be allowed to extend Jagielka's contract.

I wouldn't say that's the least of our worries. It's exactly the sort of thing the manager has to think about and shows how insidious the EFL's position is, actively preventing young players coming through.

Roos on the bench, Festy on the bench. No Baldock. Jags still out.

We're getting stronger but I wish there was a way of putting Sibley in the team with Stretton as I think they link up well.

Would love it for Jack to get his first Pride Park goals today. Come on you Rams!