Jourdan

3 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Its just possible that Rooney is not in a position throw the previous owner and 32red under a bus for paying his wages?

But if he thought it would help the club moving forward, surely it would have been worth a try?

Everyone talks about the real success behind Brentford and the likes being good scouting and good recruitment.

It might have been a good place to start.

Just now, plymouthram said:

So Rooney being a novice Manager suddenly has the nounce to find a brilliant new scout.

We as fans have questioned scouting and recruitment for years.

Rooney has been at Moor Farm day in day out for almost two years.

How could he miss the need for a change?

But then again I suppose it’s the same people who thought it was a good idea to bring him to the Championship on £70-100k a week, so he wouldn’t want to throw them under the bus, would he?

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

Because last season is done. We had a poor end to the season. When discussing whether Rooney has done a good job or not this season, last season is entirely irrelevant. I thought he was poor last season. I feel he's doing much better now. You're intentionally skewing the numbers, because realistically it's well documented on here you never wanted Rooney or were ever prepared to give him a chance. 

People like myself and @Jimbo Ram have acknowledged there has been an improvement.

Is 3 wins from 16 really ‘much better’ though?

If it was an experienced manager like Hughton or McCarthy in charge and they had overseen a similar run, it would be called for what it is.

3 minutes ago, Crewton said:

How exactly could he have "brought his own people in"? With what, monopoly money? He brought 5 players in on loan in January : before the end of the season, they'd all gone back to their clubs injured bar Roberts. We all know what happened over the summer.

What exactly has he had the chance to do that could possibly have been on his wish list? 

A new scout is beyond the realms of possibility, is it?

Why is Rooney the ‘magnet’ for investors?

The name, the brand doesn’t matter if he hasn’t got the skills to back it up.

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

You mean like he wanted to keep Given?

 

Given was a Lampard recruit...

If Rooney was as switched on as people suggest, he would have brought in his own people when he was offered the job permanently.

We’re always bemoaning the lack of a goalscorer.

How did Luton find Adebayo? How did Blackpool find Yates and Lavery? How did Swansea find Piroe?

Personally I think coaching is the biggest issue but it has to be said that our scouting and recruitment is very uninspiring, restrictions or not.

Of course we are not down.

How can we be down with 30 games to play and 90 points to play for, or even 81 if you include an incoming points deduction?

We have ten games in the next nine weeks to build a platform for the second half of the season.

This is where Rooney sinks or swims.

Obviously nothing will change while we are in administration.

But Rooney’s hopes of staying in situ with a new ownership in place look to be receding by the game.

We have a very tough run through November and December.

The way things are trending, we might not win another game in 2021.

Blackpool at home, maybe?

The worry for me is that when we hit a difficult spell, Rooney struggles to remedy the situation.

Six games without a win now. Performances on the downturn. It could be a very long winter.

Come on guys, don’t be so down in the dumps.

Rooney has the hardest job in English football. You can’t expect us to compete with Barnsley.

We scored a goal. We ran around a little. Surely that’s enough?

25 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Blackpool, Coventry and Luton have amongst the smallest budgets in the division, that's true, but they've been able to build and develop their squads without interference from the EFL. 

And I'm sorry, but your opinion that the Forest job was equally unappealing is laughable. You seem unable to comprehend the debilitating effect of the restrictions that Rooney is operating under. Your obviously in a very entrenched position and so I see no point in debating this with you further. 

Why is it laughable? Forest were bottom of the league when Hughton left. They had won 1 in 13 league games dating back to April, losing 8 of those. Poor, negative, flaccid football had been a feature. Morale was on the floor and disgruntlement rife, and a previously accomplished manager at this level found his reputation very much damaged. I am not seeing the appeal yet, are you?

On the face of it, yes, a big club, but with question marks over the owner, the transfer strategy and the size and make up of the squad, it can’t have been an easy sell.

I can comprehend very well the restrictions Rooney is and has been working under. Perhaps we just have different ideas on just how debilitating they are.

Entrenched? Me? No. It just takes more to impress me than 4 wins in 30.

21 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Not that he would even be considered a top 10 candidate but Rooney has been linked by the media with Newcastle & their fans (whilst not keen) have acknowkedged he's done a good job here & why he has been linked. On that basis alone, I think he could get a decent gig elsewhere.

Re winning football...the bookies were adamant we were finishing bottom well before we went into administration. The fact we could potentially be off the bottom in 48 hours even with 12 points taken off is well ahead of general expectation.

I know you're unlikely ever to be convinced by him & I respect that. We were on the same side of the argument 6-9 months ago but character in adversity is one of the biggest things I respect in life & Rooney has shown that in spades. Maybe I'm naive in thinking there isnt an angle but just want to hang onto something positive whilst we're neck deep in this mess.

On his links to Newcastle and on our relegation in waiting, it really depends on how seriously you take media reports and bookies’ odds.

Was his link to Newcastle a genuine and serious one? It’s hard to say. Were we doomed from the start? It’s not really conclusive.

We have had the luxury of dropping 28 points on top of our deduction and still finding ourselves with a reasonable shot at survival. That suggests the quality of this league was always going to present opportunities.

It’s not that I am unconvinced by Rooney. I am desperate for him to do well and prove me wrong. I just think an experienced manager would be a better fit and reap more rewards.

We can all accept there has been improvement from the last third of the previous season and we can all see Rooney has done some good. But will it be enough?

I just think it will take more than 3 wins in 15 to close the door on the idea that Rooney is the best and the right man for the job.

3 minutes ago, Crewton said:

None of those clubs are operating under a "soft" embargo, let alone the "nads-in-a-vice" embargo that we are. They've all been free to extend players contracts, pay their players what they're able, sign players and not have to motivate players under the cloud of administration and potential points deductions. Huddersfield still receive parachute payments. 

There is no other manager in English professional football operating under the constraints that Rooney is and I doubt there are many who would volunteer for the job right now. 

They might not be in an embargo, but they are amongst some of the more financially disadvantaged clubs in the division.

Three of those clubs have recently been in League One and largely have squads built in those divisions and the budgets to match. Huddersfield have also cut their cloth massively too. So are the constraints really that bad? 

People carry on like Rooney has the hardest job in football right now. I think it’s a myth that no-one else would entertain the job if it became available.

Look at Forest. That should have been an equally unappealing job. On the back of two play off runs and Premier League interest, Steve Cooper went there.

16 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Best interests to stay at a club that wasn't able to sign players for most of the summer, had a chairman that refused to communicate with him, couldn't even use his own youth players & then suffer a 12 point deduction for decisions taken elsewhere?

No, I dont think that stands up to scrutiny.

Re new owners, Rooney would be a key reason why they'd be minded to look at Derby as an investment. Therefore its unlikely any new owner would be looking to replace Rooney for some time.

As for the fans, yes some have short memories but quite frankly if fans demand loyalty from their managers & players, they should show it in reverse. Incidentally, I dont think we're anywhere near a 'playing crisis'...just talking hypothetically.

We are in a difficult spot indeed. Maybe for a manager with experience, qualifications and a track record, my view wouldn’t really stand up to scrutiny.

But for Rooney?

He got the job without even having the necessary coaching badges. He has no track record to speak of. He would still be considered a massive risk by almost one and all, so he very much needs this job to make his mark.

He has done some good but enough to get the attention of a club in a more favourable position? I am not sure. Not when you have clubs like Blackpool, Coventry, Huddersfield and Luton beating the odds.

Rooney might be key to attracting investors, he might not. We really don’t know with any certainty. But I think it’s fair to say a winning football team is more attractive than glorious failure with a high profile manager.

Fans are loyal to a successful project. Rooney’s stock will only hold firm if we show fight and spring surprises.

1 minute ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I think any criticism is very much the minority view. Rooney's loyalty to this club won't be forgotten by most & quite rightly so.

As someone who was scathing about Rooney last year, I think there's been real improvement since last season. The style of play is much better & the resilience of the team that he sends out has been borderline heroic given the appalling circumstances. And as your rightly say, his profile & reputation is actively helping to attract investors & players who wouldn't have looked at us otherwise.

Not to say he can't be criticised at all, I was there Saturday & we were pulled apart first half but those days happen. Overall the trendline suggests we're getting better. Wouldn't worry about the detractors, they'll always be around but he's going nowhere this season unless he decides he's had enough. 

Is it loyalty or is it a case that it’s been in his best interests to stay? How would it look if he had been eyeing the exit door as soon as the going gets tough?

Personally, I don’t think it’s a question of loyalty. Clubs are not knocking the door down and he’ll have to do more to convince clubs of his credentials. Keeping us up or making a very good fist of it is what will attract attention.

Rooney has done some good but retaining our Championship status is what counts.

I don’t think it’s unfathomable for the mood to turn or indeed for the owners to want their own man should the equation start to become a number cruncher.

Fans and owners alike have short memories. A manager comes in and gets us winning more regularly and Rooney will be a distant memory.

10 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

That ship has long since sailed am afraid. How on earth are the administrators now going to sanction paying Rooney off to get rid of him.

Rooney is limited in terms of his managerial evolution and is making mistakes along the way as part of his learning curve and is managing a limited group of players. That's where we're at. 

 

Of course, Rooney’s job is safe while we are in administration.

But if a takeover is on course for January, one would imagine Rooney has an eight-week audition.

He has to keep us within touching distance of safety.

I can’t imagine the new owners being overly sentimental as it’s their investment at stake and quite a financial burden they are taking on too. They are surely looking to protect their interests.

We are a far more attractive proposition if we can somehow remain in the Championship and can go again with many of our issues behind us.

Any new owner/investor will surely be desperate to stay in the Championship and so of course they will be paying close attention to Rooney’s ability to get results.

It is easy to say his job is safe under the circumstances, but this is modern football.

Three wins from 15 leaves a lot of room for improvement. It is not hard to envisage a situation where the new ownership look for a shot in the arm or to make a statement appointment if results lurch further.

They won’t want to take on a sitting duck.

Barnsley 1-0 Derby

Woodrow

Kirchner with his latest offer...

Derby 1-0 Blackburn

Morrison FRGS

2 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

What are they? What tweaks/ingenuity are you referring to? Most managers would surely have done exactly what Rooney did - throw on another defender.

Luton - scored 22. Their two top scorers have more goals than all of Derby's team put together. Huddersfield, scored 18. Coventry, scored 18. Derby, scored 10. Does that not infer they have better goalscorers? And even with that, take away our points deduction and we'd be only 2 points behind Millwall, who you refer to and who aren't exactly prolific themselves and who have a very similar record to us. 

I'm not saying there's not room for improvement, of course there is, but don't tell me that the fact we are reliant on Baldock, Stretton and Kazim for goals isn't a principal reason we're not winning games. Their lad up front last is better than all three and would definitely improve our chances. There's only so much any coach can do with players of a certain ability. 

Never forget the great Alex Ferguson quote when asked what made him a great manager: "Great players", he replied. 

Personally, I would have kept the same settled team and perhaps added Stearman into the back line in the last 15 minutes. As little disruption as possible. We weren’t chasing the game.

Do Luton, Huddersfield and Coventry have better goalscorers than us really? Or is it that their teams function better as a unit and their coaching and tactics are better at getting more out of what they have?

Now I am not saying that we have top shelf options, but it’s not as if we have plucked Lawrence, Jozwiak, Baldock and Kazim from Dog and Deer FC either.

These free scoring teams you mention are almost exclusively reliant on unproven players coming up from League 1 and 2 and in some cases lower. Many players we would overlook and turn our nose up at if given the chance.

The only notable exception I can see is Coventry’s multi million signing of Gyokeres from Brighton.

Better players needed v better coach needed? It’s the eternal debate. I think at this moment all the evidence points to better coaching being needed which would lead to better decision making on the pitch. But let’s agree to disagree.

4 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

I'm not really sure what you'd expect any manager to do about this though. Surely the only answer is better players? 

You can't blame Rooney for Morrison hanging onto the ball where there's a break on, for Shinnie backheading a ball into the path of onrushing Luton players, of Allsopp dropping a clanger. They are individual errors at moments in games. Nothing any coach can do about it. How can a coach legislate for some poor refereeing decisions?  

What Rooney can do is motivate, organise, set them up tactically. The rest, once the game starts, is on the players. We're so much better than last year with a team that is punching hard and perhaps above its weight. I don't think any manager could get more out of them at the moment than Rooney is doing. 

Genuine question, looking at last night's game, what bit of ingenuity are you referring to would have won us the game?  

I don't think the answer is necessarily better players, but better coaching and tactics that would turn a few draws into wins and show evolution from previous games. When you look at the first quarter of the season and you can pinpoint a large majority of games where we didn't get what we deserve, that tells you it's a coaching problem. A good coach would be looking for and finding solutions.

No-one is saying that we should be showing the consistency of WBA, Fulham and Bournemouth. But look at the league table. Coventry, Luton, Huddersfield and Millwall all occupy places in the top 10 of this division. Do they have significantly better players than us? Why are they making fewer errors? Why are they winning more football matches?

Of course, individual errors can happen and of course, we are working hard, showing fighting spirit, and seeing improvement from last year. However last year was abysmal and the bar couldn't have been set any lower. The only way was only ever going to be up. But to say a coach cannot do anything about what happens on the pitch is practically absolving the likes of Rooney and Rosenior of any and all responsibility. What I would say is that Rooney is getting parts right - the players look motivated, the players (on the whole) look organised, but rarely do we seem to learn from or have worked on mistakes, and rarely do we seem to have tactical nous to change a game in our favour.

To say you don't think any manager could get more out of them seems unfounded and wildly assumptive to me. We've picked up 16 points from 39 (roughly 40% of all available points). It's less than half. There is always room for improvement. History shows a manager can and does tend to come in and get more out of a group of players.

We were 2-1 up with 10 minutes to go. I am not even sure it would have taken ingenuity to close out the game, but the kind of tweaks that experienced managers know to make because they have been in this position time and time again.

Part of me wishes we were terrible and a long way from the rest of the division. It would make our situation easier to take.

Instead, I think the pride felt by many and the twice-weekly searching for crumbs of comfort will soon be replaced by genuine frustration.

Let’s be honest, if there was a year where a team could stay up even after having points deducted, I think this is the year.

This division is really poor and you look at Peterborough, Hull, Barnsley, Preston and Blackpool amongst others and can’t help but think there is more than a sliver of hope for us.

I think that’s what makes tonight feel worse. We have squandered points against genuinely beatable opposition, and not for the first time either this season.

Rooney, Rosenior and the coaching team deserve some credit, of course. They have done some good work. We are competitive, we are spirited, we are hard to beat. But how do we progress beyond that point?

For the season ahead, I felt we needed an experienced manager and even though Rooney has done a creditable job, I still harbour those feelings.

I do feel there are times where we fall into familiar traps that an experienced manager would more readily prevent. 

We concede poor goals, we waste a limited number of good chances, we rarely turn games, we squander points. Those are likely to be running themes throughout the season.

There’s no doubt that Rooney and the staff are showing heart and endeavour, but where is the little bit of know how, the little bit of ingenuity that can really impact a game? 

Maybe acceptance that this season will be a gallant effort and little more is the best medicine, but at the moment, every draw feels like a defeat.

I really do think we’ll be kicking ourselves come the end of the season at the number of missed opportunities and how close we could have actually come to pulling off the escape of all escapes.